Doc
Senior Master
Seig said:
Thank you sir.
Thank you sir.
kelly keltner
Black Belt
thank you sirZoran said:M.C. Busman,
I've been watching your posts here and in other forums. I understand your thirst for knowledge especially in history. It's something we share so I do have some experience in this. But here is my advise if you are willing to take it.
First I would like to say, there is nothing wrong with posting resources that you find. But if you wish to learn something about history of Kenpo and the people behind it, you will not find answers in debate.
You must understand something very important. Ed Parker may be a name to you (or a historical figure), but to his old students, that was their instructor. So what that means, there is a strong bond and love there to the man, and articles such as this and trying to create a debate about it, only brings a feeling of disrespect or attack on a loved one.
As I said, I've a bit of experience in researching history. Here is the better route. Lets take this for example;
Here is the deal, debate about these types of things will not bring forward the people who really know. It will only alienate the poeple that could help you. I myself have looked into some of the Jimmy Woo/Ed Parker connection. What I did is call people. Such as Ibrao, as well as a few others. Many didn't want to talk to me at first, but I was persistant (more like a pain in the ****).
- I would call, not write, the people who would know.
- Then I would just ask questions, about what they remember what happened back then.
- The questions would always be respectfull and I will not argue, only listen and write it down.
- After which, do it again with someone else that was there and repeat as necessary.
- After you have enough information, you compare notes and see where the truth may be (if it can be found).
- If you are inclined, write your own article on the notes you took.
- Post it on some a website, and let someone else find it and argue about it.
Anyways, this is just some advise. My opinion is that the truth is important. But, you won't find it with a bulldozer, it will only bury it deeper.
kelly
Goldendragon7
Grandmaster
Zoran said:
You are so kind, and SOOOOOOOOOO Right.
:asian:
GAB
3rd Black Belt
Hi,
Zoran, I have several thoughts on what you have said.
The first thing that comes to mind is, in an open forum such as this it is good for all to see, they gain knowledge, read what people with strong opinions have to say, if they are inquisitive they go there or not.
Such as search for what your instructor was looking for.
I like all forms of Martial Arts, someone else maybe happy with just pat answers, I feel that if you are inquisitive, ask a question, even if it might not be the question or the answer people want to hear, but its still informative.
This is not the same time or place that originated the Martial Art concept, in that time and place if you were the nail that stuck up you were struck down.
You still see that in the service or real Martial Art locations.
As for people who want to give advise in a forum such as this, it is now available for all to see, that is good also.
The persons looking for the way they want to go, it may just hinge on some talk that is being presented to them and others in a well moderated forum.
I believe this is part of the the reason forums like this are very popular, again because it is well moderated, it is enjoyable to read. We think what we want, from the information that is given in each thread, and then do what you as an individual want to do with it.
This and several of the threads have brought out information, that is being presented by individuals who have written many articles, have vast knowledge in their own fields and are trying to find out information also.
John Bishop, referred to that very thing in another post, it made sense then and I am repeating it because of that.
The web has redefined how you search for information, this forum is one of the better places to gleen information. Also to give out information.
As to the old rule if you want information go to the source, where do you start?
Here and other places on the web, Google is one, Vivisimo another.
When looking on these sites they show all sorts of information, including the talks that are going on about the many subjects that are on this board.
I could and do go to librarys, I also read books, I look at videos, many things that have been out in the information sector for years. This realm is the newest and the best.
We are able to view or read all the information that is in the newspapers about the election of the president, we listen to talk shows to get information, when the debate between the two are on TV they are viewed by a lot of people, many will vote one way or the other based sole'ly on the debate.
Anyway I just thought I would throw in my oar. I believe many will look at this as an attempt to smear, while others will not.
I look at it from another angle, if the story is there, you ask about it, if it is not answered by many of the viewers, then it is probably to hot to handle.
Wait till it cools down and handle again. Go somewhere else and ask the question. Many boards, much information.
Thanks to all for participating, we don't often see this kind of horsepower.
Regards, Gary
Zoran, I have several thoughts on what you have said.
The first thing that comes to mind is, in an open forum such as this it is good for all to see, they gain knowledge, read what people with strong opinions have to say, if they are inquisitive they go there or not.
Such as search for what your instructor was looking for.
I like all forms of Martial Arts, someone else maybe happy with just pat answers, I feel that if you are inquisitive, ask a question, even if it might not be the question or the answer people want to hear, but its still informative.
This is not the same time or place that originated the Martial Art concept, in that time and place if you were the nail that stuck up you were struck down.
You still see that in the service or real Martial Art locations.
As for people who want to give advise in a forum such as this, it is now available for all to see, that is good also.
The persons looking for the way they want to go, it may just hinge on some talk that is being presented to them and others in a well moderated forum.
I believe this is part of the the reason forums like this are very popular, again because it is well moderated, it is enjoyable to read. We think what we want, from the information that is given in each thread, and then do what you as an individual want to do with it.
This and several of the threads have brought out information, that is being presented by individuals who have written many articles, have vast knowledge in their own fields and are trying to find out information also.
John Bishop, referred to that very thing in another post, it made sense then and I am repeating it because of that.
The web has redefined how you search for information, this forum is one of the better places to gleen information. Also to give out information.
As to the old rule if you want information go to the source, where do you start?
Here and other places on the web, Google is one, Vivisimo another.
When looking on these sites they show all sorts of information, including the talks that are going on about the many subjects that are on this board.
I could and do go to librarys, I also read books, I look at videos, many things that have been out in the information sector for years. This realm is the newest and the best.
We are able to view or read all the information that is in the newspapers about the election of the president, we listen to talk shows to get information, when the debate between the two are on TV they are viewed by a lot of people, many will vote one way or the other based sole'ly on the debate.
Anyway I just thought I would throw in my oar. I believe many will look at this as an attempt to smear, while others will not.
I look at it from another angle, if the story is there, you ask about it, if it is not answered by many of the viewers, then it is probably to hot to handle.
Wait till it cools down and handle again. Go somewhere else and ask the question. Many boards, much information.
Thanks to all for participating, we don't often see this kind of horsepower.
Regards, Gary
Hello Gab,
I really have no arguments on your posts. I do not argue the value of some debate and discussions on forums. I do not argue that the internet is a wealth of information for everyone to see.
My post was concerned with a better method for an individual to gain the most information that they can get. My hope was also to show the other side of the coin. We get wrapped up in our own little world so much that we forget we are dealing with people and their feelings.
I see too many posters demand information. What usually happens is a less productive argument. But if you ask nice, and are not confrontational, you may find you get more.
Again, my post was about method, not if the thread should or should not have been started. It is only advise anyways, which means you can take it or discard it.
P.S.
Thank you GD7 and Kelly Keltner.
I really have no arguments on your posts. I do not argue the value of some debate and discussions on forums. I do not argue that the internet is a wealth of information for everyone to see.
My post was concerned with a better method for an individual to gain the most information that they can get. My hope was also to show the other side of the coin. We get wrapped up in our own little world so much that we forget we are dealing with people and their feelings.
I see too many posters demand information. What usually happens is a less productive argument. But if you ask nice, and are not confrontational, you may find you get more.
Again, my post was about method, not if the thread should or should not have been started. It is only advise anyways, which means you can take it or discard it.
P.S.
Thank you GD7 and Kelly Keltner.
kelly keltner
Black Belt
you're welcome sir.Zoran said:
kelly
OP
M.C. Busman
Guest
- Thread Starter
- #47
Zoran Sevic wrote:
I would suggest the methods you mention above are most applicable to those who have been so busy yelling "B.S." and spouting their own. I know what my suspicons are, and I've backed them up with corroborating materials. I'd expect any person to do the same, and not try to formulate excuses for what they apparently cannot accomplish in this regard.
Concerning feelings. I don't believe in avoiding facts for feelings, perhaps that is where people feel conflicted by what I write. When things start to rot, and people begin to dance the avoidance dance, sometimes a bulldozer is the best way to deal with the mess.
Have A Terrific Day,
M.C. Busman
Zoran, I can appreciate the sentiment, but I'm way ahead of you. I've been at this for years in a number of regards. I have interviewed a number of people over the years. Where I don't have taped interviews that I have transcribed, I have notes I've jotted down from encounters. These include Ibrao, Parker Jr., Juchnik, Al Tracy, and a lot of people who aren't kenpo.Zoran said:M.C. Busman,
I've been watching your posts here and in other forums. I understand your thirst for knowledge especially in history. It's something we share so I do have some experience in this. But here is my advise if you are willing to take it.
First I would like to say, there is nothing wrong with posting resources that you find. But if you wish to learn something about history of Kenpo and the people behind it, you will not find answers in debate.
You must understand something very important. Ed Parker may be a name to you (or a historical figure), but to his old students, that was their instructor. So what that means, there is a strong bond and love there to the man, and articles such as this and trying to create a debate about it, only brings a feeling of disrespect or attack on a loved one.
As I said, I've a bit of experience in researching history. Here is the better route. Lets take this for example;
Here is the deal, debate about these types of things will not bring forward the people who really know. It will only alienate the poeple that could help you. I myself have looked into some of the Jimmy Woo/Ed Parker connection. What I did is call people. Such as Ibrao, as well as a few others. Many didn't want to talk to me at first, but I was persistant (more like a pain in the ****).
- I would call, not write, the people who would know.
- Then I would just ask questions, about what they remember what happened back then.
- The questions would always be respectfull and I will not argue, only listen and write it down.
- After which, do it again with someone else that was there and repeat as necessary.
- After you have enough information, you compare notes and see where the truth may be (if it can be found).
- If you are inclined, write your own article on the notes you took.
- Post it on some a website, and let someone else find it and argue about it.
Anyways, this is just some advise. My opinion is that the truth is important. But, you won't find it with a bulldozer, it will only bury it deeper.
I would suggest the methods you mention above are most applicable to those who have been so busy yelling "B.S." and spouting their own. I know what my suspicons are, and I've backed them up with corroborating materials. I'd expect any person to do the same, and not try to formulate excuses for what they apparently cannot accomplish in this regard.
Concerning feelings. I don't believe in avoiding facts for feelings, perhaps that is where people feel conflicted by what I write. When things start to rot, and people begin to dance the avoidance dance, sometimes a bulldozer is the best way to deal with the mess.
Have A Terrific Day,
M.C. Busman
kenpo3631
Black Belt
After reading all of Bushmans posts I have reached my own conclusion. As the saying goes "there are three sides to every story yours, mine, and the truth". I don't know Will Tracy nor was alive when Mr. Parker and Woo did what they did. I can tell you this, you only have ONE side of the story, and that one side seems questionable at best. Like some have mentioned before, this stuff about EKP Sr. surfaces every few years, of course after Mr. Parker's passing, and everyone gets in an uproar. If Mr. Bushman wants ONE side of the story I suggest he contact Mr. Woo himself. Unfortunately we'll never know the other half of the story because it is lost with Mr. Parker. So put it to rest and drive on with your lives. Does it really matter? At this point it is all "he said, she said".
Respectfully,
:asian:
Respectfully,
:asian:
I just got back from spending 2 days with Sijo Emperado and about 150 Kajukenbo practitioners in Visalia, Calif. I specifically talked to Sijo about some of Will and Al Tracy's kenpo history claims.
For those of you that do not know his background, Sijo Adriano D. Emperado is the most senior living Hawaiian Kenpo black belt in the world. He started training with William Chow in 1946. He was William Chow's first black belt. In 1950 he also received instructor's certification from James Mitose. During the 40's, and 50's, the Kenpo community in Hawaii was very small. They all knew each other, they all trained at each others schools, and they all had students that bouced between their schools.
I asked Sijo about a Clara Mitose/Fusae Oshita. He said that he had never seen or heard of her being a "Kenpo instructor". This was at a time when most Kenpo schools had 5-10 students. A female grandmaster or black belt would have definetely been noticed by everyone in Kenpo.
I then showed Sijo my copy of Mitose's book with the photographs of a female doing techniques. I asked Sijo if he knew who the woman was. He said "sure". "That was Mitose's girlfriend, that he was living with". I then asked Sijo, "are you sure it's not his sister?". He said "yeah, everyone knew his girlfriend". This supports the information that we had been given by another early Hawaiian Kenpo practitioner who said that the woman "was someone who worked at the recreation center where Mitose taught, and was his girlfriend".
I asked Sijo about the book itself. He said that Mitose told his black belts that they would make a "lot of money" from the book if they invested in it. He then collected money from William Chow, Thomas Young, Simeon Eli, and some others to fund the book. After the book came out Mitose went to the mainland, and none of the investors got a dime from the book sales.
For those of you that do not know his background, Sijo Adriano D. Emperado is the most senior living Hawaiian Kenpo black belt in the world. He started training with William Chow in 1946. He was William Chow's first black belt. In 1950 he also received instructor's certification from James Mitose. During the 40's, and 50's, the Kenpo community in Hawaii was very small. They all knew each other, they all trained at each others schools, and they all had students that bouced between their schools.
I asked Sijo about a Clara Mitose/Fusae Oshita. He said that he had never seen or heard of her being a "Kenpo instructor". This was at a time when most Kenpo schools had 5-10 students. A female grandmaster or black belt would have definetely been noticed by everyone in Kenpo.
I then showed Sijo my copy of Mitose's book with the photographs of a female doing techniques. I asked Sijo if he knew who the woman was. He said "sure". "That was Mitose's girlfriend, that he was living with". I then asked Sijo, "are you sure it's not his sister?". He said "yeah, everyone knew his girlfriend". This supports the information that we had been given by another early Hawaiian Kenpo practitioner who said that the woman "was someone who worked at the recreation center where Mitose taught, and was his girlfriend".
I asked Sijo about the book itself. He said that Mitose told his black belts that they would make a "lot of money" from the book if they invested in it. He then collected money from William Chow, Thomas Young, Simeon Eli, and some others to fund the book. After the book came out Mitose went to the mainland, and none of the investors got a dime from the book sales.
OP
M.C. Busman
Guest
- Thread Starter
- #53
Lansh Shoares(sp) wrote: "...If Mr. Bushman wants ONE side of the story I suggest he contact Mr. Woo himself. Unfortunately we'll never know the other half of the story because it is lost with Mr. Parker. So put it to rest and drive on with your lives. Does it really matter? At this point it is all "he said, she said".
Hi Lance
If it doesn't matter, we wouldn't be reading these threads and posting, would we?
I didn't post the link initially to promote or defend the Tracy's. Nor does the fact that Ed Parker has died mean we have to step away from the study of history. You know this. There is no good biography of Ed Parker today. Leilani's book is more of a memorial with some good personal information about the family man as she knew him (I won't stoop to calling it a puff piece, but there isn't a lot of specific info there about day-to-day life, struggles, style evolution, etc.). Ed didn't exactly leave an easy path for anyone wanting to separate the life of the actual man from the popular fantasy. This isn't remarkable.
As I wrote before, the Tracy's, Ed Parker & seniors, and others have made mistakes and sometimes intentional omissions regarding versions of history that people have known about for years (which have continued to go uncorrected--but not necessarily unchallenged). Ed left several books, a few interviews published in popular magazines, an uncompleted video series, and a number of people with different recollections. According to Huk Planas, he told a lot of different people a lot of different things. This squares with what the research I've done. You don't have to like it.
I won't change my reccomendation that people seek out and read accounts like Will Tracy's. This recommendation does not mean I am rating Will's series or any particular source as "gospel" by any means. If someone can find a specific mistake or a competing version of events, by all means...document and share with the rest of us.
Certain elements in Will Tracy's 5-part account match accounts from other reliable sources. Unfortunately for people who don't wish to change or challenge their version of "truth", as you put it, these things don't matter--and folks of such ilk should probably avoid threads which upset their ability to reason.
History is rarely a clear and easy process. It isn't a court of criminal law that requires one side prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that N = 100. Sometimes all we have are vague statements from which to draw inferences. Sometimes nothing at all. On occasion we get lucky and have a reliable piece of information or source. Every interview or conversation is one-sided, of course. It is up to each individual to look at what is known and make their own decision. I don't lie awake at night worrying about it.
As to Jimmy Woo and Ed Parker, there are a number of seniors who were around back in the day who don't mind discussing what happened between these two men--good and bad. I don't find this as interesting as how Woo's influence changed kenpo, but the fact that Woo and Parker split when they did influenced the evolution of kenpo as well. I have spoken with several old timers at length who were there, and will be speaking to and interviewing more. There are some terrific resources out there that I should be able to share in a few more months.
As an aside, anyone remember the name of James Wing Woo's pet monkey?
Have a Tolerable Monday,
M.C. Busman
Hi Lance
If it doesn't matter, we wouldn't be reading these threads and posting, would we?I didn't post the link initially to promote or defend the Tracy's. Nor does the fact that Ed Parker has died mean we have to step away from the study of history. You know this. There is no good biography of Ed Parker today. Leilani's book is more of a memorial with some good personal information about the family man as she knew him (I won't stoop to calling it a puff piece, but there isn't a lot of specific info there about day-to-day life, struggles, style evolution, etc.). Ed didn't exactly leave an easy path for anyone wanting to separate the life of the actual man from the popular fantasy. This isn't remarkable.
As I wrote before, the Tracy's, Ed Parker & seniors, and others have made mistakes and sometimes intentional omissions regarding versions of history that people have known about for years (which have continued to go uncorrected--but not necessarily unchallenged). Ed left several books, a few interviews published in popular magazines, an uncompleted video series, and a number of people with different recollections. According to Huk Planas, he told a lot of different people a lot of different things. This squares with what the research I've done. You don't have to like it.
I won't change my reccomendation that people seek out and read accounts like Will Tracy's. This recommendation does not mean I am rating Will's series or any particular source as "gospel" by any means. If someone can find a specific mistake or a competing version of events, by all means...document and share with the rest of us.
Certain elements in Will Tracy's 5-part account match accounts from other reliable sources. Unfortunately for people who don't wish to change or challenge their version of "truth", as you put it, these things don't matter--and folks of such ilk should probably avoid threads which upset their ability to reason.
History is rarely a clear and easy process. It isn't a court of criminal law that requires one side prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that N = 100. Sometimes all we have are vague statements from which to draw inferences. Sometimes nothing at all. On occasion we get lucky and have a reliable piece of information or source. Every interview or conversation is one-sided, of course. It is up to each individual to look at what is known and make their own decision. I don't lie awake at night worrying about it.
As to Jimmy Woo and Ed Parker, there are a number of seniors who were around back in the day who don't mind discussing what happened between these two men--good and bad. I don't find this as interesting as how Woo's influence changed kenpo, but the fact that Woo and Parker split when they did influenced the evolution of kenpo as well. I have spoken with several old timers at length who were there, and will be speaking to and interviewing more. There are some terrific resources out there that I should be able to share in a few more months.
As an aside, anyone remember the name of James Wing Woo's pet monkey?
Have a Tolerable Monday,
M.C. Busman
OP
M.C. Busman
Guest
- Thread Starter
- #54
John,
Thank you for reliable info from a reliable source.
It makes sense in light of something that occured to me a few months ago which fits into what you and Mr. Abregana have been working on. It might help. Or prove completely useless. I will pm you tomorrow on the KC, traffic willing.
Thank You,
M.C. Busman
Thank you for reliable info from a reliable source.
It makes sense in light of something that occured to me a few months ago which fits into what you and Mr. Abregana have been working on. It might help. Or prove completely useless. I will pm you tomorrow on the KC, traffic willing.
Thank You,
M.C. Busman
Doc
Senior Master
If you're looking for views, add this one from Furuya who also was there.
http://www.aikidocenterla.com/2004/9/22.html
Bits & Pieces - History of Aikido In Southern California:
dated 9/22/04
Today, someone directed me to another website on martial arts and I was quite surprised at some of the discussion going on. It is all rather embarrassing what people can say about each other and it makes me ashamed. So sad. However, I see that in many cases all of the facts are very inaccurately stated. I think this is because much of these topics start from gossip and heresay and there are very few records of the recent history of Aikido. In my later years, I am more nostalgic, so for prosperity, I am going to account some episodes in the history of Aikido in this country which I experienced first hand. Having been around since the very early days of Aikido in California, I was witness to much of this. I was very young at the time and very naive and much of what I saw really shocked and surprised me at the time so I do have a clear memory of it. Not because they were pleasant memories but because they were so disturbing to me. I have not discussed a lot of this - only with my most trusted assistants because it is not information which I thought good for the positive growth of Aikido. But nowadays I see this information circulating in the internet but much of it is very inaccurate. For the sake of accuracy of historical record - if this may serve any good purpose, I will record certain events here in my own website. I really hate to go onto other websites. . . . . . .
I saw a discussion about James Mitose and Aikido today and I was very disturbed about this. I was also surprised that such a topic was evn brought up. There is a discussion of some documents that Mitose received from O'Sensei which state that Mitose is awarded a 10th Dan and "responsibility" of the United States and on and on. . . . and this is followed by a long endless discussion. . . .
I was at the first several meetings attended by James Mitose when he first met Tohei Koichi in Los Angeles. Tohei was still Shihan Bucho or Chief Instructor of the Teaching Department at Hombu Dojo and still in control of the United States as his own teaching territory. This was in 1970 sometime after I returned from Hombu Dojo. In Southern California, there were only two professional instructors of Aikido, myself and the late Rod Kobayashi.
At this time, O'Sensei had just passed away and Tohei was weilding considerable political power both here and in Japan. He had great popularity in Hawaii and the West Coast at this time and visited Los Angeles quite often.
Although I was very young at the time, because I never drank, I always always assigned by Tohei as his driver. It was a custom then, after every practice and seminar, to drink. I don't drink and was the only one sober to drive him back safely from wherever he was partying. I was about 20 years old at the time. But I followed Tohei everywhere he went.
James Mitose first met Tohei Koichi at the Eigiku Restaurant in Little Tokyo. The dinner meeting was arranged by Mitose to meet Tohei whom he had heard was in Los Angeles at the time and had admired him from his reputation. This first meeting was attended by Tohei, Mitose, Rod and myself.
This was Mitose's first contact with Aikido. He had never met O'Sensei in his life and I think that Mitose had never been to Japan. I am sure that he never met O'Sensei. This was Mitose's first contact with Aikido - with Tohei at this dinner, one year after O'Sensei's passing.
Mitose wanted to meet Tohei because I think Mitose was very celebrity conscious. He introduced himself as a Methodist minister who did a great deal of fund raising and social work in the community. He had many photos he brought with him to show himself with many celebrities. This is how he impressed people and he used this tattered photo album as his credentials. Mitose was Hawaii-born and raised and his grandfather and father were kempo-karate teachers in Hawaii. He introduced himself as the 3rd generation "grandmaster of Hawaiian Kempo."
Tohei was very interested to meet Mitose because he thought that Mitose could be a source of funding for his separation from Hombu he had been planning for a long time now. After various talks and hearing of Tohei's plan, Mitose promised that he would build a five-story building on land he owned next to Disneyland in Anaheim and this could be the "new headquarters' for Aikido and Tohei's new organization. It seemed a pretty fantastic offer.
What was disturbing was that Mitose was often out of control during this meeting. He jumped up at several intervals and started to do kempo, punching and kicking in the air in the middle of the crowded restaurant between the tables. It was really surprising and appalling to me. The restaurant brought out three big plates of food which everyone was to eat from, one had tempura, one had beef teriyaki and one had something which I can't remember. Mitose rather drooled and spit on the food while he was talking so none of us could eat the food. At the time, everyone was drinking anyways, so I was the only one concerned with the condition of the comenstibles.
There were several more meetings after this at Rod's apartment which I attended. But I am sure there were other meetings which I did not attend. Because of Mitose's "generous" offer of financial aid and also the promise of this new headquarters in Amaheim, Tohei sped up his plans to separate from Hombu and it was at this time, that I announced that I was staying with Hombu and could not have any further part of this conspiracy. I dropped all contact with Tohei and Rod and do not know what happened after this. Shortly after in 1972, Tohei separated from Hombu and this was a very chaotic and sad time for the West Coast for whom Tohei was the only contact with Hombu.
Tohei had asked me my impression of Mitose after that first meeting and I told Tohei that I did not really trust him. Tohei replied to me that although he did not know him well at all, he offered so much money to his cause that he would have to treat him very well. Whatever documents Mitose had were generated by Tohei himself and not O'Sensei, I am quite sure of this.
Soon after Tohei's split, one of the biggest scandals to ever happen in the till then quiet Japanese American community was a murder of a elderly Japanese American and the attempted murder of his wife. They lived the the Crenshaw area only two blocks from Rod's apartment but one night while they were asleep, someone had broken in and tried to kill both of them in their sleep in bed with a screwdriver and a lead pipe. The husband was stabbed and knifed but fell over the body of his wife and although the wife was stabbed and beaten repeatedly, she survived.
Later, it was discovered the Mitose was embezzling monies from them in the amount of over $60,000.00 and when the daughter found out and was about to report Mitose to the police, Mitose with two of his students went to the victim's house. Mitose and one student, the driver, stayed in the car and the other student broke through the window and tried to kill them.
For the next 9 months, the murder trial was covered in the daily Japanese American newspaper, the Rafu Shimpo, so everyday I read about Mitose and it sickened me that he had such a relationship with Tohei. I should say that he never had a relationship with Hombu or O'Sensei, I must repeat again. I think anyone can tell that Mitose was a little imbalanced, I think manty were just blinded by all the money he offered. . . .not knowing that it was all stolen monies.
This trial was very shocking because no such murder had ever taken place in the Japanese-American community in Los Angeles like this and the news played up the fact the a "martial arts grandmaster" was involved in such embezzlement and murder of elderly seniors. The trial was made even more "spectacular" because the driver was also a prominent martial artist in the country (not Aikido).
Secondly, Mitose cursed and swore so much during the court proceedings, he was one of the first in a Los Angeles courtroom to ever have his mouth taped during the trial and later he was confined to a separate room separated by a glass partition because iof his bad behavior and antics during trial. Later in the proceedings, he was handcuffed because he made several attempts to smuggle in his own urine in a small bottle which he tried to dose the prosecuting attorney. He threw his urine all over the court.
I remember that the entire Japanese American community was so enraged and embarrassed and ashamed. I was angered that I had to read about this every day in our newspapers.
It was proven that he was not a Methodist priest and that much of the fund raising he did was bogus and that he had been involved in the embzzlement of monies of senior citizens for many years. Unfortunately, at this time, none of the other victims would show their faces. I think everyone was so ashamed.
I read the newspaper very carefully to make sure nothing was mentoned of his relationship with Aikido. There was even a rumour that came up in trial that he worked as an agent for the Japanese during the war while he was in Hawaii and much of the monies he embezzled from his victims in Hawaii went to the enemy. It was all very scandalous and sensationalized.
Anyways, he was convicted and spent his life in jail. He had several session to discuss his early release but these were always opposed by a community group who never wanted to see him free again.
While I was working as a book editor for a martial arts publishing company, Mitose's student wanted to republish Mitose's book on Hawaiian Kempo but I chased him out of my office.
This is such a horrible story but I set it down here just to keep the records straight for now and sometime in the future.
I want to make it very clear for the record that James Mitose never met O'Sensei. His first meeting was with Tohei and he was involved in Tohei's plan to separate from Hombu. Mitose never had anything to do with Hombu Dojo. I think the documents given to Mitose were written by Tohei, not O'Sensei, to Mitose and I think Mitose could not tell if they were geniune or not.
I deeply apologize to my readers if they are offended by such a story but I hope this will clear up many misunderstandings regarding this incident in local Aikido. I do want to see O'Sensei's name dirtied by this person. - In the website, several people expressed dismay that O'Sensei would have contact with such a person. Please know that this is untrue.
I was very saddend at this split from Hombu by Tohei. Many bad things happened which really disturbed me, but, in many ways, this firmly resolved my own conviction not to get involved in such ditry money politics and power pushing. Please learn from this very sad incident in our history.
http://www.aikidocenterla.com/2004/9/22.html
Bits & Pieces - History of Aikido In Southern California:
dated 9/22/04
Today, someone directed me to another website on martial arts and I was quite surprised at some of the discussion going on. It is all rather embarrassing what people can say about each other and it makes me ashamed. So sad. However, I see that in many cases all of the facts are very inaccurately stated. I think this is because much of these topics start from gossip and heresay and there are very few records of the recent history of Aikido. In my later years, I am more nostalgic, so for prosperity, I am going to account some episodes in the history of Aikido in this country which I experienced first hand. Having been around since the very early days of Aikido in California, I was witness to much of this. I was very young at the time and very naive and much of what I saw really shocked and surprised me at the time so I do have a clear memory of it. Not because they were pleasant memories but because they were so disturbing to me. I have not discussed a lot of this - only with my most trusted assistants because it is not information which I thought good for the positive growth of Aikido. But nowadays I see this information circulating in the internet but much of it is very inaccurate. For the sake of accuracy of historical record - if this may serve any good purpose, I will record certain events here in my own website. I really hate to go onto other websites. . . . . . .
I saw a discussion about James Mitose and Aikido today and I was very disturbed about this. I was also surprised that such a topic was evn brought up. There is a discussion of some documents that Mitose received from O'Sensei which state that Mitose is awarded a 10th Dan and "responsibility" of the United States and on and on. . . . and this is followed by a long endless discussion. . . .
I was at the first several meetings attended by James Mitose when he first met Tohei Koichi in Los Angeles. Tohei was still Shihan Bucho or Chief Instructor of the Teaching Department at Hombu Dojo and still in control of the United States as his own teaching territory. This was in 1970 sometime after I returned from Hombu Dojo. In Southern California, there were only two professional instructors of Aikido, myself and the late Rod Kobayashi.
At this time, O'Sensei had just passed away and Tohei was weilding considerable political power both here and in Japan. He had great popularity in Hawaii and the West Coast at this time and visited Los Angeles quite often.
Although I was very young at the time, because I never drank, I always always assigned by Tohei as his driver. It was a custom then, after every practice and seminar, to drink. I don't drink and was the only one sober to drive him back safely from wherever he was partying. I was about 20 years old at the time. But I followed Tohei everywhere he went.
James Mitose first met Tohei Koichi at the Eigiku Restaurant in Little Tokyo. The dinner meeting was arranged by Mitose to meet Tohei whom he had heard was in Los Angeles at the time and had admired him from his reputation. This first meeting was attended by Tohei, Mitose, Rod and myself.
This was Mitose's first contact with Aikido. He had never met O'Sensei in his life and I think that Mitose had never been to Japan. I am sure that he never met O'Sensei. This was Mitose's first contact with Aikido - with Tohei at this dinner, one year after O'Sensei's passing.
Mitose wanted to meet Tohei because I think Mitose was very celebrity conscious. He introduced himself as a Methodist minister who did a great deal of fund raising and social work in the community. He had many photos he brought with him to show himself with many celebrities. This is how he impressed people and he used this tattered photo album as his credentials. Mitose was Hawaii-born and raised and his grandfather and father were kempo-karate teachers in Hawaii. He introduced himself as the 3rd generation "grandmaster of Hawaiian Kempo."
Tohei was very interested to meet Mitose because he thought that Mitose could be a source of funding for his separation from Hombu he had been planning for a long time now. After various talks and hearing of Tohei's plan, Mitose promised that he would build a five-story building on land he owned next to Disneyland in Anaheim and this could be the "new headquarters' for Aikido and Tohei's new organization. It seemed a pretty fantastic offer.
What was disturbing was that Mitose was often out of control during this meeting. He jumped up at several intervals and started to do kempo, punching and kicking in the air in the middle of the crowded restaurant between the tables. It was really surprising and appalling to me. The restaurant brought out three big plates of food which everyone was to eat from, one had tempura, one had beef teriyaki and one had something which I can't remember. Mitose rather drooled and spit on the food while he was talking so none of us could eat the food. At the time, everyone was drinking anyways, so I was the only one concerned with the condition of the comenstibles.
There were several more meetings after this at Rod's apartment which I attended. But I am sure there were other meetings which I did not attend. Because of Mitose's "generous" offer of financial aid and also the promise of this new headquarters in Amaheim, Tohei sped up his plans to separate from Hombu and it was at this time, that I announced that I was staying with Hombu and could not have any further part of this conspiracy. I dropped all contact with Tohei and Rod and do not know what happened after this. Shortly after in 1972, Tohei separated from Hombu and this was a very chaotic and sad time for the West Coast for whom Tohei was the only contact with Hombu.
Tohei had asked me my impression of Mitose after that first meeting and I told Tohei that I did not really trust him. Tohei replied to me that although he did not know him well at all, he offered so much money to his cause that he would have to treat him very well. Whatever documents Mitose had were generated by Tohei himself and not O'Sensei, I am quite sure of this.
Soon after Tohei's split, one of the biggest scandals to ever happen in the till then quiet Japanese American community was a murder of a elderly Japanese American and the attempted murder of his wife. They lived the the Crenshaw area only two blocks from Rod's apartment but one night while they were asleep, someone had broken in and tried to kill both of them in their sleep in bed with a screwdriver and a lead pipe. The husband was stabbed and knifed but fell over the body of his wife and although the wife was stabbed and beaten repeatedly, she survived.
Later, it was discovered the Mitose was embezzling monies from them in the amount of over $60,000.00 and when the daughter found out and was about to report Mitose to the police, Mitose with two of his students went to the victim's house. Mitose and one student, the driver, stayed in the car and the other student broke through the window and tried to kill them.
For the next 9 months, the murder trial was covered in the daily Japanese American newspaper, the Rafu Shimpo, so everyday I read about Mitose and it sickened me that he had such a relationship with Tohei. I should say that he never had a relationship with Hombu or O'Sensei, I must repeat again. I think anyone can tell that Mitose was a little imbalanced, I think manty were just blinded by all the money he offered. . . .not knowing that it was all stolen monies.
This trial was very shocking because no such murder had ever taken place in the Japanese-American community in Los Angeles like this and the news played up the fact the a "martial arts grandmaster" was involved in such embezzlement and murder of elderly seniors. The trial was made even more "spectacular" because the driver was also a prominent martial artist in the country (not Aikido).
Secondly, Mitose cursed and swore so much during the court proceedings, he was one of the first in a Los Angeles courtroom to ever have his mouth taped during the trial and later he was confined to a separate room separated by a glass partition because iof his bad behavior and antics during trial. Later in the proceedings, he was handcuffed because he made several attempts to smuggle in his own urine in a small bottle which he tried to dose the prosecuting attorney. He threw his urine all over the court.
I remember that the entire Japanese American community was so enraged and embarrassed and ashamed. I was angered that I had to read about this every day in our newspapers.
It was proven that he was not a Methodist priest and that much of the fund raising he did was bogus and that he had been involved in the embzzlement of monies of senior citizens for many years. Unfortunately, at this time, none of the other victims would show their faces. I think everyone was so ashamed.
I read the newspaper very carefully to make sure nothing was mentoned of his relationship with Aikido. There was even a rumour that came up in trial that he worked as an agent for the Japanese during the war while he was in Hawaii and much of the monies he embezzled from his victims in Hawaii went to the enemy. It was all very scandalous and sensationalized.
Anyways, he was convicted and spent his life in jail. He had several session to discuss his early release but these were always opposed by a community group who never wanted to see him free again.
While I was working as a book editor for a martial arts publishing company, Mitose's student wanted to republish Mitose's book on Hawaiian Kempo but I chased him out of my office.
This is such a horrible story but I set it down here just to keep the records straight for now and sometime in the future.
I want to make it very clear for the record that James Mitose never met O'Sensei. His first meeting was with Tohei and he was involved in Tohei's plan to separate from Hombu. Mitose never had anything to do with Hombu Dojo. I think the documents given to Mitose were written by Tohei, not O'Sensei, to Mitose and I think Mitose could not tell if they were geniune or not.
I deeply apologize to my readers if they are offended by such a story but I hope this will clear up many misunderstandings regarding this incident in local Aikido. I do want to see O'Sensei's name dirtied by this person. - In the website, several people expressed dismay that O'Sensei would have contact with such a person. Please know that this is untrue.
I was very saddend at this split from Hombu by Tohei. Many bad things happened which really disturbed me, but, in many ways, this firmly resolved my own conviction not to get involved in such ditry money politics and power pushing. Please learn from this very sad incident in our history.
Thanks Doc for the resource. Puts a new perspective that I've never seen before.
It really sounds like he was waaaay out there and did not have a very firm grip on reality.
It really sounds like he was waaaay out there and did not have a very firm grip on reality.
Doc
Senior Master
I believe he was "out there," although I admit I only had the one meeting. The rest is heresay, but from people I respect like my teacher and his senior, Sijo who both had first hand information.Zoran said:
I find the perspective of those outside of Kenpo quite valuable as well because there is no "lineage" question. As an aside, the murder of the Japanese couple happened about a half mile from where I was living at the time. He worked the area because it was full of prosperous Japanese Americans. It all took place in the "hood."
As a "history" question I can see the interest, but in the American Culture "lineage" means nothing. In "do" or "way" arts it is everything. In modern practical application arts nobody cares who your teacher is/was as long as you can kick a$$, and can teach them to do the same. Bruce Lee became his own "master" after 3 years of training under Yip Man, but nobody cared.
It certainly speaks to his "credibility" and offers a possible explanation why so many wanted to disassociate themselves from him ... if in fact they were ever more than casually associated at all.
-Michael
-Michael
Doc
Senior Master
Doc said:
Those who read the above will probably notice several typos. They are not corrected because I pasted it directly from his site. Although I've known him for years I cannot presume to correct his writing, and trust you will understand what he meant.
I also received a PM regarding the area where the murders occurred. Those familiar with Los Angeles will recognize the "Crenshaw Area" as a cultural mix of Japanese American's and Black's which fit Mitose's con perfectly. Mitose used the prescense of Blacks to threaten and intimidate the victimized Japanese Americans. He did this while making disparaging remarks about Blacks behind their backs, as he promised to "teach" them as they worked for him for free as Chauffeurs and houseboys. He told people they were his "black assasins." Like I said, all of this happened essentially in my own neighborhood. "Nisei Week" celebrations used to be held across the street from my residence.
kenpo3631
Black Belt
Lansh Shoares???? Come on now, that is the worst butchering of my name I have heard in a long while. I apologize, Senor Busman, not Bushman.
Hi Lance If it doesn't matter, we wouldn't be reading these threads and posting, would we?
I only posted my two cents and then I was going to leave it alone. You know what?... it really doesn't matter. I could care less what happened between the two men. Yes it is history, but you know what? will it effect me and the way I teach my students? probably not. I don't particularly care for people putting out statements that may or may not be true about a dead man but how is this different from any other "he said, she said" situation such as this one?
Out of curiosity, I noticed that there is a lot of mention of how you have talked to "sources". You also call for people to disprove what Will Tracy wrote and what you have researched. If someone were to produce documentation to disprove something would you devulge you "sources"?
Hi Lance If it doesn't matter, we wouldn't be reading these threads and posting, would we?
I only posted my two cents and then I was going to leave it alone. You know what?... it really doesn't matter. I could care less what happened between the two men. Yes it is history, but you know what? will it effect me and the way I teach my students? probably not. I don't particularly care for people putting out statements that may or may not be true about a dead man but how is this different from any other "he said, she said" situation such as this one?
Out of curiosity, I noticed that there is a lot of mention of how you have talked to "sources". You also call for people to disprove what Will Tracy wrote and what you have researched. If someone were to produce documentation to disprove something would you devulge you "sources"?
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