Why You (Probably) Should Not Carry A Weapon

[Wing Woo Gar]

I am not sure what your point is here. Statistically that probably won't happen. If he didn't use the gun responsibly. That is what the police are for.

Are you sure he wasn't just threatening you with it. Or shooting to incapacitate and not kill?

Really? This kid was in the West Side Islander gang. Which is what he yelled before shooting. I’m pretty sure he meant to shoot me. I love that you love to argue unto death. Unfortunately, your theory doesn’t amount to a hill of turds, because this happened, in real life, in front of a Taco Bell in North Long Beach in 1986 on Atlantic Ave. at around 330 pm. Let me not overstate the obvious, but there is an awful lot you don’t know about Guns, police, gangs, and violence in 1986 Los Angeles County USA.

 

[Wing Woo Gar]

People should be able to protect themselves. Kids are smaller and weaker than most adults and are therefore more vulnerable.

Should be a no brainer.

This is now officially the best quote of the thread in my opinion. My god, why did I not come to this place of enlightenment earlier. While this has been incredibly engaging, I think I’ve got some window blinds that need dusting…

 

[drop bear]

Really? This kid was in the West Side Islander gang. Which is what he yelled before shooting. I’m pretty sure he meant to shoot me. I love that you love to argue unto death. Unfortunately, your theory doesn’t amount to a hill of turds, because this happened, in real life, in front of a Taco Bell in North Long Beach in 1986 on Atlantic Ave. at around 330 pm. Let me not overstate the obvious, but there is an awful lot you don’t know about Guns, police, gangs, and violence in 1986 Los Angeles County USA.

So supporting a 13 year old gang member to wander around with a gun just because I don't want to adhere to a standard myself is what.

Irresponsible?

 

[drop bear]

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=421703695186443

 

[Buka]

We need more red, white and blue clown cars filled with firearms. They can race downhill, to hell with using the brakes. What fun would that be?

 

[Hanshi]

An old thread but it brings up some vital questions. I'll start off mentioning that for many years I carried a gun nearly every day as an LEO and police academy firearms instructor. Originally a country boy I never had a fear of wild creatures. A friend and I were once sitting on ground, both armed, when a black bear came up to us and stared at our faces for a while. Just either trying to figure us out or maybe he just wanted to say howdy. I thought it was a great experience as I've always been extremely interested in wildlife especially bears. I'd always carry whenever I was out in the wild, not for wildlife defense situations, but rather in case of a rabid animal or more likely packs of feral dogs. They were fairly common where we lived and I had run across a few over the years. A retired couple were mauled to death on the side of the road not too very far from us.

But the tragic death of one of my students on a hike sent shockwaves across the country. The tragedy made it to the tv series "60 Minutes", and another special news program a bit later on. The young lady in question was looking forward to her graduation from UGA and was a serious martial arts student. If memory serves I think she was a blue belt at the time.

Her death came at the hands of a serial killer who'd been active in NC and FL with likely 4 or more earlier murders in those two states. She was attacked with a tire tool he brandished and she fought back. She disarmed him at some point and admitted that "he was fighting for HIS life". He retrieved the weapon somehow and story gets much too gruesome for me to say more about what happened.

Being "a gun person" I couldn't help but wonder if the outcome would have been different if she'd been armed. At this point it is only speculation.

 

[GojuTommy]

An old thread but it brings up some vital questions. I'll start off mentioning that for many years I carried a gun nearly every day as an LEO and police academy firearms instructor. Originally a country boy I never had a fear of wild creatures. A friend and I were once sitting on ground, both armed, when a black bear came up to us and stared at our faces for a while. Just either trying to figure us out or maybe he just wanted to say howdy. I thought it was a great experience as I've always been extremely interested in wildlife especially bears. I'd always carry whenever I was out in the wild, not for wildlife defense situations, but rather in case of a rabid animal or more likely packs of feral dogs. They were fairly common where we lived and I had run across a few over the years. A retired couple were mauled to death on the side of the road not too very far from us.

But the tragic death of one of my students on a hike sent shockwaves across the country. The tragedy made it to the tv series "60 Minutes", and another special news program a bit later on. The young lady in question was looking forward to her graduation from UGA and was a serious martial arts student. If memory serves I think she was a blue belt at the time.

Her death came at the hands of a serial killer who'd been active in NC and FL with likely 4 or more earlier murders in those two states. She was attacked with a tire tool he brandished and she fought back. She disarmed him at some point and admitted that "he was fighting for HIS life". He retrieved the weapon somehow and story gets much too gruesome for me to say more about what happened.

Being "a gun person" I couldn't help but wonder if the outcome would have been different if she'd been armed. At this point it is only speculation.

Sucks to hear that, but to even initially disarm someone she must have been a heckin fiesty.

 

[Bill Mattocks]

Being "a gun person" I couldn't help but wonder if the outcome would have been different if she'd been armed. At this point it is only speculation.

I'm very sorry to hear about this story. It is tragic any time, but particularly more so since you knew the victim in this case. My sincere condolences.

I can easily imagine that if she were armed and trained, she might have been able to save her own life, and she'd have certainly been justified in doing so. One would indeed hope she'd have sent that attacker to his doom with a quickness.

My points from the original post, however, are still salient, I think. I'm not against people going about armed. I'm against morons going about armed. I mean people who think guns are magic wands that they wave around and then everything gets better. I mean people who can't or won't train. I mean people who don't bother to learn self-defense laws where they live, make sure they understand them, and don't feel they have the legal right (or even the obligation) to dispatch fleeing shoplifters or the person who gave them a very dirty look in a parking lot - all of which have happened.

I also think - and I still think - that most people are booger-eatin' morons. I speak very bluntly. I believe overwhelming majority of people are dumb as stumps. Some are nice, some are not nice, but few of them have the IQ to pour urine out of a boot with the instructions printed on the bottom. I have a very dim view of humanity in general.

We self-select in this forum. By simply being serious and in most cases lifelong martial artists, we belong to a subset of people who are somewhat more closely associated with creative violence than most of society. We're not the average person; if I may glorify us with the appellation intellectual. I mean that; I don't think we are morons here. But your average bubba buying butterfly knives at the local flea market, not so much.

We tend more towards this:

MRI machine causes Wisconsin woman's gun to fire, shooting her in buttocks

A newly-filed report by the Food and Drug Administration describes an incident in a Wisconsin hospital where a woman was shot in the buttocks after bringing a gun into a room with an MRI machine.

www.cbsnews.com

I also said that a major problem with going about armed is that it's a question of actually having the dedication to do it. Every day. Everywhere. I've talked to many legal carry people who readily admit they've forgotten their weapons at times, or it was too hot that day, or they were tired, etc. This leaves people without their firearm when they actually could have used it to defend themselves or others, and of course we've seen many tragic deaths caused by people leaving firearms in their vehicles where they were found and used by children.

I will stand by what I said. Most people should not arm themselves. They're too stupid. Too lazy. Too unwilling to learn when they can and can't legally defend themselves with deadly force.

But. If you're not stupid, and you have the ability to carry legally and are willing ready and able to do it in a responsible manner, I have no issue with being armed in public. By all means. You may save your own or another's life someday. I am not your enemy.

My only other point was that carrying a weapon - any weapon - means if you have to defend that as well as yourself. That might or might not be a good thing. As much as I'd hate to be killed, I'd really hate it if I was killed with my own weapon after someone took it from me.

 

[Dirty Dog]

I will stand by what I said. Most people should not arm themselves.

There are roughly 22 million people in the US with concealed carry permits. There are roughly 331 million people in the US. So the number who choose to arm themselves is really small, only about 6.5%.

 

[Bill Mattocks]

There are roughly 22 million people in the US with concealed carry permits. There are roughly 331 million people in the US. So the number who choose to arm themselves is really small, only about 6.5%.

I was not aware of that number, thanks. I think it should remain low. I wish it was lower, or at least that it didn't include people who carry their guns into the MRI machine, etc.

 

[Buka]

There are roughly 22 million people in the US with concealed carry permits. There are roughly 331 million people in the US. So the number who choose to arm themselves is really small, only about 6.5%.

Yes, but there are a staggering number of non licensed people carrying firearms.

 

[Buka]

I am not sure what your point is here. Statistically that probably won't happen. If he didn't use the gun responsibly. That is what the police are for.

Are you sure he wasn't just threatening you with it. Or shooting to incapacitate and not kill?

I am every bit as frightened of the police as I am of the criminal element in this country.
God, I so wish I was kidding.

 

[Dirty Dog]

Yes, but there are a staggering number of non licensed people carrying firearms.

I am pretty sure we're talking about legal carry, not criminals.

 

[Buka]

I am pretty sure we're talking about legal carry, not criminals.

I didn’t realize that. Gotcha.

 

[drop bear]

I am every bit as frightened of the police as I am of the criminal element in this country.
God, I so wish I was kidding.

 

[HighKick]

Yes, but there are a staggering number of non licensed people carrying firearms

There are 24 permit-less carry states, (one being your beloved Hawaii). For certain, there are criminals toting. It sure does give me piece of mind there are some good guys toting as well.

 

[Bill Mattocks]

"There are 24 permit-less carry states, (one being your beloved Hawaii). For certain, there are criminals toting. It sure does give me piece of mind there are some good guys toting as well."

Good guy doesn't always mean smart guy.

That's the problem.

 

[BaehrTKD]

I do not carry. I think most people should not carry. My reasons are NOT political, but practical. Here they are.

1) Most people can't be trusted with firearms.

Agreed.

2) A weapon you have to carry is a weapon you have to defend.

True.

3) If you draw a weapon, any confrontation is now a deadly force situation.

Potentially yes, although I choose to think of any physical confrontation (that becomes a fight) as a possible deadly force situation. You simply don't know the intentions of your attacker, whether they have hidden weapons, and whether they will keep beating you after you're down and out. If you have a weapon available to use to protect yourself, it makes sense to use it.

4) If you draw a weapon, now you have one hand to fight with.

I'm assuming you're only talking about guns when you say weapons because otherwise that makes no sense. You have two hands to fight with, one of which just got a lot more dangerous thanks to the weapon being in it.

5) If you carry, carry. The day you choose not to carry because it's too hot or you're too tired or the gun's too heavy, or a thousand other reasons, will be the day you actually do need it.

This is true. Conflict never happens on your terms. It's always when you're not ready to defend. I've been in three fights in my adult life and not once have I ever had a weapon on me or available to me for my defence.

 

[Buka]

"There are 24 permit-less carry states, (one being your beloved Hawaii). For certain, there are criminals toting. It sure does give me piece of mind there are some good guys toting as well."

Good guy doesn't always mean smart guy.

That's the problem.

What you read as passed bills in Hawaii and what actually happens concerning citizens right to carry is as different as chalk and cheese.

 

[HighKick]

What you read as passed bills in Hawaii and what actually happens concerning citizens right to carry is as different as chalk and cheese.

I am not familiar with the bills you mention. just know it is a carry state.