why do people hate kata

[hedgehogey]

Matt thornton, of the straight blast gym, on kata:

Why are forms not 'Alive'?

Believe it or not, there are still a few people out there that feel 'form', kata, or djuru training have some place for an athlete interested in performance. Why this belief still persists is a mystery, but lets see if we can lay the dead patterns to rest.
The main reason people falsely believe forms have some sort of value is usually listed as "muscle memory". The idea that a move repeated enough times, becomes smoother, or more accessible during an altercation. Repeating a move over and over again in the air will do absolutely nothing for your reflexes or so called 'muscle memory'. In fact, repeating a move or series of moves over and over again in the same pattern and sequence will actually be counter productive to your bodies ability to respond quickly.
First, there is no TIMING, without a resisting opponent in front of you. Since there is no timing to be had, your reflexes, or response time against a resisting opponent, will not change, increase, or be helped in the least.
Second, there is no impact, as there is against a heavy bag. So there will be no benefit to your strength, body mechanics, or conditioning. In fact, your body mechanics may become altered in correctly due to the fact that you are not making impact against anything, but merely striking 'air'.
Thirdly, even when shadowboxing (another comparison morticians like to make when making zombies), you never want to repeat the same series of movements to many times in a row! This is a basic rule all boxing coaches are very familiar with. Go to the well to many times and your opponent becomes 'wise' to your arsenal. An example would be a boxer whom always hooked off the jab. After the second attempt he becomes predictable, and easy to set up for a counter attack or knockout. This is why it's important to make sure your athletes shadowbox fluidly. Watch them to insure that they are NOT repeating the same sequence of movements, in the same order, over and over again.
One basic difference that can be seen between a JKD Concepts Instructor, and a performance orientated Coach, is the difference in patterns. JKD Concepts Instructors, and indeed most 'traditional' Martial Artists, are consistently looking to learn, memorize, and repeat more and more patterns. A performance orientated Coach is always looking to break patterns, and movements that are repeated in the same order. A Coach should instead be watching his athlete to insure that when shadowboxing, working the heavybag, or any other piece of equipment, that athlete is not always repeating the same route of movements or combinations. This makes a fighter robotic, stiff, predictable, and creates bad habits. There really is no justification for maintaining the antiquated bad methodology of 'form' training.

What about solo training?

That's a good question and one I get asked allot. If you are blessed to have enough extra time after working your stand up, clinch and ground games against resisting opponents, then you should be concentrating on conditioning. Endurance training, resistance exercises, and stretching would all rank high on the list. Even reading a book would be a much better use of your time the memorizing and repeating a dead pattern. If you are grossly overweight then you should be working that endurance training daily. If you lack a good muscular physique, then you should be weight training correctly in order to avoid injury.There is always plenty for us to be working on!

Throw all the patterns and forms away. Stay fluid, and stay 'ALIVE'.

-Matt (Mono Loco) Thornton

 

[goju.glenn]

Matt thornton, of the straight blast gym, on kata:

Throw all the patterns and forms away. Stay fluid, and stay 'ALIVE'.

I read what Matt has to say. The point I think he is missing is not all people train in the MA for "combat".

For people like myself, training is more a way for excercise of the body and mind - trying to obtain "perfection" in movements whether they be kata, kihon or bunkai etc.

Secondly, would anyone agree that "muscle memory" when training IS important? When you train, you are practicing your technqiues in preperation if you ever have to use your skills in self defence. You want to be able to strike an area without "concious" thought. By practicing your tecnhqiues repeatibly, aren't you building up your ability to strike with efficency?

Make sense? :idunno:

 

[MJS]

I read what Matt has to say. The point I think he is missing is not all people train in the MA for "combat".

For people like myself, training is more a way for excercise of the body and mind - trying to obtain "perfection" in movements whether they be kata, kihon or bunkai etc.

I agree and I've said the same things many times myself. Some people train for SD, some for weight loss, an activity outside of work, etc.

Secondly, would anyone agree that "muscle memory" when training IS important? When you train, you are practicing your technqiues in preperation if you ever have to use your skills in self defence. You want to be able to strike an area without "concious" thought. By practicing your tecnhqiues repeatibly, aren't you building up your ability to strike with efficency?

If you read further you'll notice that expands on that.

Repeating a move over and over again in the air will do absolutely nothing for your reflexes or so called 'muscle memory'

If you really read into what hes saying, hes pretty much stating that by not having the partner IFO you to give you that resistance will effect your reaction time. How can you learn timing if nobody is standing there? You can do a tech. 1,000 times, but if you never train it with someone really trying to hit you, you'll never know if you actually got out of the way of that punch! Sure, boxers shadow box, but they also get into the ring.

Mike

 

[OC Kid]

Kata puts the Art into Martial Art, other wise it is just brawling. The kempo stylist who post here says his school does a lot of kata. Kempo has "Forms" but kata shouldnt be the main stay of training. It does however develope

Discipline
Concentration
Respect
Self Confidence
Sense of achievement.

I came out of a japanese system (shodan) and the system I trained in was a electic system of what ever works use it. But it had the Japanese forms and basics.

Why keep the forms, well it was the identity of the system. No matter what we learned where it came from, the katas kept and continue to keep the system together. All our instructor teach different, different backgrounds experiances. Some are fighters first, some are forms first some are weapons, self defense or a mixture of all those things....but what holds the system together is the kata.

Example I started teaching disadvantaged kids. I am also teaching my son. My son like fighting so I was pushing his fighting training highly disciplined, hard fast work outs ( he did learn the basics and forms hes up to pinion 4 now) . the rest of the kids didnt like that, they just wanted to learn self defense so, II lost some students do to the rigorous training after talking to them I now teach the kids basic stances punches and self defense at a slower speed "the art" so to speak. I now teach the fighting class one day a week straight fighting thai, with american kick boxing foot work and kempo angles and blitzes bag work focus gloves/thai pads/heavy/double ended bags ect. My schedule is ;
Mon; fighting training
Tues/Thurs; Straight traditional karate
Sat; individual fighting training avail to the students

But they all need the forms to increase in rank period.

 

[kroh]

Hey there All...

I thought the Thornton reply was very well put and convincing...but let me ask you this... if repetative action is not an important part of training...does he just do conditioning and then practice each move once so as not to be repetative?

I disagree with Mr. Thorntons reply on several levels because based on his post, I feel he has never truly understood what kata is. And how can you comment on something you only understand in part.

There is also another point to be made here that some of the New Age Kung FU-ligans are missing. People have trained using these methods for centuries to teach people how to fight durring wartime. All these people who say that it doesn't work...How many of them have gone to war with just their bare hands or a big knife or sword in their belt? And what about military units of today. When they know what their objective is...they practice in a scenario setting over and over again on what they are going to do to take down the target. Room clearing, trench fighting, armored moving formations...they train these "patterned" responses and when things do not fit the pattern, they brake from the pattern and react on instinct based on what they have done before.

Point is...kata is not dancing...it is a lesson plan. You are meant to combine different parts of the lesson in various orders to train various responses using TWO people ;after you are comfortable with the basic pattern.
Consider this... You were taught the alphabet using that stupid song. However ...you do not repeat the song with each letter until you get to the letter you want to make a full word. The pattern teaches a concept. Once you understand the concepts the pattern becomes unnecessary for the action that it once represented. The only reason to keep singing that stupid song is so that later we can "pass on" the lesson to others.

So is kata useless...not at all. Do I expect everyone to agree with me on that fact...not at all. The only way to truely show them it's value is to show it to them on their terms. Besides...in an age where everything is "new this and new that", the people who cut on kata for favor of new techniques will not take our word for it.

However...everything they think they have ever thought of as a "new way" of doing things... somebody already probably figured out and have used it before. Consider the fact that in japan...before the age of defined styles...the soldiers of the day did whatever worked to win the battle. A few centuries later, some Lee character comes along and says it like no one ever thought of it before. JKD becomes a new way to look at martial arts. But did he enlighten us or just remind us....

Thanks for the minute...
WalT

 

[MJS]

Kata puts the Art into Martial Art, other wise it is just brawling. The kempo stylist who post here says his school does a lot of kata. Kempo has "Forms" but kata shouldnt be the main stay of training. It does however develope

I have to disagree with that. Its only brawling as you call it, if 2 students get into the ring and just start throwing crazy, sloppy punches, with no technique. Boxing has no kata, but they get into the ring and work drills, which in a way, is their kata. You need someone who can guide the student to properly execute the strikes. Without that, then yes, its brawling.

Again, I've done forms/kata for a long time and still do them. As for holding the system together...I'd say that they play a part in holding it, but I wouldnt say that they are the main support. Again, as its been said before, everybody trains for a different reason. Kata are not a bad thing, but if your goal of the arts was self defense rather than just an activity to do after work, then getting that hands on training in the ring, and having a live person IFO you to train your techs. is the best way to go.

Mike

 

[MJS]

Hey there All...

I thought the Thornton reply was very well put and convincing...but let me ask you this... if repetative action is not an important part of training...does he just do conditioning and then practice each move once so as not to be repetative?

Like I said before...if you read into what he's saying, hes saying that repetative training without a live partner is not going to help you.

I disagree with Mr. Thorntons reply on several levels because based on his post, I feel he has never truly understood what kata is. And how can you comment on something you only understand in part.

I'm sure he has seen kata. He has commented on some of the patters in the FMA as well and compared them to kata. Again, nothing wrong with a drill, but if you're not applying it 'live' then what good is it doing you???

There is also another point to be made here that some of the New Age Kung FU-ligans are missing. People have trained using these methods for centuries to teach people how to fight durring wartime. All these people who say that it doesn't work...How many of them have gone to war with just their bare hands or a big knife or sword in their belt? And what about military units of today. When they know what their objective is...they practice in a scenario setting over and over again on what they are going to do to take down the target. Room clearing, trench fighting, armored moving formations...they train these "patterned" responses and when things do not fit the pattern, they brake from the pattern and react on instinct based on what they have done before.

So we're comparing the fights of the past to today??? I dont think that people dress the same way today as the warriors back then. As for the military of today....the senario training that they do is the same as the 'alive' training that Thorton is talking about.

Point is...kata is not dancing...it is a lesson plan. You are meant to combine different parts of the lesson in various orders to train various responses using TWO people ;after you are comfortable with the basic pattern.
Consider this... You were taught the alphabet using that stupid song. However ...you do not repeat the song with each letter until you get to the letter you want to make a full word. The pattern teaches a concept. Once you understand the concepts the pattern becomes unnecessary for the action that it once represented. The only reason to keep singing that stupid song is so that later we can "pass on" the lesson to others.

Kata is teaching you moves in a preset fashion. While doing the kata, we are assuming the attackers are going to be in a certain spot, doing a certain move. Even if you did a kata with someone attacking you, you are still placing the people in just the right spot and having them throw just the right attack and giving no resistance. Now, if you took a tech., did it slow, and then had your partner add resistance, movement, etc. dont you think you'd get better results?? Again, hes not saying that being repetitive is bad, but just make sure you do it with someone.

So is kata useless...not at all. Do I expect everyone to agree with me on that fact...not at all. The only way to truely show them it's value is to show it to them on their terms. Besides...in an age where everything is "new this and new that", the people who cut on kata for favor of new techniques will not take our word for it.

So you're saying that 'new' is a bad thing??? Things change and improve all the time. Cars, medicine, computers, technology, etc. has all changed and still does. If someone has a better way of doing something, or can make an improvement on something old that I've been doing, then I'm all for it!!!

However...everything they think they have ever thought of as a "new way" of doing things... somebody already probably figured out and have used it before. Consider the fact that in japan...before the age of defined styles...the soldiers of the day did whatever worked to win the battle. A few centuries later, some Lee character comes along and says it like no one ever thought of it before. JKD becomes a new way to look at martial arts. But did he enlighten us or just remind us....

You're right. There have always been punches and kicks, but like I said above, there is always a way to improve on something.

Mike

 

[Old Fat Kenpoka]

Why do people hate Kata was the topic of this thread...

Two reasons for two types of people:

1) Martial Artists who do Kata and hate Kata feel that way because... they have to spend time memorizing and practicing preset movements which have nothing to do with sparring, self-defense, or combat. People not interested in actual combat do not mind practicing these preset moves and do not hate Kata.

2) Fighters who do not practice kata and hate Kata feel that way because...they realize that practicing movements in a preset fashion does not preapre a person for sparring, combat or self-defense and they are embarrassed to be classified as "Martial Artists" along with those who learn Katas. Fighters who understand the difference between training to fight and training for health/self-improvement do not hate Kata--they just know it won't help them meet their goals.

 

[tshadowchaser]

Old Fat Kenpoka what you have said might be correct if the student had never been shown or just did not understand the self defence moves with in a kata.
As for being ahamed of being a martial artest because you do kata i would have to say the person had little understaning of what they studied and might do better studying knitting .
True timeing and the reaction to pain is not learned in kata (unless you are being tested doing Sanchin) but one can take varrious movemnts out of a kata and usethem while fighting.

 

[Old Fat Kenpoka]

Old Fat Kenpoka what you have said might be correct if the student had never been shown or just did not understand the self defence moves with in a kata.
As for being ahamed of being a martial artest because you do kata i would have to say the person had little understaning of what they studied and might do better studying knitting .
True timeing and the reaction to pain is not learned in kata (unless you are being tested doing Sanchin) but one can take varrious movemnts out of a kata and usethem while fighting.

Sorry TS: I disagree.

The argument that people do not understand the self-defense application of Kata movements is perhaps the strongest argument for not doing Kata. Why not just skip the kata memorization and dance practice and work on understanding, applying, and improving those techniques upon a resisting opponent?

Fighters who practice technique are embarrassed to be grouped with Kata practitioners who suffer from the error you highlighted: not understanding and being able to apply their system's techniques.

You've got it backwards here. Techniques do not come from Katas. Katas come by stringing techniques together. If an art has to teach Katas in order to teach the techniques then they are teaching things in reverse order. Teach the basics, then teach the techniques. If you want to teach fighting, teach fighting and skip the katas. If you want to teach dancing, teach the katas.

 

[OC Kid]

I have to disagree with that. Its only brawling as you call it, if 2 students get into the ring and just start throwing crazy, sloppy punches, with no technique. Boxing has no kata, but they get into the ring and work drills, which in a way, is their kata. You need someone who can guide the student to properly execute the strikes. Without that, then yes, its brawling.

Again, I've done forms/kata for a long time and still do them. As for holding the system together...I'd say that they play a part in holding it, but I wouldnt say that they are the main support. Again, as its been said before, everybody trains for a different reason. Kata are not a bad thing, but if your goal of the arts was self defense rather than just an activity to do after work, then getting that hands on training in the ring, and having a live person IFO you to train your techs. is the best way to go.

Mike

I have trained TMA / fought Muay Thai in the ring competitively as a amature as well as American Kickboxing and Point fighting.
You took just one portion of my thread. You need to read and think about the rest of it also. If the kata dont hold a loose system together what does?

 

[kroh]

Like I said before...if you read into what he's saying, hes saying that repetative training without a live partner is not going to help you.

My point exactly sir...

I'm sure he has seen kata. He has commented on some of the patters in the FMA as well and compared them to kata. Again, nothing wrong with a drill, but if you're not applying it 'live' then what good is it doing you???

Again..Yessir ...in that we agree...

So we're comparing the fights of the past to today??? I dont think that people dress the same way today as the warriors back then. As for the military of today....the senario training that they do is the same as the 'alive' training that Thorton is talking about.

The fights of today and yesterday are nothing more than two people who can't talk out a problem...whether it be two people or a hundred thousand in an army. In the form of HTH...we still fight basically the same... AS for the alive trining...What is it...a series of movements used to train an action which they use for a time and then discard in order to create a new sequence...Kata ...throw away kata...very inovative...still kata though...

Kata is teaching you moves in a preset fashion. While doing the kata, we are assuming the attackers are going to be in a certain spot, doing a certain move. Even if you did a kata with someone attacking you, you are still placing the people in just the right spot and having them throw just the right attack and giving no resistance. Now, if you took a tech., did it slow, and then had your partner add resistance, movement, etc. dont you think you'd get better results?? Again, hes not saying that being repetitive is bad, but just make sure you do it with someone

.

Actually, The kata training many have recieved in their training includes principles for the "alive " aspect of training...including resistance and other principles...real kata is not a series of moves for one person...That is the tournament circuit in this country altering the way we train. Kata should be used, not demonstrated, and if you are applying it correctly...there are tangible results. The point I am trying to make is that because of a lack of understanding of Japanese teaching methodology in this country, we loose sight of the correct way to use this teaching tool. This often prompts us to seek out something that is less evasive...something we can more readily get our head around.

So you're saying that 'new' is a bad thing??? Things change and improve all the time. Cars, medicine, computers, technology, etc. has all changed and still does. If someone has a better way of doing something, or can make an improvement on something old that I've been doing, then I'm all for it!!!

Actually, I am a firm believer in the statement that tradition is resistance to change. One seeks out tradition in order to live within a frozen period in time. Tradtion to a point is good because it shows us how things were built from an older form. However, tradition without inovation is tanamount to being a dinosaur...you were mighty in your time but when it came time to adapt, you couldn't handle it and you either ended up dead or in a museum. I am all for the better way to do something and when it comes along I analyze it, and if valid, embrace it. In that we also agree...

You're right. There have always been punches and kicks, but like I said above, there is always a way to improve on something.

I absolutely agree...

Thank you for your insights Mike, I look forward to your next post on this subject Sir.

All quotes were from a message written by MJS in response to one of my messages. Please take the time to read MJS' insights on this subject if you haven't done so. A very good read and full of good ideas that got me thinking...

Sincerely,
WalT

 

[MJS]

I have trained TMA / fought Muay Thai in the ring competitively as a amature as well as American Kickboxing and Point fighting.
You took just one portion of my thread. You need to read and think about the rest of it also. If the kata dont hold a loose system together what does?

Kata is not the only thing in a system. You have kata, SD, punches, kicks, footwork, etc. Everything has its place. I really dont think that an art is gonna die w/o the kata.

Mike

 

[MJS]

The fights of today and yesterday are nothing more than two people who can't talk out a problem...whether it be two people or a hundred thousand in an army. In the form of HTH...we still fight basically the same... AS for the alive trining...What is it...a series of movements used to train an action which they use for a time and then discard in order to create a new sequence...Kata ...throw away kata...very inovative...still kata though...

Alive training....Often when I talk about that, I always hear people say that they are doing it to. That may very well be possible. To give another example. Someone grabbing your lapel. Now, to start off doing that tech. its best to go slow and get the fine points down. Gradually begin to add resistance and movement. If someone was grabbing you, chances are they'll be attempting to move you, slam you into a wall, etc. If someone always does the tech. w/o that movement, whats gonna happen when someone actually starts to move them. After I posted earlier today, I was thinking of more examples. Take boxing combos. You have a jab, cross, bob/weave, and hook. Now, during shadowboxing, the boxer does that drill over and over. He could do it 1,000 times, but if he never does it on the pads or against another person, how is he ever going to know if its gonna work? In a sense, those combos are his kata. In a kata, you need to do the moves exactly in the same fashion, thereby making it a preset series of movements. How can we predict what our opp. is going to do in a fight? We can't. Now, if you took a part of the kata, and used it as a SD tech, thats fine, but it needs to be done on someone to get the feel if its really going to work. Another example. In my BJJ class, we'll take techs. such as an armbar. We work them slow to get the fine points down and then we have our opp. resist and try to prevent us from getting that armbar. That is alive training!!! We are testing ourselves to see if we can get it or not.

.

Actually, The kata training many have recieved in their training includes principles for the "alive " aspect of training...including resistance and other principles...real kata is not a series of moves for one person...That is the tournament circuit in this country altering the way we train. Kata should be used, not demonstrated, and if you are applying it correctly...there are tangible results. The point I am trying to make is that because of a lack of understanding of Japanese teaching methodology in this country, we loose sight of the correct way to use this teaching tool. This often prompts us to seek out something that is less evasive...something we can more readily get our head around.

Good point!!! However, as I stated in a past post regarding kata, and some of my exp. with them, I've found very few who actually understand what the moves are. Simply saying, "Well, its done that way...........well, because it is." is not a very good answer IMO.

Actually, I am a firm believer in the statement that tradition is resistance to change. One seeks out tradition in order to live within a frozen period in time. Tradtion to a point is good because it shows us how things were built from an older form. However, tradition without inovation is tanamount to being a dinosaur...you were mighty in your time but when it came time to adapt, you couldn't handle it and you either ended up dead or in a museum. I am all for the better way to do something and when it comes along I analyze it, and if valid, embrace it. In that we also agree...

Good point!

Thank you for your insights Mike, I look forward to your next post on this subject Sir.

All quotes were from a message written by MJS in response to one of my messages. Please take the time to read MJS' insights on this subject if you haven't done so. A very good read and full of good ideas that got me thinking...

You're quite welcome! I'm glad that I could offer the ideas that I did. I also feel that you brought up many good points as well, and I thank you for that. Again, I'm not against kata, though my posts may sound that way. I just feel that relying on them to learn practical fighting is not the key. Will they help? Sure, but only, as we both said, if the person doing them has an understanding of what they are doing. Having that, as well as adding some alive training to your routine will most likely produce some excellent results.

Mike

 

[kroh]

I've found very few who actually understand what the moves are. Simply saying, "Well, its done that way...........well, because it is." is not a very good answer IMO.

Individuals who teach this way are actually derelect in their duties as teachers and should not be educating anyone in matters they do not understand. People exposed to these kind of answers should take this as a huge warning bell and find some where else to train. The Japanese actually have a good system regarding instructors. You get a black belt and that certifies you in that system, but to teach you need to receive another certification that licenses you as a teacher. IN the JKD program where I train, you need a seperate license to teach...that way it is kind of like quality control for the head honcho. Good stuff.

You're quite welcome! I'm glad that I could offer the ideas that I did. I also feel that you brought up many good points as well, and I thank you for that. Again, I'm not against kata, though my posts may sound that way. I just feel that relying on them to learn practical fighting is not the key.

Thank you for your insights, Sir...I am really enjoying the conversation. Have a great day...
Regards
WalT :asian:

 

[Chizikunbo]

i am a blue belt in go-ju ryu and i always read articles that are so anti-kata.What is with you people kata have been preformed since the begining and they trained for real combat not like us who mostly do it for sport .What makes these so called reality based martial arts think they have it figured out .Kata are not preformed to teach self defense,but are used as a conditioning tool.Also to fine tune technique,teach accuracy and control.After all these methods have been used for hunderds of years and we dismiss them because we think we know it all.I think its a shame to see a black who does not teach kata ,but a guess i am a traditionalist . please fell free to give tour thoughts

Kata are the backbone of traditional martial arts, they contain all of the self defense techniques as well as serving as conditioning tools, withought kata there would be no Goju or Shotokan, oroTE in general, the kata were passed down from the masters of old for a reason for the purpoe of them being analyzed, to find the bunkai, that is the true art. But some people like Gichen Funakoshi dilluted the kata to where you may if you are lucky find a bunkai technique in one of them so I quote Choki Motobu:
"Funakoshi had great teachers but only learned the outside of karate...He is just a Shamisen player...hes a confindence trickster with a silver tounge...If he fought me I would kick his a** all of the way back to Okinawa..."
--Choki Motobu
Conversely, Motobu referred to Funakoshi’s karate as a Shamisen (3 stringed Okinawan guitar), beautiful on the outside but hollow on the inside.

Kata is karate itself...

 

[hippy]

few people hate kata forever. we all go through cyles.

u may start an art, with the idea of simply learning to fight. so u learn the techniques, then the combos, then u spar, completely ignoring the kata, and barely touching the self-defence aspects.
then something as simple as injury could put a stop to the sparring, so u go back to non-contact technique, up and down the room. as you're no longer spending the majority of your time sparring, a student can now approach, and ask for help with their defences (one step sparring, locks, chokes etc)when u have run out of the defences u had been taught, u try to 'make-up' easy ones, by stripping the basic kata the student knows, and putting a more practical spin on them. when u have done many of these, and realised there are far more than the student needs for his next few gradings, u actually start to do the katas more and more. now u are doing nothing but kata, analising each few moves. asking yourself "what am i doing here?" "what could i turn this into?". eventually u could over train in kata, to the point that u are sick of them, and go back to sparring. and the cyle continues....

now you understand that it is important to learn all the disciplines of the style, kata included, just because u dont specialise in kata, does not mean it should just be dismissed. those that say they hate kata, usually means they dont understand them. but something will happen to them, the day will come when they start training in nothing but kata, if only to catch up on their own learning and understanding of the art.

 

[DeLamar.J]

i am a blue belt in go-ju ryu and i always read articles that are so anti-kata.What is with you people kata have been preformed since the begining and they trained for real combat not like us who mostly do it for sport .What makes these so called reality based martial arts think they have it figured out .Kata are not preformed to teach self defense,but are used as a conditioning tool.Also to fine tune technique,teach accuracy and control.After all these methods have been used for hunderds of years and we dismiss them because we think we know it all.I think its a shame to see a black who does not teach kata ,but a guess i am a traditionalist . please fell free to give tour thoughts

People are impatient and want quick results, and should go to the local boxing gym until they want to become more technical and refine and perfect there technique. We teach karate one class and boxing the next so we normally dont loose students for this reason. I think it is very important to add some practical training that will give the student some feeling of accomplishment so they dont quit. Some people just get discouraged to easy and think they are not tough enough or smart enough, its up to the instructor to keep them comming back for more.

 

[gyaku-zuki queen]

.Kata are not preformed to teach self defense,but are used as a conditioning tool.Also to fine tune technique,teach accuracy and control.After all these methods have been used for hunderds of years and we dismiss them because we think we know it all.I think its a shame to see a black who does not teach kata ,but a guess i am a traditionalist .

a black belt who does not teach kata? wow, and i thought i seen everythin...

i like kata.. even though i'm a kumite person, i dont (no offence to you people who do) like the views of the people who say kata is stupid and you would rather learn to spend all of your time fighting. for one, i know kata really helps out your kumite, give you better form etc. and one thing, i would like to say, it is WAY harder and takes much more training to be a National kata champion than a Kumite champion. I (yes i do) admire those kata people who are really good. i get more tired doing a long kata then i do in my heaviest fight. everything has to be perfect when you are competing in kata. one little slip, break of the concentration, anything, and you lose the match. for kumite, if your letting out a bit, you can always recover. but with kata, everything has to be perfect. ..*my 2 cents..

 

[jakmak52]

I used to despise kata, just a sparring fool I was. Then I saw some grandmasters at tournaments performing and my jaw dropped. Ever since then I've been hooked. My primary tournament kata is Bassai Dai (Major) which traditionally a Shotokan form, even though ITF Tae Kwon Do is my main style.

Do the kata.