Why hang a Korean flag in your Taekwondo dojang?

[mastercole]

Let's see... General Choi was the leader of the KTA, and founded the ITF. The KTA formed the Kukkiwon.

Yup. Looks like the Kukkiwon is part of the ITF.

You have your history in the wrong order. in 1961 CHOI Hong Hi was a leader and architect of the KTA and the KTA Central Gymnasium. The KTA Central Gymnasium existed before CHOI Hong Hi created his ITF in 1966. When he did create his ITF, all the new members where all members of the KTA. Many remained members, even after Choi left Korea.

In 1973, KTA changed the name of their central gym to Kukkiwon. That did not change anything but the name, it still functioned as their central gymnasium until February 5, 1980, years after Choi has left South Korea.

The KTA Central Gymnasium (later re-named the Kukkiwon) predates the ITF's formation.

 

[ETinCYQX]

Undecided if I will hang a Korean flag in my (eventual) permanent dojang. I sell the flag patches and encourage students to wear them if they'd like. I don't but it's because they would be too busy on my dobok which is dressed up enough IMO.

My last instructor and a very good friend of mine is South Korean, he does not wear a Korean flag, only a Canadian one.

I don't think it's a good idea, it's still somewhat politically loaded, but I'd love to have a Republic of Newfoundland patch for my dobok. Can't find one and I wouldn't wear it right now if I could, but eventually.

 

[mastercole]

Years ago I had flags hanging in the dojang. One's I brought back from other places, including a Korean flag.

These days nothing hangs on the walls of my dojangs, any where. No flags, no dan certificates, pictures, nothing. My students are not allowed to wear a dobok that has a patch on it that was not made into the uniform by the manufacture (like Adidas, Mooto, etc). They are not allowed to wear stripes on their black belts in our dojang either. No personalized wild looking batman looking uniforms either. Just a v-neck dobok. Of course any of that could change on a whim

Exception is if a student travels with a team, they can wear that team uniform, or visitors can wear whatever they like, which has had it's humorous moments.

 

[ETinCYQX]

Years ago I had flags hanging in the dojang. One's I brought back from other places, including a Korean flag.

These days nothing hangs on the walls of my dojangs, any where. No flags, no dan certificates, pictures, nothing. My students are not allowed to wear a dobok that has a patch on it that was not made into the uniform by the manufacture (like Adidas, Mooto, etc). They are not allowed to wear stripes on their black belts in our dojang either. No personalized wild looking batman looking uniforms either. Just a v-neck dobok. Of course any of that could change on a whim

Exception is if a student travels with a team, they can wear that team uniform, or visitors can wear whatever they like, which has had it's humorous moments.

Mastercole how strict are you on black collars? I have to admit I have a color belt who wears one. (My sister, 1st geup, I bought it for her because she was supposed to grade before she went in to surgery) and I used to wear one as a color belt. Just curious as to how you feel about it.

Taekwondo Canada issues Dojang certificates, if I had a permanent dojang I'd have that one hung on the training floor. My own Dan certificates can stay out of the way, maybe in an office or at home.

"Pending" is my Kukkiwon number at the moment, does the KKW issue dojang certificates? With any luck I'll get my KKW stuff shortly. I have to say I am very impressed with Taekwondo Canada and particularly with Ava Havaris, the current CEO. Great lady and it's a very tight ship now.

 

[puunui]

That is one of the reasons I used the date of 1974 or so as to what we may (OK you may not) consider to be the current incarnation of the KKW.

Kukkiwon was founded on November 30, 1972.

Perhaps it is a matter of perspective. Rather than saying my lineage is included in the KKW, I would take a more egalitarian approach that The KKW and I share some common lineage. The history can be traced to some common roots.

What are those common roots? The Chung Do Kwan? Oh Do Kwan? KTA?

 

[mastercole]

Mastercole how strict are you on black collars? I have to admit I have a color belt who wears one. (My sister, 1st geup, I bought it for her because she was supposed to grade before she went in to surgery) and I used to wear one as a color belt. Just curious as to how you feel about it.

Taekwondo Canada issues Dojang certificates, if I had a permanent dojang I'd have that one hung on the training floor. My own Dan certificates can stay out of the way, maybe in an office or at home.

"Pending" is my Kukkiwon number at the moment, does the KKW issue dojang certificates? With any luck I'll get my KKW stuff shortly. I have to say I am very impressed with Taekwondo Canada and particularly with Ava Havaris, the current CEO. Great lady and it's a very tight ship now.

Generally it is Poom collars for Poom holders, black colors for Dan holders, white collars for geup holders. Sometimes I can not get a certain Adidas Poom collar, so I get a black collar instead, but I try to avoid that. I stay to it as close as I logically can, being that I am such a logical person according to Dirty Dog

 

[ETinCYQX]

That's about the only thing I am lax with, collars. I'll basically let anyone who is a 1st geup and needs a new dobok to get a black collared one instead of replacing it again after their Dan grading. I'm not picky on doboks in general but I have come around to the importance lately.

 

[Dirty Dog]

Generally it is Poom collars for Poom holders, black colors for Dan holders, white collars for geup holders. Sometimes I can not get a certain Adidas Poom collar, so I get a black collar instead, but I try to avoid that. I stay to it as close as I logically can, being that I am such a logical person according to Dirty Dog

I never said you were logical. My point was that trying to claim that people who specifically seperated themselves from the Kukkiwon were still part of the Kukkiwon is illlogical. I don't seriously think the KKW is part of the ITF. I think they are, very clearly, two seperate and distinctly different groups. Sorry that the point was too subtle for you.

 

[mastercole]

I never said you were logical. My point was that trying to claim that people who specifically seperated themselves from the Kukkiwon were still part of the Kukkiwon is illlogical. I don't seriously think the KKW is part of the ITF. I think they are, very clearly, two seperate and distinctly different groups. Sorry that the point was too subtle for you.

Worth giving me a negative ding though, which was funny and weak on your part by the way. Actually, I'll try and earn it

Here is how I see your comments, in general. I notice that your Taekwondo knowledge is seriously lacking in most of your post, you don't have any facts to back up what you say because who ever taught you did not share them with you, or did not have them to give, so "in my opinion" you generally answer with emotion and feelings based on mis-information. But that is OK, I try not to say to much to you about it though. I generally let it slide because I really don't care, actually. It's to bad that you have been feed such poor information about Taekwondo, it shows. But you are happy with that, so, it is what it is. Why change

"I never gave anybody hell ... I just told the truth, and they thought it was hell." - Harry Truman

 

[puunui]

My point was that trying to claim that people who specifically seperated themselves from the Kukkiwon were still part of the Kukkiwon is illlogical.

If people choose to separate themselves, then that is their business. But that does not change the fact that their lineage is included within the kukkiwon, because all lineages tracing back to the five original kwan and the four annex kwan are included, by the kukkiwon.

it's like this. You belong to a family. You choose for whatever reason to separate yourself from your family. Is it so hard to understand that your family still considers you as part of the family and leaves the door open for you to return if at some point you wish to do so in the future?

You are looking at it from the point of view of the person who separated themselves from their family. mastercole and I are looking at it from the point of view of the family who considers every member, including those who separated, to be still part of the family. We are not scratching you off the family tree just because you got separated from the rest of your family by your father, grandfather or whoever. At some point the family feud will end, and you may wish to explore your family relationships. We are leaving the door open for you or anyone else to come back, if you so choose to do so.

I don't seriously think the KKW is part of the ITF.

Are you a member of the ITF?

I think they are, very clearly, two seperate and distinctly different groups.

Not so separate as you might think, especially given the high numbers of senior ITF members who have received kukkiwon assimilation dan certification. There are probably more former ITF members who have kukkiwon certification than there are current ITF members. I know that is true for Hawaii, because I was the one who made the recommendation for the kukkiwon assimilation dan for those former ITF members. And they, like you, also practice the taeguek and yudanja poomsae.

 

[Dirty Dog]

Worth giving me a negative ding though, which was funny and weak on your part by the way. Actually, I'll try and earn it

You are accusing me of giving you negative rep, I presume. That is untrue. If someone dinged your rep, it was not me.

Your insulting comments deleted, I'll not respond to that.

Incidentially, I notice that I've been given negative rep for my comment :
I never said you were logical. My point was that trying to claim that people who specifically seperated themselves from the Kukkiwon were still part of the Kukkiwon is illlogical. I don't seriously think the KKW is part of the ITF. I think they are, very clearly, two seperate and distinctly different groups. Sorry that the point was too subtle for you.

Unlike you, I won't accuse anybody. I'll merely state that unsigned rep, positive OR negative, means nothing to me.

 

[Dirty Dog]

Are you a member of the ITF?

I wouldn't consider myself a member, no. It's been well over 20 years since I trained in an ITF dojang. Frankly, I don't consider myself a member of the Kukkiwon either.

Not so separate as you might think, especially given the high numbers of senior ITF members who have received kukkiwon assimilation dan certification. There are probably more former ITF members who have kukkiwon certification than there are current ITF members. I know that is true for Hawaii, because I was the one who made the recommendation for the kukkiwon assimilation dan for those former ITF members. And they, like you, also practice the taeguek and yudanja poomsae.

So the Kukkiwon is the borg now? Got it. :rofl:

 

[ralphmcpherson]

I wouldn't consider myself a member, no. It's been well over 20 years since I trained in an ITF dojang. Frankly, I don't consider myself a member of the Kukkiwon either.



So the Kukkiwon is the borg now? Got it. :rofl:

you must remember you are dealing with the official "kukkiwon sign up commitee", who are here for one reason only, and that is to promote the kkw at every chance (even in a thread about a flag of all things). Everyone can see how one eyed they are but themselves. You make a very good point and most on here understand exactly where you are coming from. Some will never understand until they take their kukkiwon coloured glasses off.

 

[mastercole]

You are accusing me of giving you negative rep, I presume. That is untrue. If someone dinged your rep, it was not me.

Your insulting comments deleted, I'll not respond to that.

Incidentially, I notice that I've been given negative rep for my comment :
I never said you were logical. My point was that trying to claim that people who specifically seperated themselves from the Kukkiwon were still part of the Kukkiwon is illlogical. I don't seriously think the KKW is part of the ITF. I think they are, very clearly, two seperate and distinctly different groups. Sorry that the point was too subtle for you.

Unlike you, I won't accuse anybody. I'll merely state that unsigned rep, positive OR negative, means nothing to me.

Whatever you say

 

[mastercole]

you must remember you are dealing with the official "kukkiwon sign up commitee", who are here for one reason only, and that is to promote the kkw at every chance (even in a thread about a flag of all things). Everyone can see how one eyed they are but themselves. You make a very good point and most on here understand exactly where you are coming from. Some will never understand until they take their kukkiwon coloured glasses off.

Kukkiwon does not need our help. But you might, unless you were able to find your grandmaster and ask him some of the questions your instructor could not answer for you

 

[ralphmcpherson]

Kukkiwon does not need our help. But you might, unless you were able to find your grandmaster and ask him some of the questions your instructor could not answer for you

You assume I care about those questions and answers. If I really wanted to, I have many channels within my club where I can obtain that info, including my GM himself (he is one phone call away, although I wouldnt bother him with such pointless questions). Do I want/need those questions answered, will it help improve me as a martial artist? I dont think so. If I happen to stumble accross that info, then great. Would I go out of my way to find out? No, it really doesnt interest me that much. Now, back to flags.......

 

[mastercole]

You assume I care about those questions and answers. If I really wanted to, I have many channels within my club where I can obtain that info, including my GM himself (he is one phone call away, although I wouldnt bother him with such pointless questions). Do I want/need those questions answered, will it help improve me as a martial artist? I dont think so.

Right.................

 

[jks9199]

Folks,

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Jim Sheeran
jks9199
MT Asst. Administrator

 

[Earl Weiss]

Kukkiwon was founded on November 30, 1972.




What are those common roots? The Chung Do Kwan? Oh Do Kwan? KTA?

Yes, at least those. Even back further to Shotokan , Shorin & Shorei systems.

 

[Earl Weiss]

Well, we have to look at exactly what the Kukkiwon was and is. .

New thread started.