Why Traditional Karate Is Not Effective for Self-Defense

[TimoS]

I
So once again, why is this stupid thread still here??

Because people like you (and me) keep replying to it

 

[MaxRob]

Original Karate was a true self defense art, combined with pain conditioning and if brought back in its original form still would be an effective martial art.
problem is many of thee martial arts have been subject to change,due to our legal system, ethics etc and this has weakened their self defense effectiveness.
ok we have guns today and machine pistols, so our self defense awareness and avoidance techniques need to be A1
Yes I agree combination martial arts as in Kajukenbo have an advantage in street fighting situations, but it should to be more effective the hard line Kajukembo that was taught by Sijo Adriano Directo Emperado.
in a street fight you take pain and dish it out, if one is afraid of pain or getting hit where it hurts, you are a looser.
self defense is aimed at getting out of a life threatening situation, the more cards you have to play the better, pain conditioning is an Ace in the sleeve!

 

[RTKDCMB]

There are so many things wrong with that article it is hard to know where to start commenting on it so I'm not going to.

 

[Koshiki]

1. The One-Strike Kill

Do any Kareteka YOU know actually buy into the literal, "one-strike, one kill" thing? I can't say I've heard that outside of film, and non-martial artist friends who watch too much film...

2. Waiting for The Attack

I can't tell you how many times I've heard and said, "hit 'im while he's talking." But if you actually train Karate and know what you're doing, letting them really commit to a motion is, as I'm sure we all agree among the swiftest ways to end it.

3. On Stances

Apparently their experience of stance work consisted of sitting in horse-stance drilling hand strikes for 10 minutes at the start of every class? I doubt there is an experienced, well trained practitioner out there who advocates static stances in combat...

4. Karate as a Way Of Life

Has less to do with Karate as a way of life (And why the Heck NOT???), and more to do with, apparently no understanding of the interaction between kata, bunkai, and application. But really, why take the time to LEARN about something before you dismiss it?

5. Spirituality and Meditation

For starters, I don't have a religion or spirituality for Japanese spirituality to affront, beyond trying really hard to be good to people and animals. I'm not much of a meditator, but I've never heard of anyone meditating and then finding their own belief system compromised as a result. Golly, who'd a thunk that relaxing and de-stressing could be so harmful to your values?

6. Breaking Objects can Break You!

Oh good, I can agree with something. Yeah, breaking poorly is dangerous. Also, I've seen some pretty lousy technique break effect some pretty decent breaks. But again, if you're dedicating large segments of time to breaking, you're probably, I think, not learning karate in a traditional, self-defense-is-our-goal system...

7. The Kata Crutch

Again, they could have taken five minutes to google, "why do karateka do kata?" or even, "what is kata?" before writing this thing.

8. Karate Doesn't Prepare You for the Street

The author's school didn't mention adrenaline, obstacles, didn't train defense against rear attacks, had no pressure testing, and didn't address actual self-defense scenarios? Sounds more like a sport, and less like a martial art, to me...

As far as whether or not Karate addresses warning signs of abusive boyfriends, etc... well, no, not generally. But then, that's not really the type of self-defense karate claims to teach, either... For more day-to-day self-defense, you're better off taking a course in nutrition, getting a gym membership, and finding some counseling. But again, those things are not the sort of self-defense for which anyone primarily trains karate...

9. Karate Makes you Stiff and Rigid

Wow. Didn't realize becoming unusually flexible, strong without bulk, agile, and practicing a wide variety of smooth yet violent motions on your feet, on one foot, in the air, and on the ground made you stiff and rigid. Much better to just sit on a machine and isolate muscle groups into simple motions, if you want to be supple and lithe. Has the author ever SEEN a legitimate karateka?

10. Karate is Ineffective Against Modern Weapons

Sadly, this does seem to be true in many schools. Like, say, schools which are training martial arts for fitness, or for sport, or for performance... But wait, what about those schools that spend great amounts of time learning to avoid and control modern weapons are actually training ineffective techniques, you know, the shcools where the focus IS self-defense against contemporary threats. Gosh, I guess I better go tell them...

11. Karate Takes Too Long to Learn, and You Still Can't Fight!

...I have a few people in mind I would really like the author to test that statement with. Make that a few dozen. Ok, make that a lot of people...

12. The Apotheosis of the Master

Yeah, that's just creepy, I agree. Fortunately, the only mindset I've encountered around schools in this area treats the instructor as a friend, a teacher, and above all, someone with whom you feel comfortable, and about whom you feel positive.
​

Sounds like somebody went to a sloppy school for a few years, didn't train hard, and watched too many early Jackie Chan movies...

Ok. Sorry. Rant ended.​

 

[Tired_Yeti]

Hello, Real fighting is fast, no rules, anything goes. Karate does not teach you to bite,scratch,spit in to the eyes, and karate is not set-up to fight a real street fight, who fights like the Katas?

But it does teach you to beware, and not fight, this is the best self-defence!

Did you ever see anyone punch like they train in Karate fist to side and straight long punch? Watch all the fighters of the world and see how they punch? Notice the best guys are the same! (like boxing)

The top karate guys will hold there own,but the average karate black-belt students will most likly lose to the street fighter. They are not train to fight like the streets fights. Just my thoughts (from books and videos on street fights)...Aloha

The defanging of karate has been a long road and I think, honestly, we can blame much of it on the Japanese culture around the turn of the 20th century. As most of us already know, karate as it was formed in Okinawa in the 18th and 19th centuries was a holistic, serious, deadly fighting art. Some of the "dirty" techniques you described are found in the older katas.
Ever since the past masters tried to preserve karate by introducing it to the mainstream (Japanese culture), it was neutered into an athletic event.

So, is karate legit for the street? Well, unfortunately, that will depend on how it's learned. If you learn it from a teacher who doesn't study the bunkai from the viewpoint that it should reveal actual fighting techniques--and, thus, you just get some bizarre stances, stretches, and exercises from kata--then it won't be effective. We hear of "secret techniques" hidden in kata. The past masters who created those kata did not intend for them to be "secret". The circa WWII Japanese brought that about when they held distain for karate as being primitive, violent, and an unhealthy pastime for citizens (thus forcing the Okinawan masters of the time to dilute it into an exercise regime). We're still suffering from that today.
Kata is like the alphabet. All the letters to make all the words are in there but you don't use them all at the same time or in the order presented. You take the bits that you need and out them in the order needed for that moment.
Lots of things in karate today are just way off the mark, IMO. For example, stances. A stance is a place you should end up AFTER completing a technique. It's not a position you should put yourself in at the start of a fight. In all the real fights I've been in as an adult, I've found it best not to assume a stance for 2 reasons. 1 the stance limits your options to a degree because it puts your body in a certain angle and puts certain limbs closer to the enemy than others. 2 if your enemy has fought before, he can recognize what your doing and see the limitations you've put on yourself. But...stances often seem to be encouraged as a starting position in karate. The chambering of the fist at the hip before a punch, etc. Just a couple examples of many.

Someone mentioned George Dillman. I'd be cautious about most of what comes it of his mouth, personally. Maybe a better example of a bunkai expert would be Iain Abernethy.

IMO


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[Bill Mattocks]

I can't speak for anyone else, but the karate I practice (Isshinryu) is effective for self-defense. Anyone who doubts that is welcome to give it a try sometime. That is all.

 

[Kickboxer101]

If karate is in effective why do people train it? Now I don't do karate but I wouldn't want to mess with a black belt in any karate style. It teaches punches, kicks and blocks so that makes it just as effective as kickboxing or mauy Thai or kray maga or any other striking art

 

[Tames D]

Any fighting art is only as good as how it is trained.

 

[drop bear]

If karate is in effective why do people train it? Now I don't do karate but I wouldn't want to mess with a black belt in any karate style. It teaches punches, kicks and blocks so that makes it just as effective as kickboxing or mauy Thai or kray maga or any other striking art

People train some pretty stupid stuff.

For the most part nobody ever has to use if for anything and can just go through their lives assuming they would be a badass if it came down to it.

This is not a reflection on karate. Just a response to "why would they train it"

 

[Dirty Dog]

If karate is in effective why do people train it?

People train in martial arts for lots of reasons. Many of which have nothing whatsoever to do with self defense.

 

[Tired_Yeti]

People train in martial arts for lots of reasons. Many of which have nothing whatsoever to do with self defense.

Very true!
Some styles (e.g. Judo and Taekwondo) are sports. They've always been sports. They were always meant to be sports. Some people enjoy the sport just like some people enjoy swimming or golf. Nothing wrong with that. Some people train for the health and fitness of it. Nothing wrong with that either.

I think it's best if a person understands WHY they are personally training and what they are being taught and not fall into the mistake of assuming they are automatically covering all bases (fitness, sporting competitions, and self-defense/fighting) just because they are training in a martial art.


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[Dirty Dog]

Some styles (e.g. Judo and Taekwondo) are sports. They've always been sports. They were always meant to be sports.

This is utterly and completely wrong.

 

[drop bear]

Very true!
Some styles (e.g. Judo and Taekwondo) are sports. They've always been sports. They were always meant to be sports. Some people enjoy the sport just like some people enjoy swimming or golf. Nothing wrong with that. Some people train for the health and fitness of it. Nothing wrong with that either.

I think it's best if a person understands WHY they are personally training and what they are being taught and not fall into the mistake of assuming they are automatically covering all bases (fitness, sporting competitions, and self-defense/fighting) just because they are training in a martial art.


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Depends if it is the sport of fighting.

 

[RTKDCMB]

Some styles (e.g. Judo and Taekwondo) are sports. They've always been sports. They were always meant to be sports.

Perhaps you should consult the TKD encyclopedia as to the motivation for the inception of TKD.

 

[Buka]

I know people take Martial Arts for a lot of different reasons, but I suspect that everyone wants to learn to defend themselves. I shall go to my grave believing that.

 

[TSDTexan]

Having been in real world fights on the streets of San Antonio TX, and tradition karate/TSD has served it's purpose of keeping me alive I must disagree totally with the main thesis.

 

[Kickboxer101]

I know people take Martial Arts for a lot of different reasons, but I suspect that everyone wants to learn to defend themselves. I shall go to my grave believing that.

Exactly even if they're doing It just for fitness I'm sure they still want to be able to use it to defend themselves if need be even if it's not their main focus it's still something they'll want

 

[TSDTexan]

Perhaps you should consult the TKD encyclopedia as to the motivation for the inception of TKD.

Not all tkd lineages have remained true to Choi's ITF vison many have sportified and have been broken ever since

 

[TSDTexan]

I can't speak for anyone else, but the karate I practice (Isshinryu) is effective for self-defense. Anyone who doubts that is welcome to give it a try sometime. That is all.

Having had a full contact mouth guard only fight with an Isshinryu stylist (he claimed 4th dan) I can say it was easier fighting shot"oh"kan point fighters by far. We were way too young and dumb back then, and he insulted my art form... and claimed it was useless.

We both seriously underestimated each other's art. At the time I hadn't ever heard of Isshinryu. We later became really good friends and he taught me a few things about nihanchi kata.

 

[RTKDCMB]

Not all tkd lineages have remained true to Choi's ITF vison many have sportified and have been broken ever since

My quote was in reference to the comment about the reason for TKD's origin, not what happened after.