Why the opening action??

[Martial D]

Every single movement in SLT has fighting application.

@T_Ray

I can't help but wonder about the efficacy of a system where the movements you train do not translate to fighting application.

There is already a name for that sort of movement: Dance

 

[wckf92]

@Martial D
I noticed you just wrote to T_Ray...but I didn't see his post(?)...did I miss it?

edit: disregard...I just saw where he disagreed with one of your posts.

 

[Martial D]

@Martial D
I noticed you just wrote to T_Ray...but I didn't see his post(?)...did I miss it?

edit: disregard...I just saw where he disagreed with one of your posts.

Ya, he seems to be one of those passive aggressive types. Will disagree but too intimidated to actually post a response.

 

[T_Ray]

#27

 

[LFJ]

If it works, it works. It doesn't matter much to me if it falls within the confines of your special version of wslvt.

Most application ideas that are made up based on what an action looks like rather than knowledge of a sound fighting strategy usually don't work.

I can't help but wonder about the efficacy of a system where the movements you train do not translate to fighting application.

They translate to fighting strategy and particular skills to carry it out, not "here's what to do when someone grabs your wrist".

 

[Martial D]

Most application ideas that are made up based on what an action looks like rather than knowledge of a sound fighting strategy usually don't work.



They translate to fighting strategy and particular skills to carry it out, not "here's what to do when someone grabs your wrist".

Well, all things considered, I'll take your opinion on this matter under advisement, for a second, before I toss it in the bin with the other unsupported BS the internet has given me today.

'fighting strategy and ways to carry it out' huh? But definitely not application? ROFL.

It seems to me that you are learning within a limited scope if you haven't been taught any application. And you say other people's wc is incomplete/broken?

 

[karatejj]

'fighting strategy and ways to carry it out' huh? But definitely not application? ROFL.

Hey dude, not sure what ur find funny?

He just sayin it not set up fake type kung fu moves like monkey steal peach, more like buildin you're skills. At least that how I reed it. Not sure what so hard to understan here, lol

 

[LFJ]

It seems to me that you are learning within a limited scope if you haven't been taught any application.

Why would you think a concept-based approach would be the more limited understanding of actions than "this is a wrist-grab escape"?

How often is someone grabbing your wrist while your hand is in front of your crotch?

Sounds like opportunities for use of this escape are pretty limited.

Oh, it can also be a standing collar-choke? Another high-frequency move, right?

That's why it's the very first thing taught in the first form to a beginner. High-percentage, too, right?

 

[DanT]

If you are referring to the crossing hands motion at the beginning of all 3 forms, it is referred to as Gao Cha Sao.

It's primary purpose is to define the centre line.

It also functions to teach the limits of the central line in certain Wing Chun lineages.

Some schools teach it as a block for certain kicks. (I don't).

 

[KPM]

The action is not an application of any sort; neither a freeing hand nor collar choke. (Are you choking children or little people?)

It imparts strategic information regarding attack lines and spatial control through striking.

It's directly related to the last three actions, but not as freeing hands, which is also directly related to the action that ends almost every section of CK, which is also directly related to the BJ action that goes underneath, which is all related to daan-chi-sau, pun-sau, and laap-sau.

In fact, it's a main conceptual thread that runs through the entire system.

Now, why would a wrist-grab escape be that important?? It's not! No one has ever grabbed my wrist while I was taking a leak.

That is skin and hair people came up with looking at the shapes while having no information!

It's not a nifty self-defense technique. It's imparting strategic information on a way of free fighting.

Yeah thanks! You go on and on and say very little. All that above and yet you never describe what this "strategic information" actually is, or what this "main conceptual thread" is. Once again you try to come off sounding like an expert but actual said very little of any real substance.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

Why is it you do the first action of SLT? What does it mean to you're system of WC???

I was taught that the 1st move of SNT is just to "send energy from your body through your shoulder joint, elbow joint, wrist joint, and all the way to your finger tip". In order to do so, your

- shoulder joint,
- elbow joint,
- wrist joint

have to be relax enough to let the energy to flow through. This training will also be repeated in the 3rd WC Biu Tze form that you strike your finger tip forward instead.

As far as the application, it can be used as:

- Your left hand grab on your opponent's right wrist.
- Your right hand grab on your opponent's left wrist.
- You press his left arm against his own right arm.
- You free your left hand and ...

 

[LFJ]

Yeah thanks! You go on and on and say very little. All that above and yet you never describe what this "strategic information" actually is, or what this "main conceptual thread" is.

I said regarding attack lines and spatial control through striking. It's not a "if they do this, you do that" that you can get over a forum. Best learned in person.

 

[Martial D]

Why would you think a concept-based approach would be the more limited understanding of actions than "this is a wrist-grab escape"?

It's more than just that, but that is an application of the movement, and it works.

How often is someone grabbing your wrist while your hand is in front of your crotch?

Seriously? People grab the wrists low a lot in street altercations. You obviously grew up(or are growing up) in a much different sort of neighborhood than I did.

Sounds like opportunities for use of this escape are pretty limited.

Something is certainly 'limited' here, I'll give you that.

Oh, it can also be a standing collar-choke? Another high-frequency move, right?

That's why it's the very first thing taught in the first form to a beginner. High-percentage, too, right?

Yes, yes it can. SLT has many layers. Sucks for you you are learning from some mystical guru that never actually comes out and explains anything, yet instead smugly hides behind nebulous abstract concepts as if it were some hidden wisdom passed down from god himself.

...or maybe that's just you. I dunno. Fact is that escape and that choke both work, I've used them both many times..and honestly I will take two functional applications over a whole years worth of your smug musings any day of the week.

Luckily for me there are functional applications for ALL the movements in SLT, so I don't need to settle for just the two. Maybe one day I'll teach them to you.

 

[LFJ]

How often is someone grabbing your wrist while your hand is in front of your crotch?

Seriously? People grab the wrists low a lot in street altercations. You obviously grew up(or are growing up) in a much different sort of neighborhood than I did.

Sounds like a rough neighborhood!

 

[SOD-WC]

I was taught that the 1st move of SNT is just to "send energy from your body through your shoulder joint, elbow joint, wrist joint, and all the way to your finger tip". In order to do so, your

- shoulder joint,
- elbow joint,
- wrist joint

have to be relax enough to let the energy to flow through. This training will also be repeated in the 3rd WC Biu Tze form that you strike your finger tip forward instead.

As far as the application, it can be used as:

- Your left hand grab on your opponent's right wrist.
- Your right hand grab on your opponent's left wrist.
- You press his left arm against his own right arm.
- You free your left hand and ...

Is there a feeling or a cue of some sort when u can finally relax those 3 joints to send the energy to the finger tip? i still struggle at relaxing my shoulders
also i havent started the other 2 forms so im not gona even start to try to understand them.

 

[Punchy]

Is there a feeling or a cue of some sort when u can finally relax those 3 joints to send the energy to the finger tip? i still struggle at relaxing my shoulders
also i havent started the other 2 forms so im not gona even start to try to understand them.

Think of slinging water off the ends of your fingers.

 

[wingchun100]

Thought he post some videos? I seen a few anyway. Looked different to wing chun I do, no close range for starters!!

I am not sure who you thought you saw, but I have never seen LFJ share a video here.

 

[LFJ]

I am not sure who you thought you saw, but I have never seen LFJ share a video here.

You had me on ignore, genius.

 

[Martial D]

Think of slinging water off the ends of your fingers.

My sifu explained it as a firehose. He showed us all a cool party trick to demonstrate this principle;put your hand on my shoulder, and directly resist as I try to collapse your arm at the elbow. Of course he could easily collapse it.
Now imagine your arm is a fire hose, firing out water at full velocity. Of course now the energy is forward instead of up, so the arm becomes difficult or impossible to collapse.
I've won many a free beer with that...

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

i still struggle at relaxing my shoulders.

To rotate one arm forward while rotate the other arm backward can help you to relax your shoulder joint.