Why is martial arts movies less popular today?

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

Batman doesn't have any superpowers. None. He's just a martial artist who did a good job picking his parents, which allows him to buy cool gadgets.

... and hire good teachers and focus on training overseas. Without having to make a living.

(Wealth as superpower. )

I'm of the belief that he has two superpowers, which may be some implant that he gave himself and never gets mentioned in a comic. Enhanced reflexes, and enhanced healing. That's the only way to explain how he is able to recover from wounds that really should kill or paralyze him in a manner of days, and his ability to dodge bullets which comes up (rarely nowadays). Both of which would also have helped him become a better martial artist-enhanced healing would be pretty similar to steroid use for training purposes, and enhanced reflexes is something any martial artist could benefit from.

 

[mograph]

That's the only way to explain how he is able to recover from wounds that really should kill or paralyze him in a manner of days, and his ability to dodge bullets which comes up (rarely nowadays).

I'm cynical enough to agree with its being "plot armor."

While not often too egregious in his own book, the second [Batman] steps into a Justice League book he's a very different character. For someone who is often championed as "Just a normal man" who works very hard, it is very hard to swallow when he will be struck by characters who can rip through steel like paper, be hurled through multiple stone pillars/walls, dodge attacks that The Flash and Superman get struck by, and only end up a bit bruised or sore when he should be liquefied by now. Almost always in full force during any Superman vs. Batman encounter where there is seemingly always an excuse why Superman, who even in his weakest incarnation, is "Faster than a speeding bullet" has one iota of trouble against Batman, whose Kryptonite IS bullets. Plus, even when Batman wises up and wears Powered Armor, he often has his helmet in the same shape as his iconic mask, with his mouth completely exposed. Amazingly, no one ever sends a super strong/super fast punch right through his unprotected mouth.

Plot Armor - TV Tropes

Lucky Bob! He's The Protagonist of a story, The Hero whose predestined role is to oppose — maybe even defeat — the villain. He's essential to the plot, which means it is assumed he will progress through the story until at least the …

tvtropes.org

 

[Buka]

Unless we're speaking about a documentary, comparing movies to martial arts is kind of odd. But I guess it gives us another thing to talk about. Which is a good thing.

I've spent a fair amount of time in Hollywood, I've written a few really bad martial arts movies that were purchased and produced, one of my best friends is a well know actor, (she's more like a little sister to me) I'm a member of SAG, and I've spent some time in Martial Arts.

The film industry doesn't really care about Martial Arts. All they care about is us watching their product. And I'll watch until the cows come home because I love Martial Arts and I love movies.

 

[Gyakuto]

Even some thing like star wars and star trek being so popular I’m surprise some studios has not made spin of it calling it some thing else but being space show similar to it.

They have made spin offs within their own franchises - Picard, Discovery (), Strange New Worlds to name a few…and that series of film with that gold robot. Then there are direct copies such as The Orville, spoof films like Galaxy Quest. Can you see what’s happening…?

Is the problem with hollywood studios today?

They lack originality, or rather the guts to back original ideas. There are too many rehashed superhero films and remakes of classics (I hear they’re redoing ‘Ghost’ ). My friend is a film maker and she says seeking funding for anything even vaguely original (or ‘untested’ as the major studios call it) is virtually impossible and subsequently, screen writers merely craft variations of films that have been profitable. She’s looking to make a martial arts ‘Black Swan’ (I’m being deliberately vague) but for the above reasons, is going to Japan to pitch it.

Is there a monopoly with hollywood today is the problem?

It’s a business and profit is the central motivation rather than artistic merit. Sometimes the two do overlap but I can understand their reluctance to make potential commercial flops and instead have adopted the mantra ‘Give ‘em what they [think they] want!’ (people in tights flying and lifting heavy hammers etc).

 

[Tony Dismukes]

I'm of the belief that he has two superpowers, which may be some implant that he gave himself and never gets mentioned in a comic. Enhanced reflexes, and enhanced healing. That's the only way to explain how he is able to recover from wounds that really should kill or paralyze him in a manner of days, and his ability to dodge bullets which comes up (rarely nowadays). Both of which would also have helped him become a better martial artist-enhanced healing would be pretty similar to steroid use for training purposes, and enhanced reflexes is something any martial artist could benefit from.

There is a clear difference between the world of comics books and real life in terms of the upper limit of "normal" human capacity for developing skill and physical attributes.

It's not just Batman, consider heroes and villains such as Hawkeye, Black Widow, Green Arrow, Bullseye, Kingpin, Wildcat, Batroc, Shiva, Nightwing, Catwoman, Harley Quinn, Daredevil (enhanced senses, but no metahuman fighting powers), Punisher, Shang Chi (original version, before they started giving him superpowers), Elektra, Stick, Karate Kid, etc, etc, etc.

To put it in RPG terms for the game nerds, the real world has a hard level cap of 20, and your Strength, Dexterity, and Constitution have a hard cap of 18, but you can't reach level 20 until you're so old that your Strength, Dexterity, and Constitution have all suffered aging penalties. Meanwhile in comic book land your skills can reach level 40 and your physical attributes can reach 30 before you get to age 25.

I have an intricate theory showing that the worlds of superhero comic books and movies are all actually advanced computer simulations and "skill-based" characters like Batman and Hawkeye have just been granted massive experience point boosts by the game devs, but this comment is too small to write out the proof.

 

[Gyakuto]

So, the objection would be to someone being "aware of...important societal...issues"?

I don’t understand any of it!

 

[Steve]

Looking at the wikipedia page on Ryan Goslin I don’t know how he got into movie blade runner looking at past movies there seem to be not many action movies and he comes across as week fighter and weak compared to Bruce Willis or Sylvester Stallone so on. It does matter if he knows martial arts or not he just looks weak.

There just some thing odd about lot of movie actors today. In past you seen them in one or two movies and they just stood out.

Next hollywood will be putting Ryan Goslin, Chris Pine, Tom Holland, Rupert Grint or Ansel Elgort in next Dredd movie, Cobra movie, Mad Max movie, Die Hard movie, Total recall, demolition man, Doom movie so on

And hollywood wonders why we don’t know them.

May be millennials and generation Z just look at action fighters different than us boomers.

After reading through your responses, it seems to boil down to you just having a type. You like a particular type of guy in your action movies.

The owners of website don’t want us talking about political stuff here or making reference to political parties or use word woke.

That just say culture difference among boomers than generation Z than dragging political stuff into forum.

But getting back on topic here there is less war movies and mad max like movies too.

Aren't as many Westerns being made, either. And women aren't wearing many corsets, and men are going outside without hats. I'm not sure it's a conspiracy.

But on this note, has anyone seen that war movie that just came out called All's Quiet on the Western Front? I hear it's nominated for a few awards.

Hollywood seem more tight money now days afraid to spend money like in the past. And going with a lot of reboots and remakes and just afraid to spend money.

Vote with your dollars. Hollywood is about making money.

But on this note, has anyone seen that big budget movie called Avatar, the Way of Water? I hear it cost somewhere around $250 million bucks to make.

There also seem to have been more movie genres in past than today so this is not just a martial arts movies, cop martial movies or action cop movies.

One of the things I actually kind of dig about the superhero genre is that there are sub genres represented in those films. Some are space operas, like Guardians of the Galaxy. Some are more like a war movie, like Winter Soldier and the Avengers movies. Shang Chi was a martial arts movie, as was Dr. Strange. The second Dr. Strange definitely had some horror elements. Heck, I'd even call SpiderMan Homecoming a rom-com. Antman movies are all heist movies. And Logan was definitely patterned after the western movies of yore. A modernized retelling of True Grit, when it boils down to it.

Other thing is actors like Bruce Willis or Sylvester Stallone so on get known they ask for more money and so cheaper for hollywood to go with less known actors


I think in lot ways hollywood really gone way out of way to make the actors of 80s and 90s known where today they more tight with money afraid to bring actors up and so get less known actors.

Movies like Dredd movie, Cobra movie, Mad Max movie, Die Hard movie, Total recall, demolition man, Doom in 80s and 90s would get well known actors than less known actors.

Not to sound like a broken record, but I think you would be a lot happier if you stopped living in the past, trying to exist in a world that doesn't change.

 

[Tony Dismukes]

My friend is a film maker and she says seeking funding for anything even vaguely original (or ‘untested’ as the major studios call it) is virtually impossible

It's just mostly impossible. Everything, Everywhere, All At Once was both one of the best and most original movies I've ever seen. It got made and it rightfully earned 11 Oscar nominations. If there is any justice in the world, it will win at least half of those awards.

(As a bonus, it is a Kung Fu flick, along with being science fiction, comedy, drama, and a meditation on the importance of kindness in the face of the absurdity of the human condition.)

 

[moonhill99]

The idea of some normal guy taking out a whole gang with only his fists and feet isn't that believable. The best fights these days involve, at least, a highly-trained operative who uses tools at hand, like Jason Bourne. And he only fights one guy at a time, or carefully isolates his targets.

Also, a fight needs to be a minimum length to be interesting: it needs to be a self-contained story, or at least a dramatic sequence. If we watch any fight between normal guys onscreen, if it lasts long enough to be interesting, at some point we have to think, "okay, that hit should have killed him," yet he continues on as if he were just working out. Or on angel dust, I guess. In order for it to work in a dramatic setting, it has to be unrealistic to some extent, like many things in a filmed story (e.g. how close people stand in a conversation).

As for realistic fight scenes, I'd have to cite the naked fight in Eastern Promises, remembering of course that Viggo plays a highly-trained operative. But that wasn't good because it had flashy martial arts moves; it was because there were knives, and Viggo was naked, lending a real sense of threat. If they were all dressed, it'd be just another fight, even if the choreography was just as good (if I recall).

Yes, people are taking MA for non-fighting reasons. I'd argue that back in the day, they (most of them) weren't taking classes because they were really at risk of getting in a fight: they wanted the sense of power that comes from doing the moves.


Sorry, could you please clarify this question? Thanks.

There two types of hollywood fight moves that hollywood really likes one is tough strong fighter just destroy the bad guys and other is mostly fighting boss being harder to fight. This want people want that is like rpg pc game fighting monsters but boss being harder to fight.

One think lot of kung fu movies had was flashy fighting moves.

When you look at prison fights, street gangs fighting, bar fights, MMA and street fights are messy and more dirty like than flashy kung fu or two wing chun fighters that agree to fight by wing chun rules.

There are five ways to win a fight one is surprised soccer punch mostly some one that never got soccer punch ever or surprised attack could be punch to head or even matter behind head by a surprised attack. Two is both people have no fighting abilities and just using hight or body mass to fight like a 200 pound guy vs 130 pound guy. Three is train fighter vs non train fighter or semi train fighter. The four is use of bat, stick, object. The five is use of gun.

And out five well there no 100% but you get close.

If you look at prison fights and street fights they messy and if you look at MMA they are messy and person being top fighting like Ronda Rousey using her Judo and boxing going like ball Dog destroy everyone well lost to Holly Holm and Amanda Nunes.

Hollywood seems to go with two fighting moves just destroying everyone with flashy moves but the moss fight being harder. In hollywood the fighting is bit more flashy.

I love ninja movies and spy movies and well you may be able to sneak by three or four people in building by not seeing you by luck only, but it is not that believable to sneak by 20 to 30 people or more in building. But I will still watch Bourne movies or mission impossible movies or ninja movies.

The Ninja III: The Domination taking out 20 cops with guns but the ninja not having gun and not getting shot seems less believable but still okay movie.

 

[Dirty Dog]

I'm of the belief that he has two superpowers, which may be some implant that he gave himself and never gets mentioned in a comic.

Only his urologist knows for sure.

 

[Steve]

They have made spin offs within their own franchises - Picard, Discovery (), Strange New Worlds to name a few…and that series of film with that gold robot. Then there are direct copies such as The Orville, spoof films like Galaxy Quest. Can you see what’s happening…?

They lack originality, or rather the guts to back original ideas. There are too many rehashed superhero films and remakes of classics (I hear they’re redoing ‘Ghost’ ). My friend is a film maker and she says seeking funding for anything even vaguely original (or ‘untested’ as the major studios call it) is virtually impossible and subsequently, screen writers merely craft variations of films that have been profitable. She’s looking to make a martial arts ‘Black Swan’ (I’m being deliberately vague) but for the above reasons, is going to Japan to pitch it.

It’s a business and profit is the central motivation rather than artistic merit. Sometimes the two do overlap but I can understand their reluctance to make potential commercial flops and instead have adopted the mantra ‘Give ‘em what they [think they] want!’ (people in tights flying and lifting heavy hammers etc).

A24 studios is pretty much all about backing original ideas and making movies that are original.

 

[Gyakuto]

It's just mostly impossible. Everything, Everywhere, All At Once was both one of the best and most original movies I've ever seen. It got made and it rightfully earned 11 Oscar nominations. If there is any justice in the world, it will win at least half of those awards.

(As a bonus, it is a Kung Fu flick, along with being science fiction, comedy, drama, and a meditation on the importance of kindness in the face of the absurdity of the human condition.)

It is a great film! Jackie Chan turned down the lead role according to Michelle Yeoh!

SciFi seldom does well in the award arena.

 

[Gyakuto]

A24 studios is pretty much all about backing original ideas and making movies that are original.

I want to see their ‘Past Lives’.

 

[moonhill99]

Not to sound like a broken record, but I think you would be a lot happier if you stopped living in the past, trying to exist in a world that doesn't change.

I do watch movies and TV shows other than just martial arts, ninja, martial arts cop, cop, but horror, spy, suspense and space.

Just not big into comic movies.

But I will watch blade, robocop, terminator and zombie movies and vampire movies.

I will look at x-files and fringe tv show.

I just don’t have much connection to actors today like in past. I mostly just look for story of movie or TV show.

 

[Gyakuto]

My film maker friend says that horror films tend to be the most likely to make a profi!

I generally find modern films so disappointing that I have to be really motivated to make the time to watch one and generally do so in short segments separated by doing chores, making cups of tea and sandwiches etc! It’s rare for me to sit through a film in one sitting.

 

[Buka]

A24 studios is pretty much all about backing original ideas and making movies that are original.

If a writer comes up with an original idea, really original, you could throw the damn script out the window on the 405 and somebody will find it.

The reason "original" scripts are so difficult to come up with is there are only so many types of stories. And these days, as opposed to say fifty years ago, there's so many outlets it blows the mind. Heck, the Hallmark channel makes as many movies a year as Hollywood did twenty years ago. And this is a great thing.

 

[Gyakuto]

The reason "original" scripts are so difficult to come up with is there are only so many types of stories. And these days, as opposed to say fifty years ago, there's so many outlets it blows the mind. Heck, the Hallmark channel makes as many movies a year as Hollywood did twenty years ago. And this is a great thing.

….and they are:

Overcoming the Monster
Rags to Riches
The Quest
Voyage and Return
Comedy
Tragedy
Rebirth.

 

[Dirty Dog]

I do watch movies and TV shows other than just martial arts, ninja, martial arts cop, cop, but horror, spy, suspense and space.

Just not big into comic movies.

But I will watch blade, robocop, terminator and zombie movies and vampire movies.

I will look at x-files and fringe tv show.

The things you listed are, without exception, comic movies.

 

[mograph]

Could we please stop with the "Hollywood makes this kind of movie," because it's more accurate to say "audiences want to see this kind of movie."

(Of course, Hollywood wants to make as much money as possible while spending as little as possible, and taking as little risk as possible. This is true, and why they love using existing properties -- they have a ready audience. There's that audience thing again.)

And just like model kit builders who think that masses of people would buy an injection-molded mass-market kit of some obscure ship that showed up in one Trek episode, we martial types need to realize that we are a niche market, and scripts that please us might not be expected to make enough money to get greenlit.

 

[moonhill99]

My film maker friend says that horror films tend to be the most likely to make a profi!

I generally find modern films so disappointing that I have to be really motivated to make the time to watch one and generally do so in short segments separated by doing chores, making cups of tea and sandwiches etc! It’s rare for me to sit through a film in one sitting.

The thing is you get some really niche type movies like mad max, dredd, waterworld, total recall, blade runner and some cyberpunk and space movies but I feel hollywood is really lock into self into big themes now days of comedy, drama, cop detective, spy movie, bit cop action even if it is tone down in number of movies than 80s and 90s, suspense, horror, comic movies and that is it.

They go with lot of reboots and remakes of afraid to spend money on some thing that may or may not do well. That why there no movie or TV shows like star wars, star trek, X-files, fringe, battlestar galactica. It takes too much money just to make season one that may or may not do well so they are afraid to try it so they do nothing.