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most people who "hate kata" have not been properly trained in kata and do not understand kata. that is the whole thing in a nutshell. if you have been properly trained in kata and bunkai and understand what kata is and is there for you will like kata.
Not sure if I totally agree with you on this. Just because someone is shown the kata and bunkai does not mean they will automatically like kata. What about the people who have been guided down this path and still prefer kumite or self defense over kata?
In the spirit of bushido!
Rob
all the self defense and other techniques are in the kata... so why would one be preferred over the other. your kumite will improve more from a month of hard work on your kata then a month of sparring.
once you see this you will find it hard to dislike kata. some things at times are nice as a change .. to vary the training time. but Kata is where its at!!
OH HOLY WOW! Where to even begin! I've spent the later part of an hour sifting through and reading the past 14pages of this topic. MAN MY HEAD HURTS!! I've read some very fine points and some great post on this subject. However overall unless I just missed it in the middle of skimming through I didn't see this one valid point discussed. So with that being said Im going to add my OWN 2cents worth here.
Okay I started training Karate way back when around 85' and we studied the forms: Basic 1, 2, 3 I've heard many more traditional names for them but for lack of time I am not going to dig them up. And then we moved into the Chongi / Dosan forms and then the Pinan 1-5 and our advanced forms were Naihanchisho and Bassai-sho and Bassai-dai forms. OKAY now we were a typical modern midwestern karate school mostly into it for the flash and tournament reasons. We had a great base. But that was it. We never were taught the BUNKAI purposes behind the kata. We were taught them for rank requirements and for purpose of competition *point blank*
It wasn't until many years later I joined a TKD club and we studied the Palgwe Forms and I was introduced to DILLMAN (i know hold the remarks) but nonetheless he was the one who opened my eyes on KATA. Up that point I absolutly despised KATA. TO ME "what was the purpose?" Learn em for a promotion, as a structure and then to compete! I had no idea the understanding and principle that went behind them. WOW! So since that day I've had a whole new found respect for traditional KATA.
Nowadays my focus has been on FMA so we dont have perse' KATA but like ANYOS' / Djuru's or Some drilling methods they serve the same purpose as KATA. So on to what i was initially going to write about.. I think for the most part many people get overwhelemed w/ KATA. in some systems i've seen as many as 40 and MORE kata one needs to learn!
I know some masters who know and can perform "every single kata known to man" LOL Im like WHY? isn't it just as well to stick w/ a few kata the basic ones etc.. maybe a handfull meaning 10 or less kata to study a lifetime? WHO NEEDS 100's and 100's of kata in thier aresenal?
This could be partial claim to the "burnout" or STRESS of joining a new style to learn and relearn and master and remaster new forms? I know today if i were to start Karate again i'd probably be honored my rank as where I left off but I'd have to learn new kata all over again.. The ones I once was taught are no longer even taught anymore... What was wrong w/t them? Why discard them for something new? MORE FLASHY? So for my own personal opinion many change the forms for competiton purposes because the older forms no longer has that edge or cannot be reformed to catch the judges eyes anymore so they come up w/ new and improved kata always trying to get one that outdoes the next opponent.
U have Student X who enters every single tournament within a 300mile radius and does the same forms for the past 20+yrs and the judges knows him and he's a common sight. U get a new STUDENT Y who comes in w/ a flashy uniform and a new kata that has all kinds of pretty movements and just wipes your old kata clean.. THEN WHAT? does Student X say its time to give up those kata and just learn new ones for competion to stay w/ the joneses? Or does he just continue to throw away his money for competion performing outdated kata?
PLEASE for those that can answer or help me more understannd this madness please do!!
WHEW!
Coming back a few more thoughts here. One thing we also have to consider today vs. 100+years ago for what KATA was about.
We need to consider this day and age vs. the day and age when many of these great MA masters who created the kata wer in.
Some who really enjoy martial arts may not have the much of an all day to study and train KATA due to FAMILY, FULL TIME JOBS, and the hustle and bustle of everyday life. As sad as it is in American culture compared to the culture of the Asian areas our lifestyles are so much more fast paced and people want to get further quicker. If someone wants to learn to fight or defend themselves why study an ancient art who is based on studying kata and it takes 10 to 20yrs to understand it and pay $100 a month to a school for that loyalty. Then you have the opportunity for less money to get in a reality based MA (RBMA) for less the money and half ifnot less that person can learn to fight and defend themselves. This is not the fault of the System rather the fault of our NATION and sign of the times.. But we already knew that right? Im interested on hearing response on what i had to say for sure.
i am a blue belt in go-ju ryu and i always read articles that are so anti-kata.What is with you people kata have been preformed since the begining and they trained for real combat not like us who mostly do it for sport .What makes these so called reality based martial arts think they have it figured out .Kata are not preformed to teach self defense,but are used as a conditioning tool.Also to fine tune technique,teach accuracy and control.After all these methods have been used for hunderds of years and we dismiss them because we think we know it all.I think its a shame to see a black who does not teach kata ,but a guess i am a traditionalist . please fell free to give tour thoughts
Kata are a very inefficient method of training, IMO. That's why i am personally anti-kata. I never saw a point, personally speaking.
Kata are a very inefficient method of training, IMO. That's why i am personally anti-kata. I never saw a point, personally speaking.
Well, traditional martial arts ("traditional" in the sense of old pre-20th century) is about real fight and self defense. Kata was performed for self defense and was studied for self defense (not just "performed" as an aerobic routine). Nowadays, the so called "traditionalists" merely follow the sport karate founded in mid 20th, and yes, for sport karate, kata makes no sense unless you start believing the five statements listed before, and against those five statements, your criticism is valid.
I don't hate kata...just hate doing kata because it's never right. :wink:
It's always an exercise where I come away knowing how much more I need to work on.