Why your TKD blocks may not work

[JowGaWolf]

You don't wear shirts? A shirt collar works just as well as a lapel.

I wear a lot of t-shirts and non-collar shirts. When I do wear a shirt with a collar I tend to button down my collars. In terms of my ability to Chin Na, someone grabbing me my neck or shoulder area would probably encourage me to grab your hand and make sure that you can't remove it from my shoulder or my neck. In short, I don't have to go chasing that hand because you have just given it to me. Grabbing my jacket like a Gi would give you a better and safer option. My shirts also rip easily. The reason I know this is because I've ripped multiple shirts simply by taking them off.

Companies don't make shirts as durable as they used to. I own t-shirts that are more than 30 years old. I use them to work around the yard. No rips. You can probably choke me and drag me down the street with the old shirts. But the new shirts? They won't last.
Exhibit 1:
Shirt rip during fight.

Exhibit 2:
Ripped shirt

Case closed - Kids ripping shirts?

They just don't make high quality durable shirts anymore. Every video that I've seen that tries to address the challenge of using a T-shirt to choke someone says "bunch up the t-shirt" then they take a lot of effort to do it in a demo, that I just don't see it happening while in a street fight. The time that you take to use two hands to bunch up a t-shirt is going to put the BJJ person in danger, because the hands are no longer trying to control anything.

 

[JowGaWolf]

It won't works against $10 T shirt. You may have to dig your fingers through your opponent's collar all the way to his short sleeve.

It doesn't get any better with a $20 or $30 t-shirt. They just don't make clothing as durable as they used to. The problem with durable clothing is that it lasts. So manufacturers will make clothing that rips because they know you will go and buy another one. I have 6 ripped t-shirts, and it doesn't matter which company I buy from because I know that company is playing the same game too.

 

[dvcochran]

Correct, but for me I've found that this isn't as easy as it sounds because of timing. Kicks rise fast and most of the time the arm will be late getting their. It's safer to just move out of the way first and then strike the leg as it is returning back to it's owner. The purpose of the third video is to just show the timing because he gets the timing of the technique wrong which is why he's constantly saying that he would rather you break your arm /hand than get hit in the vital areas (kidney, groin)

When using the technique I've learn that it only works at a certain height. Stand up too tall and you'll mess up the timing because the technique is too far away to reach the kicking leg. This causes the person to lean over in an effort to reach the kick and causes a downward motion. The other thing is that you have to move sideways and out of the way of the kick first before trying to strike the leg.

As simple as the motion is for this technique I don't remember seeing this technique used by many people except for beginners and demos. I understand the concept of it because there is a nerve on the side of the shin near the ankle and if you can strike that then, it's a big advantage provided that you can time the technique correctly.


I didn't miss it, That's why I showed a guy sinking a nail with a screw driver because he CAN do that.


Thanks. I'm curious to see if you have an approach to the technique that I haven't thought of.

This is why you use 2 arms to block a roundhouse kick. it helps to disperse that impact so that one arm isn't taking all of that force. In terms of a low block, there is no option to use two arms with a low block. Force vs Force and the forearm will lose against the shin all the time, with the exception of someone with a weak kick and bad kicking technique. Assuming that most people who use a roundhouse kick in a fight are good enough to use it in a fight.

I have a hard time processing how moving the whole body out of the way of a strike low and to the front is faster than moving just one segment, the blocking arm. My arm reaches well below my groin so it is not necessary to adjust my stance. Why would I lean into an attack unless there was an offensive purpose? Leaning in to "reach" with a block makes no sense. This is something we often have to train new students not to do.
I think you expect every block to be totally debilitating which is incorrect. A low block may only slow an attack to take the sting out. If that is the case, it is important to have a counter after the block if necessary.
I use a low block all the time when sparring. There are many, many variations. For example, one of my favorites is to "help" a kick go past me. Using my low hand to block or carry the kicking motion past its target. Effective and usually knocks your opponent off balance.
I am not familiar with the nerve you mention so I cannot speak to that. I am not thinking about pressure points when doing a low block. IF you really want to get an opponents attention and slow their frontal attack, use a downward elbow on the shin a few times.
I have used two hands to block a roundhouse kick but it is not the norm as it is not necessary and you tend to set your body when you block like that. There needs to be a reason to do it.
In terms of getting out of the way of a kick, it happens much more often with a roundhouse because often times the only body part you have to move is the head.
Sure you can use two hands on a low block. Just like reinforcing a middle block, you use the non-blocking hand to reinforce the wrist/hand.
I am certain the shin bone is stronger than the Ulna in an isolated load test. But that is not the environment we use them in.

 

[JowGaWolf]

You'll be fine.

See that's what I'm talking about that "grabbing a bunch of material" stuff. Where he is grabbing is exactly where my t-shirts are ripped. So someone is going to be able to bunch up a shirt while fighting? Unless you have a "shirt bunching technique", I don't think it's going to be that easy with all of the movement that comes with fighting

 

[Hanzou]

See that's what I'm talking about that "grabbing a bunch of material" stuff. Where he is grabbing is exactly where my t-shirts are ripped. So someone is going to be able to bunch up a shirt while fighting? Unless you have a "shirt bunching technique", I don't think it's going to be that easy with all of the movement that comes with fighting

Look a little more closely; You have control over the head and the body in the closed guard before you execute the choke. And honestly, if your shirt rips to where you can't grab it in that fashion, there's hundreds of other submissions you can do instead. However, let's not be silly here, everyone's shirt isn't going to rip everytime it's grabbed.

No-gi grappling ftw!

 

[JowGaWolf]

I have a hard time processing how moving the whole body out of the way of a strike low and to the front is faster than moving just one segment, the blocking arm.

It takes a shorter distance to move the body than it does the arm. In terms of math and measurement, you arm is going to travel a longer distance to move out of the way using the feet only takes a few inches 3 or for inches can get you out of the way of most stuff or at least into a less powerful zone. Front kicks travel in one direction which makes it easier to move the body to escape the kick.

 

[JowGaWolf]

Look a little more closely; You have control over the head and the body in the closed guard before you execute the choke.

I saw one guy explaining a technique and another guy doing nothing to resist it.

 

[dvcochran]

It takes a shorter distance to move the body than it does the arm. In terms of math and measurement, you arm is going to travel a longer distance to move out of the way using the feet only takes a few inches 3 or for inches can get you out of the way of most stuff or at least into a less powerful zone. Front kicks travel in one direction which makes it easier to move the body to escape the kick.

The amount of energy to move the total body mass is so much higher it doesn't add up. If I am kicking at your abdominal area for example, 3" of movement will not get you out of the way of the attack. Not to mention the acceleration required just to get the mass moving versus the arm.

 

[JowGaWolf]

I think you expect every block to be totally debilitating which is incorrect. A low block may only slow an attack to take the sting out. If that is the case, it is important to have a counter after the block if necessary.

That's not what I think. I think blocking techniques shouldn't put you in a worse position. If that happens then my guess would be that the wrong block was used for the situation.

I use a low block all the time when sparring. There are many, many variations. For example, one of my favorites is to "help" a kick go past me. Using my low hand to block or carry the kicking motion past its target. Effective and usually knocks your opponent off balance.
I am not familiar with the nerve you mention so I cannot speak to that. I am not thinking about pressure points when doing a low block. IF you really want to get an opponents attention and slow their frontal attack, use a downward elbow on the shin a few times.
I have used two hands to block a roundhouse kick but it is not the norm as it is not necessary and you tend to set your body when you block like that. There needs to be a reason to do it.
In terms of getting out of the way of a kick, it happens much more often with a roundhouse because often times the only body part you have to move is the head.
Sure you can use two hands on a low block. Just like reinforcing a middle block, you use the non-blocking hand to reinforce the wrist/hand.
I am certain the shin bone is stronger than the Ulna in an isolated load test. But that is not the environment we use them in.

I would have to see what you are talking about in order to comment on this one, because as it stand without me knowing what you are looking at, it sounds like the complete opposite of a lot of what I do

 

[JowGaWolf]

The amount of energy to move the total body mass is so much higher it doesn't add up. If I am kicking at your abdominal area for example, 3" of movement will not get you out of the way of the attack.

It's enough for me to get out of the way. I can choose to move to the side to evade, Forward to jam, or backwards. I do it all the time. I'll put it like this. I can roll a front kick off my stomach, hook the kicking leg and throw a person backwards. I've demonstrated this multiple times giving people free front kicks to my stomach. The front kick is awesome and I love dealing it out because most people don't know how to deal with them. However, that thrill quickly vanishes when someone knows how to deal with them. For me moving my body is a better. Moving my body off center or at an angle forces the kicker to reposition when their movement is most restricted.

 

[dvcochran]

It's enough for me to get out of the way. I can choose to move to the side to evade, Forward to jam, or backwards. I do it all the time. I'll put it like this. I can roll a front kick off my stomach, hook the kicking leg and throw a person backwards. I've demonstrated this multiple times giving people free front kicks to my stomach. The front kick is awesome and I love dealing it out because most people don't know how to deal with them. However, that thrill quickly vanishes when someone knows how to deal with them. For me moving my body is a better. Moving my body off center or at an angle forces the kicker to reposition when their movement is most restricted.

All that is great and most of us do the same. That does nothing to answer how moving 3" keeps me from getting hammered in the abdomen. My head, maybe.

 

[JowGaWolf]

It takes a shorter distance to move the body than it does the arm. In terms of math and measurement, you arm is going to travel a longer distance to move out of the way using the feet only takes a few inches 3 or for inches can get you out of the way of most stuff or at least into a less powerful zone. Front kicks travel in one direction which makes it easier to move the body to escape the kick.

Whoever put disagree, would you like for me to show you the math?

If your kick will only go 2 inches into my body, then I only need to shuffle 3 inches to get out of the way. My arm will travel more than 3 inches to move from a high guard position to a low block position. It's literally math. What is the distance that a front kick travels into the body? What ever that distance is, you only need to travel 1or 2 inches more. to get out of the way. Am I the only one that knows this?

 

[JowGaWolf]

All that is great and most of us do the same. That does nothing to answer how moving 3" keeps me from getting hammered in the abdomen. My head, maybe.

Do this the next time you are in class. Take a punching and have someone to do front kicks. Allow them to hit it a few times. Then when you think you have a good idea of the distance that the kicks travels then move the pad 3 inches back right before the kick lands. Comeback to this thread and tell me what happened. As easy as it is to do this with a mit, it's easier to do it with the body because you can control the distance with your stance. If you can move your head 3 inches to get out of the way, then why don't you think it works the same way with the body my moving your feet. Just shuffle in the direction you need to move in.

 

[JowGaWolf]

One thing about me. I often don't claim things that I can't do myself or don't already have a video of me doing it. I'll see if I have a video of me shuffling only a few inches to get my body out of the way of something.

 

[JowGaWolf]

All that is great and most of us do the same. That does nothing to answer how moving 3" keeps me from getting hammered in the abdomen. My head, maybe.

Just for you. Thank goodness I didn't have to find a sparring partner for this. I'm short on sparring partners these days. lol.
Here is what I'm talking about. This one wasn't against a front kick but it shows the same concept.

You are going to see 2 things.

1. Low Block - Which for me is a strike.
2. 3 inch shuffle to get out of the way of a kick.

You actually see me get out of the way long before my "low block" reaches the knee. My "low block" is opened hand because I didn't want to strike the knee with my fist.

So before Hanzou "bashes me" just kidding. But seriously before the question of "I was already out of range comes up. Please take note of where my low "block" lands It lands on his knee. I have short arms so I'm well within range to be kicked. The second tell is that you can see the kick hit my shirt.

Now for the speed of a low block vs the speed of foot movement. My feet begin to evade long before my low block begins. I was already out of the way the way as my low block landed.

 

[JowGaWolf]

Here's a special one. It looks like a low block but I was actually trying out one of the big punches that you see me do. The Sifu of the school called time just as we were attacking so we both cut the engines off. I'm targeting the inside of that thigh because it's easier and safer to interrupt a kick from the inside. You can actually see his foot slide.

 

[skribs]

I saw one guy explaining a technique and another guy doing nothing to resist it.

That's gonna happen in most such demonstrations. There's not enough time in real time to discuss it if you do it full speed against a resisting opponent.

 

[dvcochran]

Just for you. Thank goodness I didn't have to find a sparring partner for this. I'm short on sparring partners these days. lol.
Here is what I'm talking about. This one wasn't against a front kick but it shows the same concept.

You are going to see 2 things.

1. Low Block - Which for me is a strike.
2. 3 inch shuffle to get out of the way of a kick.

You actually see me get out of the way long before my "low block" reaches the knee. My "low block" is opened hand because I didn't want to strike the knee with my fist.

So before Hanzou "bashes me" just kidding. But seriously before the question of "I was already out of range comes up. Please take note of where my low "block" lands It lands on his knee. I have short arms so I'm well within range to be kicked. The second tell is that you can see the kick hit my shirt.

Now for the speed of a low block vs the speed of foot movement. My feet begin to evade long before my low block begins. I was already out of the way the way as my low block landed.

The fact that your hand was all the way up the leg to the knee is telling me it was either performed incorrectly or way too late or both. Didn't mean that to sound rude.

 

[FriedRice]

It won't works against $10 T shirt. You may have to dig your fingers through your opponent's collar all the way to his short sleeve.

It's easy to choke someone out with his own T-shirt. That collar is strong enough to not rip. A $10 T-shirt is a pretty good one in quality.

It's not the T-shirt that's choking you, mainly.....it's mostly my forearm that cutting off the blood flow...or worse, if I go for an air choke and possibly crush your trachea.

 

[JowGaWolf]

That's gonna happen in most such demonstrations. There's not enough time in real time to discuss it if you do it full speed against a resisting opponent.

But there was nothing stopping him from explaining first, Then showing the same concept in action. It's sort of like how Kung Fu demos go. They explain, then they demo, but never go into sparring to show the application in actual use.

The only video I've seen of it actually happen was a little girl who choked out a kid using his t-shirt. But she already had him in a bad position , as in she could have probably braided his hair and he wouldn't have been able to stop that. The t-shirt choke only came when he was helpless.