Why is Eskrima (and FMA as a whole) full of Catholic practises despite HEMA and other European Swordsmanship Reconstruction neglecting Christianity?

[Bullsherdog]

Inspired by a post I saw. And as a SouthEast Asia (though not Filipino) who comes from in a country where Catholics are a minority and lives with Muslim neighbors who practise Silat as well as expat Pinoys of various backgrounds including Eskrimadors and other FMA practitioners, I've been provoked to ask after reading the below link.

https://www.reddit.com/r/wma/comments/hgf33i/does_anyone_think

Many fighters in the Philippines (and not just local styles but even boxers) frequently ask for intercession of Archangel Michael daily and some practitioners take it another level with novenas, etc.

Despite the fact that Eskrima and other FMA styles barely even say anything about Catholicism. While most surviving HEMA texts often mention Saints and traditions like rosary, etc. Even by the 19th century after the French Revolution brought a steady decline of the Church's power in Europe, manuals still mention prayers every now and than.

Despite that, it seems people who practise reconstruction of extinct European system not only completely ignores all these stuff but even are openly against the very Catholic sacraments that Medieval knights would have done!

Why despite the oldest texts of FMA in particular Eskrima lacking Catholic devotions and most organizations completely avoiding demanding the traditional Catholic sacraments, plenty of FMA practitioners make it a norm having Catholic practises in their schools esp having statues of Saint Michael? How come HEMA and other European reconstruction systems seems to be anti-religious in comparison despite the frequent mention of saints and Mary in texts even "magical Catholicism"?

I find it extremely ironic that a country so far away from Europe (being the only truly colonized territory of a European superpower in Asia for a long time) actually does the old traditions that the forefathers who wrote HEMA manuals would have done! And not just that but even across Latin America despite lacking a wide culture of organized fighting systems in the vein of Eastern martial arts, they also do keep the mysticism and spirituality that the European Knights who made these systems would have practised when they were alive! That modern people who say they practise HEMA absolutely avoids spirituality while colonized peoples in South America and the Philippines practically for the most part ironically keep a lot of HEMA's tradition more authentically!

And as a SEA Catholic this is what I observed with nearby neighbors from the PH in my country.

Why is this?

 

[drop bear]

Missionary's.

New Zealand does the same thing.

 

[ap Oweyn]

Inspired by a post I saw. And as a SouthEast Asia (though not Filipino) who comes from in a country where Catholics are a minority and lives with Muslim neighbors who practise Silat as well as expat Pinoys of various backgrounds including Eskrimadors and other FMA practitioners, I've been provoked to ask after reading the below link.

https://www.reddit.com/r/wma/comments/hgf33i/does_anyone_think

Many fighters in the Philippines (and not just local styles but even boxers) frequently ask for intercession of Archangel Michael daily and some practitioners take it another level with novenas, etc.

Despite the fact that Eskrima and other FMA styles barely even say anything about Catholicism. While most surviving HEMA texts often mention Saints and traditions like rosary, etc. Even by the 19th century after the French Revolution brought a steady decline of the Church's power in Europe, manuals still mention prayers every now and than.

Despite that, it seems people who practise reconstruction of extinct European system not only completely ignores all these stuff but even are openly against the very Catholic sacraments that Medieval knights would have done!

Why despite the oldest texts of FMA in particular Eskrima lacking Catholic devotions and most organizations completely avoiding demanding the traditional Catholic sacraments, plenty of FMA practitioners make it a norm having Catholic practises in their schools esp having statues of Saint Michael? How come HEMA and other European reconstruction systems seems to be anti-religious in comparison despite the frequent mention of saints and Mary in texts even "magical Catholicism"?

I find it extremely ironic that a country so far away from Europe (being the only truly colonized territory of a European superpower in Asia for a long time) actually does the old traditions that the forefathers who wrote HEMA manuals would have done! And not just that but even across Latin America despite lacking a wide culture of organized fighting systems in the vein of Eastern martial arts, they also do keep the mysticism and spirituality that the European Knights who made these systems would have practised when they were alive! That modern people who say they practise HEMA absolutely avoids spirituality while colonized peoples in South America and the Philippines practically for the most part ironically keep a lot of HEMA's tradition more authentically!

And as a SEA Catholic this is what I observed with nearby neighbors from the PH in my country.

Why is this?

I think it's just a question of conflating people and practices. FMA is a practice. But practices are manifest through people. So people are going to bring their "things" with them. I don't view FMA as being Catholic, but my first teachers were devoutly so. In fact, one of my first teachers went on to become a priest in residence at The Vatican. But that's a reflection of them as people, not the style itself.

They didn't incorporate Catholicism into the classes overtly. But they wore depictions of the saints around their necks. (I forget the term for this item, but you may know. Apologies.) We didn't open the class with prayer or anything, but I certainly saw plenty of prayer when spending time with them outside the class. It's just who they were as people. And we bring ourselves to the class, whether we mean to or not.

Now me, I'm not religious. I'm interested in religion, but I don't follow any faith tradition. So, when I teach, there's not a hint of that in "my" FMA. Nor has there been any hint of that when I've trained boxing (despite some number of boxers crossing themselves before a bout or thanking God for their victories). Styles exist through people. Maybe it's then easy to conflate those styles with the people who shared them.

The point is that Catholicism is very much a living, breathing tradition among many of those who teach FMA. Simple as that.

With HEMA, it's the opposite. It was a living tradition at the time of those writings. And, obviously, it's still a living tradition. But Western Europe isn't saturated in it. So, when new practitioners go back and revisit those writings, they're looking for something specific (Western martial technique) without walking around with that lens of Christianity firmly in place.

Again, it comes down to people. If the people who go looking for the Western martial tradition aren't doing so with a Christian disposition, then it won't be manifest in their teachings.

Since 1989, I've trained primarily with Filipino teachers (though not exclusively) in the U.S. And Catholicism was "in the air" in one case. Not in the other. But in neither case was it explicitly presented as part of the style.