why do beginners question there instructors

[kenpo tiger]

I don't give belts to adults.

I know you don't. In general, however, belts are awarded in MA schools.

And truthfully... its not always true. If I won a lottery that check would definately be worth having, but I didn't work for it.

True enough - but you know what I meant.

Moral lessons tend to not work as well if they are full of confilicting examples...

I agree.

No it doesn't

And it's got nothing to do with keeping pants up, it is there to hold the jacket closed.

Andrew, a TKD instructor of mine who I respect greatly used to say that. That's why I expressed it that way. His point was the same - that a black belt is just another stage in one's journey toward knowledge.

 

[kenpo tiger]

Rich,

Great explanation. It'd work with the kids also - and especially the kids. They don't question the techs so much as ask:

"When can I test for my [fill in a color] belt?"
"When is my friend [fill in the name] testing for his/her [fill in a color] belt?"

It's okay for them to ask that. They're kids. And they accept a reasonable explanation - I don't subscribe to the school of thought which says "because I'm the teacher, that's why." KT

 

[Athena]

One of the biggest reasons I like to fully comprehend my techniques is so that I can discuss them with other people. For example, occasionally I will be talking with someone who goes to a different martial arts in school in town and we'll get onto the topic of what we're doing in class. Some of the self-defense techniques we do are different because of our instrcutors' personal preferences, and I like being able to explain to him or her why we do things a certain way. I think it makes a school more credible if the students walk away with an understanding instead of just techniques, and the head instructor does a very good job explaining and leaving little room for doubt.

To be honest, I have never seen anyone question my instructors other than for clarification or application, but occasionally someone gets into the "what ifs" too much. In that case, they are firmly but politely silenced.

 

[bignick]

Rich,

Great explanation. It'd work with the kids also - and especially the kids. They don't question the techs so much as ask:

"When can I test for my [fill in a color] belt?"
"When is my friend [fill in the name] testing for his/her [fill in a color] belt?"

It's okay for them to ask that. They're kids. And they accept a reasonable explanation - I don't subscribe to the school of thought which says "because I'm the teacher, that's why." KT

I've spent time working with kids, chaperoning trips and such...

I spent 3 months helping teach a kid's taekwondo class while the assistant instructor was away...it was one of the most frustrating and rewarding experiences i've had...

The questions never stopped, but mostly it was just a kid honestly trying to understand what was going on...

The best was the day I shaved my goatee off and one kid didn't know who i was...

 

[kenpo tiger]

Ah Biggie. You really wanted to confuse them. (How many people your size do they know?)I just love the children's classes. Far as I'm concerned, there's nothing like helping one of them learn a tech. When the light bulb goes on, it's great to see their faces. It's also rewarding to have them ask questions because to me it shows that (1) they're paying attention and listening to what I'm saying (2) they really want to learn. The big payoff is my Tiny Tigers and Little Dragons giving me hugs after we bow out. Nothing like it. KT

 

[IcemanSK]

I have been reading other post topics and see where alot of beginners are questioning why the instructors won't give private to beginners and why they can't come play with the big boys. My question to you on this forum if you are a instructor or not when you was coming up through the ranks where you allow to question your instructor,second guest him or did you do what they ask you to do. I know me, I just did what they told me for they knew more than me. Please try and keep on topic, for me this is becoming a serious problem in today MA world. not at my school but at alot of school I go and visit. Last if a student talks back to you in a bad way during class how would you handle the stituation in front of the other students. GOD BLESS AMERICA :mp5: :flame: :idunno: :whip:

I saw this I thought I'd bump it.

I read a story recently that put a twist on this issue. Not from a new student, but from an instructor to a great Master. I'll leave out the instructor's name, but the great master was Ji, Han Jae. The instructor wrote a story about a humbling experience he had with GM Ji. The instructor (I'll call, Bob) had a succesful Hapkido school here in So. Cal., but wanted to sharpen his technique. So he decided to travel to San Francisco where GM Ji agreed to give him a 3 hour private lesson for $100 per hour. Bob thought it was steep, but figured for that $$ he'd get what he'd pay for.

Bob drives up to San Francisco & gets to the dojang. He prepares by stretching & throwing kicks etc., awaiting GM Ji to start his lesson. As he throws a kick, GM Ji watches & sees that Bob's foot is in the wrong position for his intended kick & points it out to Bob. Bob unthinkingly says, "Yeah, I know. It's an old habit." GM Ji responds, "Well, since you already know this, you don't need me. Lesson over." GM Ji then walks back into his office.

Bob had a lot of time to think about this on the 8+ hour drive back home. He started with "What a jerk that guy is!" And ended with, "I was the student & went to him to learn. I should have not been so quick to point out my own faults as if they were no big deal."

Bob waited a few weeks & called GM Ji & apologied. He later went back & learned from GM Ji.

I think about this story a lot since I'm far from my instructor & I've "been a few places & trained a lot of hours." I could picture myself doing the same thing that Bob did.

If this resonates with you, great.

 

[Hand Sword]

Yeah, I would 've done the same as Bob, Probably.

 

[ChrisWTK]

I didn't read the whole topic discussion so I don't know how much was said but beginners will always question more than the advanced students just because they've probably heard the questons before and had them answered already. The beginners don't know and so if they feel comfortable, will ask the instructor 'why?'. Plus I think it's good to question the instructor, or even the art itself and it's validity. If you can't feel confident in the art you're training in then you're probably not going to continue in it.

As for students who are disrespectful, I think that's wrong. Asking questions is one thing, but doing it to be annoying or disrespectful shouldn't be done. The student in that case should be told that their question will be answered after class so that it's not taking away from the other students and durring that time the instuctor can tell them about what is appropriate behavior in the dojo.

 

[Robert Lee]

While its good to question your instructor. It should be done with respect. And your instructor should give a valid anwer or demonstration of your question. Now back years ago more blind faith was given to many a instructor. But today people have seen and are less likely to follow blindly what You say. So when asked rightly the answer should be given. As far as mixing in with the advanced students training. A foundation should be built that a student has to understand. But if you are there for a defenseive type training talk to the instructor To see if he offers that type of training only as a aspect of learning. It will not be taught as a regular part of the training but as a ring or street selfdefence type.

 

[AceHBK]

I do second guess. 1 time in class and I got reprimanded for it. The technique for me was not to my advantage to perform on a attacker and I suggested a better way which would work better against an attacker bigger than me. I got reprimanded bad.

Funny thing is when I went to my Kung Fu Sifu, and told him what happened and showed him the difference between how my TKD teacher suggested and how I suggested he agreed with me and chuckled.

I now just keep quiet and when there is something I see does not benefit me in a particular way (which is rare) i just let it go in one ear and out the other try it and put it in my book of "moves that I will never perform".

Questioning is ok...second guessing........just bite your tongue and try to get thru it as best as possible.

 

[hemi]

I really hope I show enough respect when I ask my instructor a question about a technique. I tend to ask questions on the moves in the tech it self and when I ask it’s not so much why does this or that work. That part becomes obvious soon enough. I tent to ask more of a can I do this move in place of that move if I end up with the same result. Some times it’s yes and some times I am shown why the idea I was thinking would not work.

But understand I ask questions to better understand not to mock, disrespect, or take anything away from my instructor or the art. I have always been told the stupidest question is the one you don’t ask.

 

[Hand Sword]

I think they do because they're so intent on getting it right, and not feeling confident, that they question out of nervousness, caused by the feeling that everyone is watching them, or they have to match the other students. For the techniques, people just want to make sure that it will work. After all it's about their personal safety in the beginning.

 

[Ross]

Funnily enough, for me, it was due to the fact that my first instructor could answer my questions that led me to stay with my school. I was always trying to understand things better and if on any occassion he didnt know the answer he would always say so and would come back to me with the answer the following lesson.

I loved his honesty and openess to my probing questions all the time. - Thanks Mr Courtney!

It is something that I have always sought to do with my students as I have taught over the years.

On another note, I teach a lot of university students and one thing that does try my patience is a certain "I know best" attitude that sometimes comes into a class. I have had a few occassions where trying to teach people they have said "we'll i'd just knee him in the groin and leg it". And unfortunately, as much as you can go into various situations or practicalities of this they will not climb down from their stand point.

Pride comes before a fall I guess.

 

[kingkong89]

Hello I Am An Instructor And Have Been In A Beginners Position, Never Once Did I Qeustion My Instructor He Has Always Done What I Have Felt Is Right So There Was No Need, But I Understand What You Ared Saying, I Have Had Some Students Talk Back In A Harsh Way, I Just Tell Them To Stop And Be Respectfull To The Belt, And That Their Is No Need For It

 

[Rook]

Why do beginners question their instructors? The same reason everyone else does.

1. To better understand what the instructor means, it may be constructive to play devil's advocate for a moment. Of course, there is a time, a place, and a method for this and it should not be done in a disruptive manner.

2. To see if the instructor actually knows what he or she is doing. Despite all the trust that we all would like to have, there are alot of people who have no clue what they are doing who wear blackbelts and instruct classes. Its only normal that people are wary of frauds and poor teachers especially when they have not yet gotten to know you and come to respect a consistant record for telling the truth.

 

[Munkyjitsudo]

I didnt read much of this post but the first ones so I appologize if I'm subject, but staying on topic with the thread. Thats what I love my about my sensei, her favorite thing is the "what if's" and the questions, I find if your sensei knows how to apply there techniques, they'll apply them for the people who need that "reassurance". She tells me it's her favorite part of class when she gets the what if's, I used to ask what if's all the time, I kinda learned my lesson and now only ask "how to's" and never "what if's"

 

[Laurentkd]

I am the highest rank at my dojang, so I can take an instructor and student side to to this.
Like others have said, students are always encouraged to ask questions at the right time. And sometimes (most times) in the middle of class is just not the right time. I don't think "how to" questions are what Terry was asking though, I it is those "how come" questions.

My instructor and I kinda joke about a "just shut up and do it" mentality, but in reality that is EXACTLY how it works (for those students that GET IT anyway). So with he and I that is the way it goes. He says it, I do it. If after I have done something he has asked me and I don't understand it's purpose or what I was supposed to get out of it, I can then respectfully and privately talk to him. Although I play it smart and instead of just flat out asking what "I had to do that for" I tell him what I got out of it, or what I thought of it, and then he can lead me to the real reason- or tell me good job. This is the way he would like all his students to behave, but of course there is no real way to really MAKE students follow "the way" (we don't use shinais in training any more). So you just have to hope they figure it out. I have had new students ask me about this mentality, and if I think my instructor is flawless. I respond that he has more experience than me in martial arts (and in life since he is older than I) and so I just do as he says, with my faith that he is doing his job as my sahbom. I tell them that I don't think my father is perfect either, but even as an adult I sure follow his advice (and commands) and don't question why. For me a martial arts instructor should be the same way (when it comes to the martial arts at least, I guess how much an individual takes an instructor's advice for other life stuff is up to the individual, and another topic completely). This seems to make people understand. I also tell them that if you have decided to train under someone, then you have already decided to do as they say all the time. The decision has already been made. Either do it because you trust that person, or find someone you DO trust to lead you and follow them. (I really don't think I am clearly articulating this part, hopefully you get what I mean though).

As an instructor, I have found that those students who "just shut up and do it" gain way more and way faster than any student who asks "why?" all the time. So not only is it easier for the instructor, it is better for the student (which is why I continue to follow that way).

For Students who do ask "why?" all the time I encourage them to just do and see what they find out. Sometimes I tell them "you'll feel better if you figure it out yourself" or "just do it and then tell my what you discover".
That's the nice way anyway...

Really it is better for the instructor and the student if the student just does and asks questions later. Usually those original questions are solved by just doing it, and those that aren't are the ones an instructor WANTS to answer.

 

[searcher]

I don't have a problem with a student questioning with the why's and what if's. This is allowed once they have the basic self-defense techniques down without having to think about it. I figure that if they can't at the least do the ones I teach then they don't need to know what if.........yet. I encourage the mid to higher ranks to question everything. But for a beginner to do so is saying that they will not be able to make the technique work so they are preparing for failure without even having the technique down. JMHO.

 

[Andrew Green]

If a student doesn't understand the "Why"s and "How Come"s then they really don't undersand what they are doing, just mimicking. I don't want to ever train mimics.

Mimicking will also severely limit your progress, if you don't know why something is the way it is you don't understand why it is done, if you don't understand why it is done how can you be expected to do it properly to serve a purpose you don't know about?

 

[shrek]

I have been reading other post topics and see where alot of beginners are questioning why the instructors won't give private to beginners and why they can't come play with the big boys. My question to you on this forum if you are a instructor or not when you was coming up through the ranks where you allow to question your instructor,second guest him or did you do what they ask you to do. I know me, I just did what they told me for they knew more than me. Please try and keep on topic, for me this is becoming a serious problem in today MA world. not at my school but at alot of school I go and visit. Last if a student talks back to you in a bad way during class how would you handle the stituation in front of the other students. GOD BLESS AMERICA :mp5: :flame: :idunno: :whip:

1. Several reasons, but for the most part one has to have the basics figured out before advanced training can begin...on the other hand most commercial teachers don't have time for 1-1 instruction and tend to reserve that for their most promissing students.

2. Questioning the instructor comes from America being a VERY permissive society and people not knowing when to close their mouths and open their ears because their parents did not teach them politeness or obedience.

3. I have been told at the beginning of training in almost every school that questions were welcome but please save them until the appropriate time...chances are that the question would be answered by the end of the lesson. Many of my college instructors were the same

4. So far I've not had rudeness as a problem. Plenty of questions, but I can't think of any rude ones. One must lay out the guidelines CLEARLY at the beginning of a student's journey so there is no confusion.