Wing Chun and sparring - staying true to techniques

[Kung Fu Wang]

Further to that by sparring early, because begginers dont know how to move, dont have the right reflexes, strength, speed etc. They can develop bad habits, wrong reactions which end up being a set back later on when you do learn to apply it all correctly.

My believe is completely the opposite.

I had my sparring in very early stage. Our sparring was one person played offense while another person played defense. While I was playing defense, I had to

- move my head to dodge my opponent's punches.
- use footwork to control the distance.

I had learned "head dodging" and "footwork" in my sparring during the first day. I have seen many of my classmates who didn't spar early. They had built "bad habit" by "not knowing" how to

- move their head away from their opponent's punches, and
- use footwork to move their body out of their opponent's attacking path.

The funny thing was when I started to train forms, I just could not find any form that has "head dodging". Can you learn "head dodging" through solo form train? I don't think you can.

 

[obi_juan_salami]

My believe is completely the opposite.

I had my sparring in very early stage. Our sparring was one person played offense while another person played defense. While I was playing defense, I had to

- move my head to dodge my opponent's punches.
- use footwork to control the distance.

I had learned "head dodging" and "footwork" in my sparring during the first day. I have seen many of my classmates who didn't spar early. They had built "bad habit" by "not knowing" how to

- move their head away from their opponent's punches, and
- use footwork to move their body out of their opponent's attacking path.

The funny thing was when I started to train forms, I just could not find any form that has "head dodging". Can you learn "head dodging" through solo form train? I don't think you can.

Thats great that that worked for you in the art you are practicing. Im talking about wing chun

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

Thats great that that worked for you in the art you are practicing. Im talking about wing chun

WC guys also use "head dodging" and "footwork" as well. Another advantage to spar early is to emphasize that "One should not let any MA style to define how he should fight."

 

[obi_juan_salami]

WC guys also use "head dodging" and "footwork" as well.

Indeed. But developed and trained obviously using different methods we consider better for the use and practice of our particular style

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

Indeed. But developed and trained obviously using different methods we consider better for the use and practice of our particular style

The "head dodging" doesn't exist in any of those 3 WC forms. Why?

Actually, it doesn't exist in any of the CMA forms that I know (except 2 men form). In other words, you can only learn "head dodging" through sparring.

 

[obi_juan_salami]

The "head dodging" doesn't exist in any of those

 

[obi_juan_salami]

The "head dodging" doesn't exist in any of those 3 WC forms. Why?

Actually, it doesn't exist in any of the CMA forms that I know (except 2 men form). In other words, you can only learn "head dodging" through sparring.

Most Wing chun does not use "head dodging" thats why it isnt in the forms.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

Most Wing chun does not use "head dodging" thats why it isnt in the forms.

This is why the more you spar, the more you will fight like a kick-boxer. Through sparring, you will learn something that your MA system won't be able to teach you.

IMO, you (general YOU) can learn:

- head dodging,
- footwork,
- low roundhouse kick,
- hay-maker,
- ...

even if your MA system don't emphasize those.

 

[obi_juan_salami]

This is why the more you spar, the more you will fight like a kick-boxer. Through sparring, you will learn something that your MA system won't be able to teach you.

IMO, you (general YOU) can learn:

- head dodging,
- footwork,
- low roundhouse kick,
- hay-maker,
- ...

even if your MA system don't emphasize those.

Awesome of thats what you get out of it. But they are not our goals or what we consider sparring to be for

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

Awesome of thats what you get out of it. But they are not our goals or what we consider sparring to be for

What's your goal?

- To be a good general fighter, or
- To be a good WC fighter?

I can only speak for myself. I want to be a good general fighter. I don't want any MA system to tell me how I should fight. I'll use any technique, any strategy, from any MA system as long as it can help my fighting ability.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

What's your goal?

- To be a good fighter, or
- To be a good WC fighter?

I can only speak for myself. I want to be a good fighter. I don't want any MA system to tell me how I should fight.

I agree, but not everyone has that aim. Some folks want to become good at fighting with a specific system. I've met some very skilled fighters that took that route. I think it takes more effort, because of the natural limitations of one art, but if it works for them, that's fine by me.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

Some folks want to become good at fighting with a specific system.

If I want to be a good "long fist" fighter (my primary MA system), I will never be able to integrate "single leg" into my fighting. IMO, to have "style boundary" can be a physical restriction on myself. It can prevent me from growing.

I had visited my long fist teacher many years after I had learned from him. At that time, my personal interest was no longer in "long fist" any more.

I don't understand why people may want to be a good style fighter. After all, MA style is your slave. You are the true master.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

I think it takes more effort, because of the natural limitations of one art, ...

Sometime even "more effort" still cannot solve your problem. When a solution already exist in a MA system outside of your primary MA system, it makes no sense to re-invent the wheel. you should just use it. I like the concept of

- Yours can be mine.
- Mine is still mine.

 

[drop bear]

How is there even a contradiction between being good at wing chun or good at sparring?

 

[Gerry Seymour]

If I want to be a good "long fist" fighter (my primary MA system), I will never be able to integrate "single leg" into my fighting. IMO, to have "style boundary" can be a physical restriction on myself. It can prevent me from growing.

I had visited my long fist teacher many years after I had learned from him. At that time, my personal interest was no longer in "long fist" any more.

I don't understand why people may want to be a good style fighter. After all, MA style is your slave. You are the true master.

Just because it isn't your path or mine, that doesn't make it a wrong path.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

How is there even a contradiction between being good at wing chun or good at sparring?

I think it's a matter of how one views an art. If I looked at NGA as a container, then to be good at NGA (specifically), I'd need to work within the container. If I view NGA as a starting point and set of tools to build on, then being good at NGA simply means using those tools effectively (with whatever other tools I use).

 

[obi_juan_salami]

Sometime even "more effort" still cannot solve your problem. When a solution already exist in a MA system outside of your primary MA system, it makes no sense to re-invent the wheel. you should just use it. I like the concept of

- Yours can be mine.
- Mine is still mine.

Each to their own.

 

[drop bear]

I think it's a matter of how one views an art. If I looked at NGA as a container, then to be good at NGA (specifically), I'd need to work within the container. If I view NGA as a starting point and set of tools to build on, then being good at NGA simply means using those tools effectively (with whatever other tools I use).

But it is their art. They should be able to organise sparring in some manner that allows them to functionally aply it.

I mean capoeira spar. And they are as far removed from kickboxing as you can get.

 

[obi_juan_salami]

But it is their art. They should be able to organise sparring in some manner that allows them to functionally aply it.

I mean capoeira spar. And they are as far removed from kickboxing as you can get.

Wing chun does spar. Just not until later in some schools

 

[Flying Crane]

If you train to develop the principles, and recognize that techniques are principles in use, then you can do whatever you want and "style" disappears.