why do beginners question there instructors

[Corporal Hicks]

Ok, sorry If I get the thread wrong here, but whats second guessing? Also, you mention about students talking back, well what if the Student is openly crictising a technique? How would you deal with that? My instructor has had a situation with a student constantly nick-picking at techniques, even the style of fighting itself (Tae Kwon Do) and not to mention when it came to patterns lol (worse than me)! Would continuely cricitising the art get you kicked out?

 

[Aaron Little]

If students are not allowed to question or "second guess" what is taught then how can an art evolve? It is my belief that it is through challenging questions that growth occurs. Growth both for the individual and for the art as a whole should be our ultimate goal as teachers/coaches.

Sometimes there is a better way to do something. Many times that way is discovered due to a "what if" question in class.

I expect those who choose to train with me to question everything that we do. It is through this questioning that students learn to trust their own skills. I never want a student to just take my word for something. If, heaven forbid, they are ever in a situation where their life depends on their skills, it is my hope that they have questioned and tested those skills for themselves. Not just taken my word that things work.

The goals of my students nor myself are not served by the preservation of any specific tradition. It is the never ending quest for the improvement of skill that drives us. Not skill in a specific move or technique but the skill that allows one to physically impose his will on another. Whether that be in a self-defense situation or competition.

 

[bignick]

one of my instructors has a great way of dealing with "what if" questions...he'll demonstrate what happens...with the person who asked the question being uke...

my favorite story is the first time he started teaching the self-defense class at the college i go to...there were 3 big football players that took the class(i'm assuming they needed a credit to stay eligible..)...

so he's going through some techniques and different situations and the football players are practicing anything...he goes over and encourages them to participate...one of the guys is like, "Honestly, with athletes like us...what could a little old guy like you do..."

so he says..."ok, ok...well just go for a grab or something and we'll see..." so one guy grabs his wrist and he nails him with a kote gaeshi (type of wristlock for the non judo/jujitsu people) that he described as "out of this world"....the football player hits the ground and as he turns around he sees the other two guys nicely going through the excersizes...and that settled that...

this is a bit more extreme than most cases...mainly it discourages only dumb, "what if" questions...contrary to popular belief...there are dumb questions...

 

[MichiganTKD]

And this is what separates a western approach from a traditional approach. There is nothing wrong with having a Q&A session once in a while, or the Instructor asking "are there any questions?" That doesn't mean every technique needs to be nitpicked or the Instructor's every move questioned. Much like parents, the Instructor's job is to teach students the best way he knows how. It is not the students' position to critique every action or utterance of the teacher. Their job is to shut up and practice.
That doesn't mean that as students advance in rank and mature, they cannot quiz their Instructor about various details, because now they are beginning to understand how things work. As gup students, they simply are not in a position to question like that. A first grade student is not in a position to constantly question the teacher. They need to simply practice, do what they are told, and improve their basic skills. A college student, with much greater levels of understanding and maturity, is in a position to ask respectful questions. Whether or not the teacher feels obliged to answer is a different story.
I would say that students should not begin to ask questions of the Instructor beyond technical details until after Dan level.

 

[AnimEdge]

I think questioning the instructor is great if its a good question, depending apon the question ya know? In mine there well open for questions and tips, if you think your doing the tech wrong or even if you dont think you can do the tech asking them if theres a alternite version(like theres ithis one leg lock to where you sit on there legs in some like pretzel way, me and some of the tall ones couldnt get are selfs to bend that far to get it effectivly weirth we are to tall or not as felxable and so we asked him so he showed us a altneritive lock that isnt as effective but gets the job done as well) but generaly even if we think the technique is useless in real life and no one in there right mind would try to pull it off we usally keep it to ourselfs and if we do say anything about it its along the lines of, how would this tech be done in a real life situation? its good to question your instructor and have a instructor taht answers those questions but secound guessing them is something diffrent

 

[Rob Broad]

There is a big difference between questions and second guessing. Questions can help you understand the motion, or concpets of that particular part of the training. Questioning what is being taught is a little different, some people just can't get it in their head that the instructor knows more than them, and have to question everythig that is said to them. These Nit Pickers can often break up the flow of a class, and be a problem for the rest of the class. In the past I have taken that student aside and explain to them that if they would wait until the lesson is complete they might learn something, and that they are also slowing down the others students progression. Some take it the comments I make and use them to help themselves others have tried to lash out. If they have a problem with the material being taught I refer them to a competitors school, let them have the head ache. If the have a problem with my teaching style I ask what the problem is, if it just something along the lies that they want everything handed to them with out having to work to learn, I challenge them to try it my way for a month, if they won't try it, I refer them to a competitor.

If a student challenges my authority in class, I remove them from that class. If they do it a second time, I show them the door, and send them off to a competitor.

If oyu are running a school you have to think about every person in the class, not just one troublesome student. You have to look at whether this one person's constant questions and out bursts are driving people away, I would rather my competitor have that headache so I can concentrate on the students that wants to learn.

 

[OC Kid]

I tell my students that It'll take approx 3 months of classs 2 X's week and not missing any classes before I can begin to really start teaching them anything. They cant play with the "big boys" until they learn how to play the game.

I dont mind being asked questions or students changing the techniques I teach them to adapt to their own style.
I'll keep harping on major things like closing the gate and keeping their hands up.

If they dont I just tell them they're gonna find out in sparring and when/if they really need to defend themselves. During sparring if they get blasted in their grill with a back fist . Ill just tell them I told ya to keep your hands up now you know why.

I also ask them questions during class to remind them of why we do certain things such as why do we use a fwd stance, why do we kiai ect.

 

[AnimEdge]

Good good, seams a very open and controled class

 

[Feisty Mouse]

1. Because Americans often confuse having an opinion with having something to say.

lol!

I think I'm in a different environment - my classes tend to be smaller and there isn't a lot of second-guessing or trying to "push" the instructors. (If there is, it's dealt with and I don't see it!) So my answer is, I'm glad I feel free to ask questions. Sometimes they are answered, sometimes they are not, but I'm glad there is that option.

 

[Andrew Green]

If no one asks questions, then no one is thinking about what they are doing.

If no one is thinking about what they are doing, they'd best be doing something else.

Another question would be why don't some instructors like students that have enough brain power to question what they are doing?

If the instructor fully understands what he/she is doing and why, questions should not be a problem.

 

[bignick]

intelligent questions aren't the problem...it's people that spout off without knowing fully what they're talking about..

if i'm not getting something...you better believe i'm gonna ask what i'm doing wrong....

it's people that stand around and say things like, "well, this won't work" or "how realistic is this" when they're just learning the most fundamental version of something...obviously, not everything is gonna be applicable to the real world...but you need to statically train to learn the basics before you move onto more dynamic training....

it's the people that assume the static training is the end all and it never goes anywhere that are the problem

 

[Paul B]

I think the biggest difference is in actual technical questions and "theoretical" questions.

I strongly encourage technical questions about actual technique,if a student wants to move into theory right away without digesting the technique,that moves into the "second guessing" area,which drives me up a wall.

I put it simply like this,techniques are different points on a map,you use these different roadstops to "drive" from place to place. What good is it to get into discussion(theory),when you don't even know how to "drive" yet? Work on learning how to drive,and then you can go wherever you want! But until then,keep training!

 

[Rob Broad]

I have been reading other post topics and see where alot of beginners are questioning why the instructors won't give private to beginners and why they can't come play with the big boys. My question to you on this forum if you are a instructor or not when you was coming up through the ranks where you allow to question your instructor,second guest him or did you do what they ask you to do. I know me, I just did what they told me for they knew more than me. Please try and keep on topic, for me this is becoming a serious problem in today MA world. not at my school but at alot of school I go and visit. Last if a student talks back to you in a bad way during class how would you handle the stituation in front of the other students. GOD BLESS AMERICA :mp5: :flame: :idunno: :whip:

after reading the original post again, I still see it as more of the questioning of teh instructor not questions to the instructor. Questions to the instructor are good they show the student is trying to comprehend and learn. It is good to ask questions to help you learn, it is not so good to question the validity of a tchnique until you have spent enought time on it to know what to ask. Questioning the instructor incessantly just wastes other students time and money. If a student openly questions an instructors authority and it is not dealt with immediately it will escalate and destroy the class structure.

 

[Paul B]

Validity is a variable depending on what your "perception" level is. What may be a "valid" technique to me,may not be to some who have not acquired my level of perception,and vica versa.

The point is...do you know what your looking at and feeling from the attacker. If you are just learning a technique,how valid is your perception of said technique?

 

[SMP]

I believe studenst should be encouraged to ask questions. That being said they should be taught by instructors and higher students in appropriate timing. Often people have not been taught proper etiqite but still want to learn.

As for a student being disrespectful we have a list of rules as well as very basic consequences for violations either Major or Minor. Further if a student has a disagreement with a instructor they are to always follow the instructors instructions including following through with any repremands given ie.. push ups or other exercises after class they may speak with our head instructor (sifu) who settles any disputes or disagreements.

This system is explained to students and re-explained if necesarry.

 

[terryl965]

after reading the original post again, I still see it as more of the questioning of teh instructor not questions to the instructor. Questions to the instructor are good they show the student is trying to comprehend and learn. It is good to ask questions to help you learn, it is not so good to question the validity of a tchnique until you have spent enought time on it to know what to ask. Questioning the instructor incessantly just wastes other students time and money. If a student openly questions an instructors authority and it is not dealt with immediately it will escalate and destroy the class structure.

Rob you are exactly right it not questions but questioning the instructor, on another post someone question why his instructor would not give him private since he was a lower belt and thats the point I.m trying to make if they come to us for instruction why question the way we instruct, question about technique and the way we do Poomsee is different than why can't we play or how come no private yet.

 

[Rob Broad]

As an instructor, and someone who loves to teach private lessons, I tell the student it is a waste of time until they are at a rank where they will get their money's worth. A white belt or a yellow belt does not know enough about their art to articulate what exactly they are looking for in a private lesson. A lot of times a beginner will want to work on one thing in a private lesson but can not see they have to get down something else to make what they want to do work for them.

Several times a student doing private lessons say they want to learn something they are no where near ready enough to learn and they get upset. We live in a fast food, micro-wave dinner, high speed world of instant gratification, and private lessons may help a person learn somethings they do not help with seasoning a student.

Many beginners come into class with unrealistic goals, or attainable goals but in an unrealistic time frame, and that causes problems. I always tell my students that training is not a race, and they will get good when they get good.

 

[Pale Rider]

I agree with the majority of the reponses. I believe that beginners don't know enough material to have a "private lesson". Now granted I wouldn't turn a student down if they wanted to take private lessons as they run usually more in monthly fees. I think that the beginners need to watch others their own rank perform the same technique in order to realize how they are performing. By seeing the mistakes of others it is a necessary step in order to advance.

Alot of times I have had students ask me questions and question my technique(s) - I tell them that martial arts is exactly that and not martial science. What may work for one, may not work for someone else. If an instructor is not knowledgable in the field he/she may simply say "Do what I say.." I find that type of instructor lacking in information and myself will seek information elsewhere. If a student asks me something that I don't know the answers to - I will try my best to find the answer and relay that to the student.

If a student questions my technique then I have a solution for that (as was taught to me early in my training) - SHOW THEM! Usually just one time will convince the student not to question the technique again. (May cause the student to leave the class, but it is better to lose one then many over not demonstrating the effective use of the technique in question.)

In the "old days" - information was not so readily available where as someone could learn so easily. Those days it was a custom NOT to question the instructor based on the fact that the next instructor may live alot further and it was best to learn without question. The only disadvantage there that I see is can you rely on techniques that you don't fully understand based on the instructor's (do as I say) attitude? Or would you (as a student) want to fully comprehend the technique and practice knowing how it works in various/all aspects? We could use the explanation of something simple like a "high block". That is something that all white/yellow belts learn and of course it differs from one style/organization to the next, but the fundamentals are there. One style will say that you are doing "this", while another will say that you are doing "that"... but how effective are they teaching the technique? How many applications do they cover even over something as simple as a "Han Dahn Mahki"? Do they cover over other applications such as joint-locks, nerve strikes, throws? I believe that as instructors we have an obligation to instruct as much as possible to the students for one day they will be the instructors and if we don't teach them what we know - the training will be "watered down" over the generations.

So in essence and in conclusion I will merely state that the students if they ask questions (or question their instructor) - do so only in an honorable method - inquisitive yes, but not in any manner that could be taken as dishonorable. Learn! Practice! and realize that no one will hold all the answers. It is up to us as continual students to seek out our own answers and see if they hold any validity.

 

[OC Kid]

Well I tell ya I didnt think about it in the negative sense. But if a student gives me attitude or the that wont work type of mess, I do what a friend of mines Chinese instructor does. I tell them that "There is nothing more I can teach you you have to much knowledge." Then send them to another school ( I know of a very expensive McDojo nearby, thats where I tell them to go aient I a stinker).
I dont have the time or inclination to spend on someone who just comes and critisizes in a negative attacking way. Its bad for the schools rep student morale and a waste of class time.

But if a student is sincere about his questions then that is a different story and I will give him all the time he needs.

 

[ppko]

Validity is a variable depending on what your "perception" level is. What may be a "valid" technique to me,may not be to some who have not acquired my level of perception,and vica versa.

The point is...do you know what your looking at and feeling from the attacker. If you are just learning a technique,how valid is your perception of said technique?

I run across this some times in order to get to the shorter versions of doing certain techniques you have to show the longer versions which are not always applicable to the streets but with time and commitment you can shorten them and make them applicable