Why your TKD blocks may not work

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

Just throwing this in here to add some more perspectives

Jingle Bell Tree. Personally I just rather step off center. The interesting thing is that he keeps saying that he would rather for you to break your arm.

Focusing just on the mindset of that guy in the video, why does he think people should have to choose between breaking an arm or a rib or a knee? If I thought blocking a kick made someone choose, I would be spending all my time either trying to find a different way to block a kick, or practicing kicks so that I can break their limbs before they break mine.

 

[WaterGal]

Do you find the low blocks effective against kicks? I've had difficulty with them, and have heard that it carries the risk of one of the bones (I think radius?) breaking.
@Dirty Dog do you know if there's any scientific/medical validity to that?

I use low block all the time in TKD sparring to block mid-level techinques. But IMO the key is to get in close when they go to strike, so you're taking an extended knee to your upper arm, not a foot to your forearm. If you block their foot or hand, you're taking the full brunt of their power, the part of their body with the most momentum. (Which *is* a good way to get injured.) If you can block closer to their torso - ideally at or above the knee/elbow - their hit will have much less power. That's the reason for all the "step into front stance and block" in TMA forms, I think. It also, if you're doing a sparring style that allows grabbing, puts you in a better position for that.

 

[JowGaWolf]

Focusing just on the mindset of that guy in the video, why does he think people should have to choose between breaking an arm or a rib or a knee?

I'm not sure.

For me personally, if those word came out of my mouth, then I would either assume that I don't understand the technique, that I'm using it in the wrong context, or that my timing for the technique is horrible. I would try to find a better option both for using the technique (which may or may not be used against a kick) and a better option for getting out of the way the kick.

The only time choose like that is with knife defense. I just assume I'm going to get stabbed and that I need to control how many times I get stabbed / cut, and where I get stabbed and/cut (provided that I don't have something to use as a weapon).

I use low block all the time in TKD sparring to block mid-level techinques. But IMO the key is to get in close when they go to strike, so you're taking an extended knee to your upper arm, not a foot to your forearm.

This makes sense to me and I would try this without hesitation, simply because I've willingly taken shots to my midsection from round house kicks by advancing forward while the kick is coming. The impact was significantly less to the point where I didn't bother to block. It still knocked me around a little but it impact was tolerant. It left me with 2 punching hands while my opponent couldn't punch because he was doing a round house and he couldn't retreat because he was on one leg.

If you can block closer to their torso - ideally at or above the knee/elbow - their hit will have much less power. That's the reason for all the "step into front stance and block" in TMA forms, I think. It also, if you're doing a sparring style that allows grabbing, puts you in a better position for that.

Awesome. Do you use the low block against a front kick?

 

[DaveB]

True, which is why the impetus is on the student to seek out those answers and not let dogma and style purity cloud their martial progress. If someone else already has a round peg, just take their peg, instead of trying to make your square peg fit into a round hole.

And since it's up to the student nobody can make the claim that "they" would use it if it worked.

 

[Hanzou]

And since it's up to the student nobody can make the claim that "they" would use it if it worked.

I was talking about Judo, sport wrestlers, MMA, and Bjj practitioners. We're more than happy to absorb an outside technique if it works.

If Karateka and TKDers which to use inefficient and archaic techniques, that's their business.

 

[DaveB]

You got some fight footage of Abernathy to back that up?

"Bunkai" doesn't cut the mustard. I want to see Abernathy consistently stripping Judo or Bjj grips with karate blocks while those guys are legitimately applying resistance.

Again, if that was an efficient way of grip stripping, we'd be using it in Gi grappling. We don't, and there's a good reason why we don't.

Edit:
Here, I'll help you out:

I'm supposed to back up Ian Abernathy's training lineage with fight footage?

Sorry dude, nobody cares what you want to see.

Also, when it's applied as a grip escape, which is less than other applications, it's more commonly applied as a wrist grab escape than a sleeve grab. Not sure how it fares against the sleeve.

That being said this kind of thing is trained and applied in sparring all the time in karate classes. Much like the inner and outer forearm blocks.
The two handed escapes you showed look vulnerable to face punching. Do you have any footage of them working consistently against resistance when the resistance can punch your face ?

 

[DaveB]

I was talking about Judo, sport wrestlers, MMA, and Bjj practitioners. We're more than happy to absorb an outside technique if it works.

If Karateka and TKDers which to use inefficient and archaic techniques, that's their business.

Sigh.

I think I here bullshido calling you. They say that unlike everyone else they'd love to hear more.

 

[JowGaWolf]

Also, when it's applied as a grip escape, which is less than other applications, it's more commonly applied as a wrist grab escape than a sleeve grab. Not sure how it fares against the sleeve.

This is going to be the case for a lot of things. Gi vs no Gi. Sleeves vs no Sleeves. Choking me out with a Gi is impossible simply because I don't wear a Gi. Other methods of exist. Lapel grabs won't work on me either because I don't wear things with a lapel.

Gi may translate to Coat or Jacket but I guess that depends on how strong that material is.

 

[FriedRice]

These so call blocks also don't make sense when I'm thinking about blocking a TKD kick.

Where is this guy located? I want to fight him. His "AAYY YAAA" just woke up my nephew and now the kids is crying like crazy.

 

[skribs]

I use low block all the time in TKD sparring to block mid-level techinques. But IMO the key is to get in close when they go to strike, so you're taking an extended knee to your upper arm, not a foot to your forearm. If you block their foot or hand, you're taking the full brunt of their power, the part of their body with the most momentum. (Which *is* a good way to get injured.) If you can block closer to their torso - ideally at or above the knee/elbow - their hit will have much less power. That's the reason for all the "step into front stance and block" in TMA forms, I think. It also, if you're doing a sparring style that allows grabbing, puts you in a better position for that.

I think part of the issue here is that people see these techniques, then they watch movies where the choreography is designed for form over function, then get kicked in the arm and think "that doesn't work."

This is going to be the case for a lot of things. Gi vs no Gi. Sleeves vs no Sleeves. Choking me out with a Gi is impossible simply because I don't wear a Gi. Other methods of exist. Lapel grabs won't work on me either because I don't wear things with a lapel.

What if I choke you out with my gi?

 

[Hanzou]

I'm supposed to back up Ian Abernathy's training lineage with fight footage?

Sorry dude, nobody cares what you want to see.

Yeah, why would you need to provide evidence for your wild claims right?

Also, when it's applied as a grip escape, which is less than other applications, it's more commonly applied as a wrist grab escape than a sleeve grab. Not sure how it fares against the sleeve.

That being said this kind of thing is trained and applied in sparring all the time in karate classes. Much like the inner and outer forearm blocks.
The two handed escapes you showed look vulnerable to face punching. Do you have any footage of them working consistently against resistance when the resistance can punch your face ?

LoL! How silly. Yeah, you're vulnerable to punches if you're trying to strip a grip. The goal is to get out of the grip, not to protect your face. If you want to protect your face, don't worry about the grip and protect your face until they stop punching you.

 

[Hanzou]

Lapel grabs won't work on me either because I don't wear things with a lapel.

You don't wear shirts? A shirt collar works just as well as a lapel.

 

[DaveB]

A useful drill for those interested.

 

[DaveB]

Yeah, why would you need to provide evidence for your wild claims right?



LoL! How silly. Yeah, you're vulnerable to punches if you're trying to strip a grip. The goal is to get out of the grip, not to protect your face. If you want to protect your face, don't worry about the grip and protect your face until they stop punching you.

Hmmm.

Ok.

Well most people don't stop punching until you're unconscious or dead. I think we've found bjj's fatal flaw, the old grab n punch.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

You don't wear shirts? A shirt collar works just as well as a lapel.

It won't works against $10 T shirt. You may have to dig your fingers through your opponent's collar all the way to his short sleeve.

 

[Hanzou]

A useful drill for those interested.

That's some Toshindo-level stuff right there.

Hmmm.

Ok.

Well most people don't stop punching until you're unconscious or dead. I think we've found bjj's fatal flaw, the old grab n punch.

Hey, we all can't be Karate ninjas like Abernethy.

 

[Hanzou]

It won't works against $10 T shirt. You may have to dig your fingers through your opponent's collar all the way to his short sleeve.

You'll be fine.

 

[JowGaWolf]

What if I choke you out with my gi?

That would be an option.

 

[DaveB]

That's some Toshindo-level stuff right there.



Hey, we all can't be Karate ninjas like Abernethy.

Can't all be obnoxious mma groupies either.

 

[Hanzou]

Can't all be obnoxious mma groupies either.

I'm an obnoxious Bjj groupie! Get it right please.