Why is this done?

[Bee Brian]

Bulgarian weightlifters....

In 78 me and a few other fools spent a few months in Hawaii. We were working on Waikiki as pedicab drivers - peddle a bike attached to a cool carriage and drive tourists around for a tour or to bar hop - and charge outrageous fees - they knew the price beforehand, they didn't care.

One time Wide World of Sports was having a televised world strongest man thing going one. My buddy was driving two Bulgarian weightlifters from bar to bar. They barely fit in the carriage. When they got off at one bar, one of them grabbed the handlebars of the bike and just bent them into a pretzel. Tipped my buddy big, though.

Every time I hear the term Bulgarian weightlifter - my mind goes to that pretzel.

So THAT'S your true fantasy fight? Being dominated by strong men!

I'm joking of course. <insertappropriateemoji>

 

[Buka]

So THAT'S your true fantasy fight? Being dominated by strong men!

I'm joking of course. <insertappropriateemoji>

Lol!

You're a very strong man, right?

Anytime you're ready, kid. But please pack a lunch. Might take you all day.

 

[Graywalker]

So THAT'S your true fantasy fight? Being dominated by strong men!

Haha..that's great.

 

[drop bear]

So THAT'S your true fantasy fight? Being dominated by strong men!

I'm joking of course. <insertappropriateemoji>

That is literally the definition of martial arts.

You watch never back down and think it is all parties highlight reels and hot girls. But the reality is some sweaty bloke sitting on you for five minutes.

 

[drop bear]

Maybe it’s a good thing that they’re at least trying. And maybe years down the road it will develop nicely. And maybe not.

When I think of some of the things I taught in the nineteen seventies I want to hide in shame. But, hey, my instructor taught me those techniques, there’s no way they couldn’t be anything other than the balls.[/QUOTE]

Like that single arm guard pass. I remember that being the rage in the 90s.

 

[Tony Dismukes]

Maybe it’s a good thing that they’re at least trying. And maybe years down the road it will develop nicely. And maybe not.

When I think of some of the things I taught in the nineteen seventies I want to hide in shame. But, hey, my instructor taught me those techniques, there’s no way they couldn’t be anything other than the balls.

Like that single arm guard pass. I remember that being the rage in the 90s.

I was shown that one in a seminar by Royce Gracie about 20 years ago. It can work - if you know how to do all the subtle details perfectly and your opponent doesn’t know how to take advantage of it. I don’t think I’ve seen anyone teach it for at least 15 years.

 

[drop bear]

I was shown that one in a seminar by Royce Gracie about 20 years ago. It can work - if you know how to do all the subtle details perfectly and your opponent doesn’t know how to take advantage of it. I don’t think I’ve seen anyone teach it for at least 15 years.

It is a weird one because you could do it to entire rooms full of people until they learn the trick to it.

 

[Hanzou]

I haven't watched the video yet but I read your post.

It's a business. They sometimes have to false-advertise. That's just how businesses are.

Uh, the core aspect of business isn’t to lie to your consumers. It’s also pretty disingenuous to tell impressionable people that they’re learning ancient Ninja arts, when they’re in fact learning a watered down version of a Brazilian combat sport. It’s honestly one of the worst aspects of martial arts instruction.

 

[Hanzou]

I would say because ground techniques are not exclusive to BJJ nor MMA. There are several places they can come from.

I’d be very curious what ancient Koryu from Japan contained guard play and triangle chokes. Especially considering that that terminology was being used instead of Japanese names for those techniques.

I remember at 15 yrs old in 84 or 85, we were doing grappling techniques in the Karate school, long before BJJ was even widely known and you will see ground training in Doshinkan as well to this day. It is also one of the things we still cover.

I will say though, we don't train ourselves to get knotted up...it is primarily escape and strike your why out and get back up.

I’d be interested in seeing this karate based ground fighting you’re talking about.

Also in Bjj we don’t train get ourselves knotted up either....

 

[Graywalker]

I’d be very curious what ancient Koryu from Japan contained guard play and triangle chokes. Especially considering that that terminology was being used instead of Japanese names for those techniques.

I think the ancient part throws me off, Karate is not really ancient.

I’d be interested in seeing this karate based ground fighting you’re talking about.

Join a Doshinkan dojo...you will see it there.

 

[Graywalker]

It boggles my mind that people think BJJ is the authority on ground fighting.

It's a good sport for sure, but it's not an authority, and it was taken from another art and modified and tested under rule set, not useless but not even a cornerstone of ground fighting. IMO

 

[Hanzou]

It boggles my mind that people think BJJ is the authority on ground fighting.

It's a good sport for sure, but it's not an authority, and it was taken from another art and modified and tested under rule set, not useless but not even a cornerstone of ground fighting. IMO

So no examples of this”karate-based ground fighting“ you’re talking about? Okay.

What martial art would you say is more of an authority on ground fighting than Bjj? I’m not seeing TMAs like this school using concepts from some other form of ground based combat.

 

[drop bear]

It boggles my mind that people think BJJ is the authority on ground fighting.

It's a good sport for sure, but it's not an authority, and it was taken from another art and modified and tested under rule set, not useless but not even a cornerstone of ground fighting. IMO

Not a lot of systems beating BJJ on the ground under any conditions anywhere. And those systems that do tend to have pretty competent BJJ. So your catch or sub wrestlers will be playing BJJ with BJJ guys.

And of course now the cornerstone of modern military hand to hand in America under the different systems.

And a system that conceptually travels from system to system. So that a soldiers doing modern army combatives could go to a MMA school with his BJJ skills and continue to develop rather than having to restart under some sort of different method.

So cornerstone would be a very accurate description.

So You can literally take a buy guy and a wrestling MMA guy and they can roll without having to fart around defining concepts.

Or you can give those concepts to police or military and they can transport them directly over to real world situations.

Or even take guys with no real experience, virtually drag them off the street and use these concepts to dominate them.

And you can transport that to navy seals who can then go back on the mat and murder normal people.

And so. When you can see the same results. And when you can show the same concepts creating the same conclusion. You can pretty confidently assume that the conclusions will be consistent regardless of the person or the situation. 2+2=4 Because maths works.

 

[Hanzou]

Thank you Drop Bear.

The most disappointing thing about this topic is that the Bjj/sub grappling community is always hungry for new techniques and methods. So my attitude towards this ninja school isn’t fear that a new grappling system would supplant Bjj, it’s disappointment that these guys aren’t bringing anything new to the table, and not crediting the source of their techniques. I would LOVE to see a competent ground fighting system from pre-Meiji Japan. However, for some reason we keep getting a watered down version of Bjj.

Also for some reason it’s almost always the “Ninjas” doing it.

 

[KOKarate]

Don’t know about them but not everyone does. Jeff speakman who adapted his system of Kenpo to include ground fighting recently did a interview with Scott Adkins and he said how because he wanted to understand it he trained at a school for 5 years and took off his 4th or 5th dan and put on a white belt for bjj

 

[drop bear]

Don’t know about them but not everyone does. Jeff speakman who adapted his system of Kenpo to include ground fighting recently did a interview with Scott Adkins and he said how because he wanted to understand it he trained at a school for 5 years and took off his 4th or 5th dan and put on a white belt for bjj

Yeah. UFC fighters do it as well.

Although then we call them sand baggers.

 

[Hanzou]

Join a Doshinkan dojo...you will see it there.

Would this be an example of Doshinkan Kata?

Also is it true that there is no sparring allowed?

No thanks.

 

[Hanzou]

Don’t know about them but not everyone does. Jeff speakman who adapted his system of Kenpo to include ground fighting recently did a interview with Scott Adkins and he said how because he wanted to understand it he trained at a school for 5 years and took off his 4th or 5th dan and put on a white belt for bjj

I was actually going to bring up Speakman. Yeah, he did it the right way, and his students benefitted from it. He got a lot of crap for doing it from people within his community too, which always confused me.

 

[Bee Brian]

Would this be an example of Doshinkan Kata?

Also is it true that there is no sparring allowed?

No thanks.

Makes a straight face.

Bro, what's wrong with that video? It's a true grand master who's... Pfffffftt... BUWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!!!!!!

 

[KOKarate]

I was actually going to bring up Speakman. Yeah, he did it the right way, and his students benefitted from it. He got a lot of crap for doing it from people within his community too, which always confused me.

Simply because they’re idiots stuck in the past saying “that’s now what Ed Parker did” and frankly that’s bs. Yeah Ed Parker didn’t put ground fighting in but he died in 1990 3 years before it became big and one of Ed Parker’s big things about kenpo was that it always should be evolving with the times. If he was alive today kenpo would be completely different and his big wish was that his style didn’t get traditionalised But sadly it did and no one had the balls to change it up.the only one who really has done is speakman and he has also refused to be awarded ranks he’s always insisted on getting on the floor and testing for it. Now sure yeah it’s unlikely anyone would ever fail him but at least he stepped up and actually took part in the test which is more than most would