Why do people think grappling arts always beat striking arts?

[RTKDCMB]

Yeah, because most MA schools utilize fancy kicks and forms in order to wow the crowds.

Depends on the school. Showing fancy kicks and spectacular aerial kicks at a demonstration designed to gain students can be detrimental as many people will decide not to join because they think it is too difficult and that they will never be able to do them.

 

[Hanzou]

Depends on the school. Showing fancy kicks and spectacular aerial kicks at a demonstration designed to gain students can be detrimental as many people will decide not to join because they think it is too difficult and that they will never be able to do them.

I never said such tactics would appeal to everyone. I'm saying that its easier to "sell" a MA to ignorant masses when you have people doing fancy stuff. Hence why so many children enjoy watching Power Rangers and Ninja Turtles.

Bjj never had that advantage, so their practitioners decided to show how effective it was against more fancy styles.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

You also have to change your striking style of combat grapplers.it is different than the one used against strikers.

True. The converse is, of course, also true. I wouldn't want to go against a striker using the same grappling I'd use in a no-strikes contest (like the Judo I originally learned).

 

[Buka]

For you strikers here (yes, we all have some grapple experience, but you know what I mean)...given the choice, who would you rather fight, another striker or a grappler?

 

[Jaeimseu]

For you strikers here (yes, we all have some grapple experience, but you know what I mean)...given the choice, who would you rather fight, another striker or a grappler?

If I'm trying to win, I'd rather fight a striker. If I'm just trying not to get hurt, give me the grappler. This assumes that I'm equal to the striker in ability.


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[drop bear]

Grapplers will mess you up.

 

[Jaeimseu]

Grapplers will mess you up.

Yikes! Don't reach for the ground like that.


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[drop bear]

Yikes! Don't reach for the ground like that.


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Breakfalls re cool.

I have known grapplers with some bad attitudes and they will just break stuff on you.

It is downright scary.

 

[Jaeimseu]

Breakfalls re cool.

I have known grapplers with some bad attitudes and they will just break stuff on you.

It is downright scary.

True that. Lots of trust required in grappling training partners. Tapping out quickly doesn't hurt, either. At my age I don't have any need to train with bad attitudes.


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[JP3]

Bottom line of this discussion is, the guy who is able to put his game on the other guy first, ends up on top. Literally.

You last two guys posting about how grapplers can mess you up, thank you, I resemble that remark -- but without the intentional and bad attitude to try to break the training p[artner. That's no fun, you only get to practice the technique 2 times. Once on left side, once on the right. J/K !!

Y'all know this discussion has been going on for a long, long time, right? My first exposure to it was some MA rag mag back when I was... I think 7 years old. Something like Black Belt, but I can't remember if that was it or not, BB may not have even been in publishing then... that was 1975. I remember back then reading through a picture article of "Karate vs. Judo... Which is More Effective?" Yes, one of those... Anyway, they got no farther than anyone has in the years since trying to nail this one down. It's not chicken and egg theory, but the logical circle is similar. If I do then he can do and then I can do but that means he can do which lets me do etc. etc. etc. I would bet you that back in Ancient (Insert old country of choice here) folks had these same discussions and the same sort of ego-based conversations ot started and blood was spilled, even if it was only a bloody nose from someone popping somebody else -- without actually resolving the issue.

I'm going into my 20th year after switching primarily to grappling stuff..., and I did striking stuff for 25 years as well (overlap of about 10 years in there), I'm not 80). The reason for this is simple... joints start bothering ya at age 35, no clue why, but there it is. Practicing grappling stuff (practicing correctly, mind ya) is easier on the body than hard-core training of the striking stuff. And, we all know it at least as effective if you need it to defend yourself or a loved one(s). I absolutely love my aikijutsu, it's quite elgant... and very, very nasty in that elegant way.

The above mess being said, grappling arts have one huge whole, and it's a hard one to get around unless you don't "engage" at all (e.g. aikido movement, stuff like that). Against more than one opponent, it can put you in a very bad situation if you get tangled up witht he first guy and let the other guy get behind, beside, on top of you while you are tied up. Granted, you are pulling off wings and hitting the first guy with the planet and very rapidly lowering the odds (hopefully) but the other guy still has the opening for a free shot, and in my opinion, that's bad. Much better to be range-defensive (movement based stuff, and I put arts like TKD and aikido in here together in this, as odd as that sounds, having done both, the movements skills (NOT the stances, Ack!) are quite parallel when facing a baddie.

Personally, if faced with a single bad guy (but we always train ther's never a single bad guy, right... at least, you should be if you are a self-defense school/training) then I'd not be averse to going tot he ground and giggling while I wait for the cops to show up, not even trying to "win" just keeping the situation under control. Grapplers can do that, strikers can't.

But.... more than one? They get the catalog, probably starting out witht he Thai-boxing to the first one to get within range and the Hapkido after that, along witht he street-do learned by bouncing for a bit (it is just NOT the same outside the club as inside the dojo, you guys).

Man, it's early in the morning and I must be feeling loquacious to have posted this novella already. Apologies!

 

[Buka]

But it was a good novella, you loquacious old man, you.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Yikes! Don't reach for the ground like that.


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Yes. Also, don't celebrate like that after injuring someone.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

True that. Lots of trust required in grappling training partners. Tapping out quickly doesn't hurt, either. At my age I don't have any need to train with bad attitudes.


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I think this is one of the reasons I teach. Now I have more control over the safety in the training space. I'm not at all interested in training with someone who is overly competitive, to the point they're willing to hurt someone to win a point/match/bragging rights.

 

[drop bear]

Personally, if faced with a single bad guy (but we always train ther's never a single bad guy, right... at least, you should be if you are a self-defense school/training) then I'd not be averse to going tot he ground and giggling while I wait for the cops to show up, not even trying to "win" just keeping the situation under control. Grapplers can do that, strikers can't.

Yeah. Training against multiple attackers generally looks like this.

 

[JowGaWolf]

Yeah. Training against multiple attackers generally looks like this.

I don't know if you noticed it, but he had a weak stance, and the reason he ended up on the ground was because the guy behind him swept his legs.

 

[drop bear]

I don't know if you noticed it, but he had a weak stance, and the reason he ended up on the ground was because the guy behind him swept his legs.

The reason he ended up on the ground is because there were ten guys beating on him. Which is what happens most of the time.

 

[JowGaWolf]

The reason he ended up on the ground is because there were ten guys beating on him. Which is what happens most of the time.

Nope. play the video slow and you'll see the sweep that take him down. It was probably more of a leg kick, but when I played the video at a slower speed you can see that they others knew that he would fall to the ground as a result of his legs being kicked from under him.

It was a pretty good initiation attack

 

[Ironbear24]

First off that video is stupid for several reasons. One being that is not a real fight. That is what we call "getting jumped in" it is what you have to so get into a gang. It is an initiation ritual.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

I don't know if you noticed it, but he had a weak stance, and the reason he ended up on the ground was because the guy behind him swept his legs.

Agree that he has a weak stance. If his feet are not that close together, it's not that easy to sweep him down from that angle. But if his feet are apart, his opponent behind him could kick his groin.

 

[Ironbear24]

When you are getting jumped in you cannot.

1. Cry
2. Fight back.
3. Call for help.
It is to show you are tough enough to be in the gang.