Why some people still don't want to wear mask?

[dvcochran]

I couldn't find anywhere where people need a working knowledge of binary though.

Yeah know it exists but I don't think it ever gets used.

We still use it quite heavily when troubleshooting assembly language.

 

[dvcochran]

never used calculas then have you,

Use it quite often for interpolated motion control.

 

[dvcochran]

When I work for Schlumberger and Baker the Engineers and Scientist used computers to do the heavy lifting , programing a computer to do very compicated work
requires the engineer to understand calculus. You have to have a true understanding of calculas as normal calculas formulas can not be programinto a computer.
Most programers now days don't know FORTRAN. You could do it in C but I think it would be harder.

Oh how I do NOT miss Fortran.

 

[dvcochran]

I saw this today and I was like. hmmmm. 7000 people who didn't have to have it.
"More than 7,000 college-age people in Missouri have tested positive for the coronavirus since classes resumed in mid-August, fueling spikes in confirmed cases in the state’s college towns, Gov. Mike Parson said Thursday." source: Parson: 7,000-plus Missouri college students test positive

7000 new opportunities to spread the virus to someone else.

So, what % of error in testing do you apply as inaccuracy in the total numbers being published?
Here is my direct personal experience. Our 26 year old son (who had no symptoms)went to a walk-in/drive up test site. He tested positive after an 18 day wait for results. My wife (who had symptoms) went to her regular doctor and tested negative. even had the antibody test and it came back negative. If it is passes from person to person in the fashion(s) claimed there is no way she would Not have gotten it from our son. We wrestle around with each other all the time.
I paid $250 each for three of my engineers to have the rapid testing. All came back negative. Everyone else at work went to a walk-in/drive up test site (and different test sites) and ALL of them tested positive, again after waiting 17 days for the results. We never stopped working and nobody ever got sick.
I am certain some if not much of the same thing is going on with the student testing. All testing for that matter.
Yes, I think there is a Lot of BS going on.

 

[JowGaWolf]

Have you seen any of the Purge movies? Makes me think of them. And how we are headed for that kind of anarchy.

seen them all and quite enjoy them. Easy solution take a martial arts class of some sort MMA, Karate, whatever and do sparring at least once a week. Hit the bags or pads at least 2 times a week and all of that stress is gone lol.

But seriously things are bad but it's not the worst that we have had. That's the gives me hope. The other thing is the concept of balance which has become a really big part of my life lately. All things typically try to maintain a balance, so no matter how crazy things get life will always see that balance. The only "worry" is that there are many ways to balance things. The big question is "Will life need humans to balance or will it need to get rid of humans in order to balance." The thing about viruses (non-man-made) is that they do a really good job in balancing things out, and it's one of the things that has no problem working on a global scale

Things look like gloom and doom, but I can point to similar points in our past where we have gone through the same thing. The only real difference is the technology available and the amount of people. Those are things that will either help fuel or decrease the tension.

 

[EdwardA]

Ok. So what do the other expert sources say?

Because that would be the sensible follow up there wouldn't it?

Anybody can spend tons of time looking for data, sources...but consider that the Mayo Clinic created the testing procedure. They also transmitted the specs and procedures for the tests. The CDC and FDA fully regulate the manufacturers. So where and why did the specs of how many amplification cycles go? I don't think the manufacturers of the test were told oh, do it however you want. It's also states in the articles, the labs didn't transmit how many cycles they used. How is that a question? It means the cycles were varied, not regulated. No set number of cycles. Again, where'd the specs from the Mayo Clinic go? None of them are going to say, we did that.

 

[JowGaWolf]

I don't think the manufacturers of the test were told oh, do it however you want.

There always needs to be some set of standards. But according to what I posted from the CDC, the manufacturers determine how the test works and how many cycle counts to use. In one of the quotes that I posted it mentioned that the CDC was talking with the manufacturers in order to determine what standard will be. Once you have a standard then you can meet or exceed it as you please, so long as you don't go below it.

Standards are a good thing and it's always to have one organization that sets that for a specific "tool." Be happy that the CDC and FDA exist. Are they perfect? Of course not and they don't make that claim. Do they make mistakes, yes. That's what humans do. If you want to know what will happen without the CDC and FDA then look at the world and the problems they had before the CDC and FDA.

But again as far as the cycles go the Manufacturers are determining that. I rather live in a world of required standards than a world without them.

 

[JowGaWolf]

So, what % of error in testing do you apply as inaccuracy in the total numbers being published?

I'm not applying any % of error. That's not for me to randomly apply. You can't magically apply a percentage of error. They only way you would even know that is if you test them again. Again, back to the Cycles. If the cycles don't read at a certain level, then errors occur. I don't know and you don't know if the test were done correctly or not. This is why we need standards. So trying to apply inaccuracy about something that neither you and I aren't involved in, is just nuts.

The other you have to realize is that none of this stuff is going to work perfect "out of the box." People still fail to realize that the US is still developing testing. You deal with the numbers that you get with the testing that you have. From there you try to improve the testing so that it's faster and more accurate. That has always been the reality of Medical Testing. It holds true for testing for Cancer. It holds true for testing for testing for influenza, it hold true for testing for blood sugar levels in diabetics.

This expectation that testing that didn't exist 9 months ago for a disease that didn't exist a year ago is just unrealistic.

Here is my direct personal experience. Our 26 year old son (who had no symptoms)went to a walk-in/drive up test site. He tested positive after an 18 day wait for results. My wife (who had symptoms) went to her regular doctor and tested negative. even had the antibody test and it came back negative. If it is passes from person to person in the fashion(s) claimed there is no way she would Not have gotten it from our son. We wrestle around with each other all the time.

So you blame the test for this? Did you ever ask yourself these questions?
1. Did the samples get mixed up
2. Was the testing done properly according to the instructions set by the manufacturer?
3. Where the samples handled properly?

All of these 3 things could be why your son tested differently at no fault of the test. All of these things are realistic and actually occur not only in this testing but also in other types of testing. But your first reaction is that the test is crap because your son tested positive and your wife did not. Have you ever heard of people going to a doctor to get a second and third opinion, because one doctor say one thing and another doctor say something else?

For people who have never had to create a medical test, you guys sure act like you are an expert on it. It wasn't until last night that I knew why the cycle were set at 40.

 

[JowGaWolf]

Lets view the value of standards on a lower and less complex level by viewing martial arts. We have seen martial arts schools who follow a standard for that specific school. But there are no global board that regulates Martial Arts Standards. Schools that tend to do well are those who follow standards throughout the organization. So every school that is part of that organization has to operate with a certain set of standards.

Anything that operates below that standard will be the schools that struggle. This doesn't mean your martial arts sucks. It may mean that you didn't pick the standard for finding a location to operate in.

Now there will be schools that have no standards in common with other martial arts systems. Schools like the Yellow Bamboo do not use Martial Arts standards which is why this stuff happens.

For me personally I think ALL MARTIAL ARTS SCHOOL would benefit if they had One organizations that could set some general standards for a martial arts school. This could easily be done by taking a look at Successful martial arts schools and classify them into 3 different groups. Mental Health, Combat, Physical Exercise and Sport. or something similar.
From there based on schools that produce high quality in these. Anyone opening a school would have to meet some common standards. For example, One could not claim to be a Martial Arts self-defense school if there is not a certain intensity level of sparring involved, that is beyond no touch sparring, and tap sparring. This standard would allow school to meet that standard or exceed it. If the school fails to keep up with that standard then they lose the certification.

Right now there's no such standard for martial arts as a whole. Which is why we end up with this

For all fighting sports there are common standard required for fighting no matter what the system is. But those are just natural standards and not standards required by an organization. Once school has been identified by the organization then it becomes easier to know which school will help you reach a specific goal. No more wondering if a martial arts school can help you learn how to fight with the system or use it as self defense.

Standards matter. FDA sets food and drug standards by insuring that a wide variety of foods and drugs meet a common level of quality. (Note: when I say common level of quality. I'm referring to a common level of quality of what they are inspecting.)

 

[drop bear]

We still use it quite heavily when troubleshooting assembly language.

And so if I Translated 2+2=4 in to binary. Would it still work?

Or do the results change?

 

[EdwardA]

There always needs to be some set of standards. But according to what I posted from the CDC, the manufacturers determine how the test works and how many cycle counts to use. In one of the quotes that I posted it mentioned that the CDC was talking with the manufacturers in order to determine what standard will be. Once you have a standard then you can meet or exceed it as you please, so long as you don't go below it.

Standards are a good thing and it's always to have one organization that sets that for a specific "tool." Be happy that the CDC and FDA exist. Are they perfect? Of course not and they don't make that claim. Do they make mistakes, yes. That's what humans do. If you want to know what will happen without the CDC and FDA then look at the world and the problems they had before the CDC and FDA.

But again as far as the cycles go the Manufacturers are determining that. I rather live in a world of required standards than a world without them.

The two articles I posted were very easy on the issue. In the same search I found more articles that were much tougher....at pointing out the errors. I did that on purpose.

Either way nobody's going to know how much error there has been, for some time.... considering right now, some "experts" are trying to uncover what other "experts" did or didn't do. It's not going to be easy to find out. The one thing that is known, from before it was being investigated...was that many labs being surveyed, admitted running up to 50+ cycles. Now nobody wants to say anything. Like I said earlier, the blame game is beginning.

 

[dvcochran]

And so if I Translated 2+2=4 in to binary. Would it still work?

Or do the results change?

Yes it would work; just a different number system. The kind the computer understands. Binary is incredibly compact and efficient in terms of memory allocation.

 

[dvcochran]

The two articles I posted were very easy on the issue. In the same search I found more articles that were much tougher....at pointing out the errors. I did that on purpose.

Either way nobody's going to know how much error there has been, for some time.... considering right now, some "experts" are trying to uncover what other "experts" did or didn't do. It's not going to be easy to find out. The one thing that is known, from before it was being investigated...was that many labs being surveyed, admitted running up to 50+ cycles. Now nobody wants to say anything. Like I said earlier, the blame game is beginning.

Agree. There is already a great amount of lost data I am afraid. So much of the more common illness data has been wrapped up into the numbers. And let's not forget the financial advantage for hospitals to include C-19 in a diagnosis. I do not see how the numbers will ever be accurate.

 

[dvcochran]

I'm not applying any % of error. That's not for me to randomly apply. You can't magically apply a percentage of error. They only way you would even know that is if you test them again. Again, back to the Cycles. If the cycles don't read at a certain level, then errors occur. I don't know and you don't know if the test were done correctly or not. This is why we need standards. So trying to apply inaccuracy about something that neither you and I aren't involved in, is just nuts.

The other you have to realize is that none of this stuff is going to work perfect "out of the box." People still fail to realize that the US is still developing testing. You deal with the numbers that you get with the testing that you have. From there you try to improve the testing so that it's faster and more accurate. That has always been the reality of Medical Testing. It holds true for testing for Cancer. It holds true for testing for testing for influenza, it hold true for testing for blood sugar levels in diabetics.

This expectation that testing that didn't exist 9 months ago for a disease that didn't exist a year ago is just unrealistic.

So you blame the test for this? Did you ever ask yourself these questions?
1. Did the samples get mixed up
2. Was the testing done properly according to the instructions set by the manufacturer?
3. Where the samples handled properly?

All of these 3 things could be why your son tested differently at no fault of the test. All of these things are realistic and actually occur not only in this testing but also in other types of testing. But your first reaction is that the test is crap because your son tested positive and your wife did not. Have you ever heard of people going to a doctor to get a second and third opinion, because one doctor say one thing and another doctor say something else?

For people who have never had to create a medical test, you guys sure act like you are an expert on it. It wasn't until last night that I knew why the cycle were set at 40.

You have talked in circles this whole thread. In the same post you saying we, as layman, are not supposed to understand or know anything about what is going on. Then in the same post you question the very process you are trying, and failing, to uphold.
C'mon man. Get on one side of the fence and have the balls to stay there.

What was the point of my testing? I had 3 engineers that had to be at a customer location early on back in May for extended periods and the customer asked me if they had been tested.
As far as my family I imagine it was no different from anyone else who has been tested.
But that is not good enough for you. Now you are huffing and puffing the WE were supposed to somehow determine the samples were mixed up or did not get handled properly or even that the test was not done properly? How the hell would ANYONE be able to find out this information?
If you had read the post you would have seen my wife also had the antibody test, so there is your second opinion.

I am not explicitly claiming anything. Just stating my personal experience. Instead of just popping shots at everything others have written. It lessons any credibility you may have had on the subject when you keep jumping back and forth over the fence, claiming everything is going along as it should one time , then feebly trying to explain why some things are not working.

 

[Steve]

Watch in the next few weeks, how much of a blame game it becomes. The manufacturers are completely regulated by the cdc and fda. There's a lot more of this issue being examined right now. I've seen articles from the medical community saying that up to 90% of the tests may have been effected. That's only a worse case senario, because it'll take all lot of time before they can come to a conclusion....if ever. It's not like they can redo the tests.

There was a network of doctors that tried to bring up both, the testing and death certificate issues about 4 months ago. The press wouldn't give them any air time, so they put it on youtube. Google deleted their account. Won't see any of this stuff on TV news.

The CDC and the FDA have been politicized undermining public trust in their processes. Regarding the death certificates, it was literally not news to anyone who isn't inclined to conspiracy theories.

Agree. There is already a great amount of lost data I am afraid. So much of the more common illness data has been wrapped up into the numbers. And let's not forget the financial advantage for hospitals to include C-19 in a diagnosis. I do not see how the numbers will ever be accurate.

totally agree. We should have a single payer system. A profit driven health system is immoral and ripe with corruption.

 

[dvcochran]

The CDC and the FDA have been politic
totally agree. We should have a single payer system. A profit driven health system is immoral and ripe with corruption.

No surprise you think that way.

 

[Steve]

No surprise you think that way.

I agree. It's funny to me that you articulate inherent problems with a "for profit l" health care system and then say things like this.

 

[dvcochran]

I agree. It's funny to me that you articulate inherent problems with a "for profit l" health care system and then say things like this.

You think socialism is for profit?

 

[Steve]

You think socialism is for profit?

Errr... you’re not reading for comprehension again. I’ll say it slower. A... “for profit”... healthcare system... is... immoral.

 

[dvcochran]

Errr... you’re not reading for comprehension again. I’ll say it slower. A... “for profit”... healthcare system... is... immoral.

I am working right now and don't have the time to get into it with you. I will just say your history proves you always have a motive with a comment like that. I will make one attempt with a link; but you will interpret it wrong and twist it anyway.
Ethical Issues in For-Profit Health Care - For-Profit Enterprise in Health Care - NCBI Bookshelf