Belt system are more for the teacher than the student.

[HighKick]

I'm not a fan of martial arts rank conferring any sort of authority over others*.

There is a limited sort of "authority" inherent in being the owner of a school or a teacher of a class. The school owner gets to decide who can attend the school. The instructor in a class gets to decide what material is being taught in class that day, how the class time is structured, and can kick out someone who is being disruptive. (Although I've never had to do that last one so far in all my years of teaching.) But that's down to the role of owner or instructor, not rank. If I (BJJ 3rd degree black belt), attend a class taught by a brown belt, then I am there as a student. I do the same drills and exercises that the teacher has everyone else do. I certainly don't try to override their authority as instructor based on my own rank.

*I'm interpreting the discussion so far regarding authority as meaning "having authority over others" rather than "being an authority (expert) in a subject."

Well said.

I started lining up at the back of the class 3-4 years ago, whether it is at our school or when I visit another school. It has been something of a 'freeing' action. I know I am not as physically capable as I once was, and by lining up in the back, it seems to 'level' the playing field and people see me as just another guy in class.
I never interject in a class unless directly asked or if something gets Very off-track. Even then, it is always done one-on-one and never in front of the class.

I think it is getting lost on some folks that there can be a sense of 'authority' even in a non-structured workout in the park since usually someone has to lead the group. But it is never a word that really comes to mind for me.
It is especially a requirement when it comes to ownership.

 

[silent killer]

Well said.

I started lining up at the back of the class 3-4 years ago, whether it is at our school or when I visit another school. It has been something of a 'freeing' action. I know I am not as physically capable as I once was, and by lining up in the back, it seems to 'level' the playing field and people see me as just another guy in class.
I never interject in a class unless directly asked or if something gets Very off-track. Even then, it is always done one-on-one and never in front of the class.

I think it is getting lost on some folks that there can be a sense of 'authority' even in a non-structured workout in the park since usually someone has to lead the group. But it is never a word that really comes to mind for me.
It is especially a requirement when it comes to ownership.

are you insecure in your job too?

 

[HighKick]

are you insecure in your job too?

Now that is a weird conclusion to draw. You see being humble and Not showing any kind of ego as insecure?
I see it as much the opposite.

 

[silent killer]

Now that is a weird conclusion to draw. You see being humble and Not showing any kind of ego as insecure?
I see it as much the opposite.

well if you stand at the back of the class as you wrote & never at the front..you must be insecure & therefor i can assume this insecurity carries over to your working life.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

well if you stand at the back of the class as you wrote & never at the front..you must be insecure & therefor i can assume this insecurity carries over to your working life.

Hmmm...interesting stance. So, someone who doesn't require recognition of rank, in your opinion, is necessarily insecure. I find quite the opposite is true - it's those not willing to be out of the dominant position who are most insecure.

 

[silent killer]

Hmmm...interesting stance. So, someone who doesn't require recognition of rank, in your opinion, is necessarily insecure. I find quite the opposite is true - it's those not willing to be out of the dominant position who are most insecure.

not what i said read it again. Nothing was mentioned about rank or domination.

 

[JowGaWolf]

I got respect because i knew my job & could look after myself.
you see in the military i served in you earned your rank.

Did you join the military to boss people around?

 

[silent killer]

Did you join the military to boss people around?

no i joined ..
(a) to get a job as my school notes were not good
(b) i always liked sports & my older brother was a soldier
(c) to see other parts of my country & other lands which i did.
(d) to educate myself which i did
(e) to enjoy good times with the boys & girls i met..which i did

 

[Gerry Seymour]

not what i said read it again. Nothing was mentioned about rank or domination.

But the post you referred to was talking about not asserting rank, and simply lining up in the back (where, in most traditional schools, the lowest-ranked students would line up). You took that immedately to implying insecurity.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Did you join the military to boss people around?

Anyone who joins the military to boss people around is going to have to put up with drill seargeants first.

 

[JowGaWolf]

no i joined ..
(a) to get a job as my school notes were not good
(b) i always liked sports & my older brother was a soldier
(c) to see other parts of my country & other lands which i did.
(d) to educate myself which i did
(e) to enjoy good times with the boys & girls i met..which i did

Which goes to my point. No one joins the military to boss people around. The reasons you joined are some of the same reasons the military markets to the civilians.

I would have to see what's being marketed today. To know what they are looking for.

To get a job - this means some one wants to work. Which is considered an honorable trait.

Like sports - sports teaches honorable things like how to lead and how to be a part of a team. Sports fans often share a bond of loyalty if they are on the same team. Most of the sports and activities .

Brother was a soldier - most people who had family members who served often thinks highly of the military.

Education is also an honorable trait people admire those who still learn after high-school. I can teach myself Korean and people will think highly of it. Admirable traits builds respect.

My questions are: Did you see yourself as an honorable person back then? Did you take pride in your service? Do you see yourself as an honorable person now or are the exception where your service made you a worse person?

 

[Hyoho]

I think I might have mentioned before. I bow into a dojo, See everyone practicing wearing armour (can't see the face) and we don't actually wear a belt although there is a ranking system. But I can more or less tell what rank people are. One can also more or less figure out high rank as they bow in by the way they dress and deport themselves.

 

[Hyoho]

A Black belt doesn´t mean that person is a really good person.
I do not think martial arts is like the Military & "Authority" has no place in a Dojo or whatever.

Very true. But for the majority of us that's why we practice. To try and make ourselves better people. Self discipline. Why would you not associate military and authority? Might I suggest you Google words like Budo,(武道) Bujutsu (武術)? You use the word Dojo as well. What do you think that might mean?

 

[Hot Lunch]

Anyone who joins the military to boss people around is going to have to put up with drill seargeants first.

And then there's the fact that the average person who signs up for four years doesn't reach the paygrade of E5 (when they actually get to start "bossing people around" [sic]) until the end of their first hitch. People with such petty goals usually don't have the sticktoitiveness to reach them.

What he's saying is reminiscent of the claim that someone who exercised authority over them in a way they didn't like must be getting revenge for "getting picked on high school" and so forth. Usually, when people say that, they're projecting.

 

[Taiji Rebel]

The traditional martial arts seems to appeal to ex-military folk and those still serving. It may because they have a similar and familiar style with uniforms, ranks, drills and order. Plus the martial arts are another way to continue training your fitness and mental toughness. Belts usually appeal to beginners in martial arts. Once you get stuck into training it becomes clear the belt is pretty much irrelevant. It's the same with trophies, medals and certificates at the end of the day.

 

[silent killer]

The traditional martial arts seems to appeal to ex-military folk and those still serving. It may because they have a similar and familiar style with uniforms, ranks, drills and order. Plus the martial arts are another way to continue training your fitness and mental toughness. Belts usually appeal to beginners in martial arts. Once you get stuck into training it becomes clear the belt is pretty much irrelevant. It's the same with trophies, medals and certificates at the end of the day.

i personally don´t care about belts or awards

 

[Hot Lunch]

i personally don´t care about belts or awards

Lies. Your art doesn't have belts. Cool. But I'm getting the impression that's one of the main reasons you chose it.

Someone in the same room wearing something indicating that they've progressed farther than you seems to trigger feelings of inferiority. So you chose an art where you don't have to worry about that.

In other words, you do care.

 

[silent killer]

Lies. Your art doesn't have belts. Cool. But I'm getting the impression that's one of the main reasons you chose it.

Someone in the same room wearing something indicating that they've progressed farther than you seems to trigger feelings of inferiority. So you chose an art where you don't have to worry about that.

In other words, you do care.

 

[silent killer]

And then there's the fact that the average person who signs up for four years doesn't reach the paygrade of E5 (when they actually get to start "bossing people around" [sic]) until the end of their first hitch. People with such petty goals usually don't have the sticktoitiveness to reach them.

What he's saying is reminiscent of the claim that someone who exercised authority over them in a way they didn't like must be getting revenge for "getting picked on high school" and so forth. Usually, when people say that, they're projecting.

The Military has good & bad people & when i joined in the 80s people did get a hard time as a new guy. In the military in these days you had to shut your mouth & take the crap.. if not you got a hard time which could be a kicking.
just how it was but nowadays i think it´s changed as people are more in contact with the internet & such so not so "isolated" in some camp.
I also saw one guy who as we called it, "refused to soldier" he was stripped naked & given a blanket put in a cell.
I saw a few beatings too such as one guy who was in the Regimental jail & thought he was a kickboxer. He got a good beating from the Provo Sgt & one of his staff.
after that he soon did as he was told, this is how it was.

 

[silent killer]

obviously i do not know how the US Military handles these things but the British Army has it´s "methods"
Play by big boys rules...it ain´t the boy scouts