Why being able to dodge one fast strike like jab don't mean you can dodge others like beer bottle?

[BeeBrian]

I am wondering about one thing.

During one incident a professional boxer was murdered during a fight that ensued with a friend of his during an argument while they were drinking. Now granted this friend was revealed to be a member of a gang group I think it was MS-13, both guys were drunk, and the boxer was able to bruise the MS13 friend a bit before he died of bleeding from the stabs. However the MS13 guy had nor formal training. The documentary does not reveal how physically conditioned the MS13 guy was. In addition since the boxer was able to bruise the MS13 guy that proves he was no more faster than the boxer, if not was slower according to eye witness accounts. The boxer was a local hero and was ranked high for his speed for a low level contender according to his career records. So shouldn't he have been able to at least dodge some of the MS13 guy's stabs or at least block them with his arms? The photos in the docs showed wounds in his stomach. Moreso considering he was able to hit the guy back!

In a amateur MMA fight I witnessed, a guy was able to dodge an opponents kicks very easily and even hooks. But he had a hard time trying to dodge jabs and he fell than after a few traditional boxing blows and was submitted.

To use an anecdote I have a friend at my uni who was VERY FAST in bobbing and weaving. I could not land a single blow when we spared. But one day after an idiotic argument a fight broke out between him and some drunk mumbo in a bar. The drunk swung his beer bottle at a much slower speed that I can easily see and dodge it myself. Yet my friend who I could not land a blow was hit by it very EASILY to my shock. The bar keeper stopped the brawl but my friend himself was humiliated that some random guy who doesn't evne look physically fit was able to land a blow on him. That his reflexes was unable to spot the bottle in time before he could react.

I am curious. As you can see in the incidents I posted, some oft he people have HIGH REFLEXES compared to the average Joe and could dodge quick attacks that they seen daily in their professions or lifestyles. Yet when MUCH MUCH SLOWER BLOWS that they hadn't had much experience fighting came, they were HIT despite their reflexes and in one case the boxer guy died.

Why is this? Does having the reflexes to say bob and weave punches at professional level does not mean you can dodge baseball swings from an angry psychopath who doesn't even know how to swing a baseball bat properly let alone last a 20 seconds in a spar with amateur boxers? I mean I know tales about hardened street fighters who can literally stab multiple targets and at vital points within seconds and than run away in an instant but lack the reflexes to dodge a basic hook from a 15 year old boxing fan in a boxing gym and of special forces who are so quick in reflexes they can disarm a guy just before he presses the trigger but cannot catch a leg in time from a slow kickboxer's roundhouse (yes slow even in amatuer standards) despite having the reflexes to disarmed a bloodthirsty terrorist!

Is there a difference in skill from dodging kicks to dodging plumbing pipes and so on?

I ask this because boxers are often praised for their punching speed and punches always receive universally as being far faster than most kicks from martial artists. SInce boxers have the reflexes to dodge punches like second nature, shouldn't kicks which tend to be much slower be easy to dodge (especially those that ltakea bit to execute like roundhouse)?

I seen more than enough cases of former military personel (a couple who are combatives instructor and even a few who fought in Iraq and Afghanistan) getting pawned rather quickly when they start fight careers because they were too slow in evading basic punches or kicks or to react to basic BJJ. Some of these guys who according to scientific testing have superhuman reflexes and perception such as spotting things in pitch black or being able to reach to surprise ambushes in time.

Sports may be a different dog from military H2H but with such peak human reflexes and perception shouldn't they have at least lasted several rounds? The ex-military I saw were pawned within seconds of entering the ring! They should have been able to judging by how their reflexes were ranked in military testing, been able to at least dodge or block against the punches, kicks, and takedowns by the other MMA fighters for a round or two.

I only read about one-fourth of the way. I'll read further sometime as I'm in a hurry right now.

I guess it's because the boxer was not expecting lethal strikes. Tyson-style boxing requires you to not be afraid of incoming punches. The boxer in your story may have had this mentality and went full-force thinking his blows would be enough to stop the stabber.

I don't think it has to do with boxing though, moreso than the boxer's arrogance. Knife strikes don't require too much force to make you bleed like a butchered goat. Adrenaline will make it worse too, as you'll bleed even faster.

 

[Mephisto]

I only read about one-fourth of the way. I'll read further sometime as I'm in a hurry right now.

I guess it's because the boxer was not expecting lethal strikes. Tyson-style boxing requires you to not be afraid of incoming punches. The boxer in your story may have had this mentality and went full-force thinking his blows would be enough to stop the stabber.

I don't think it has to do with boxing though, moreso than the boxer's arrogance. Knife strikes don't require too much force to make you bleed like a butchered goat. Adrenaline will make it worse too, as you'll bleed even faster.

Can you link where it says adrenaline will make you bleed out faster? I've spoken to EMTs who describe a number of physiological reactions that the body had as a reaction to trauma. One such reaction vasoconstriction causes veins to constrict and bleeding to slow.

 

[Dirty Dog]

Can you link where it says adrenaline will make you bleed out faster? I've spoken to EMTs who describe a number of physiological reactions that the body had as a reaction to trauma. One such reaction vasoconstriction causes veins to constrict and bleeding to slow.

Adrenalin makes the heart beat faster. It also causes vasoconstriction. Which one will have the larger affect on rate of blood loss will depend on too many variables to list.

 

[BeeBrian]

Can you link where it says adrenaline will make you bleed out faster? I've spoken to EMTs who describe a number of physiological reactions that the body had as a reaction to trauma. One such reaction vasoconstriction causes veins to constrict and bleeding to slow.

My source would be a self defense website. Since you've spoken to medical pros, they're probably right.

lol. Still want the source? I don't think the author was a PhD or anything, but he seemed like he knew what he was talking about.

http://www.nononsenseselfdefense.com/

I just did a quick search and the website is down. It redirects you in this weird place with a picture of a hot telemarketer. Website seems gone forever.

It was an article about knife fighting about how adrenaline makes things worse because it'll make you bleed faster because heart pumps more blood faster to the muscles. It makes logical sense.

 

[Buka]

You guys might want to listen to Dirty Dog. The man knows.

 

[Dirty Dog]

My source would be a self defense website. Since you've spoken to medical pros, they're probably right.

lol. Still want the source? I don't think the author was a PhD or anything, but he seemed like he knew what he was talking about.

http://www.nononsenseselfdefense.com/

I just did a quick search and the website is down. It redirects you in this weird place with a picture of a hot telemarketer. Website seems gone forever.

It was an article about knife fighting about how adrenaline makes things worse because it'll make you bleed faster because heart pumps more blood faster to the muscles. It makes logical sense.

If heart rate were the only thing to influence bleeding, this might make sense. But...
Vasospasm
Size of the vessel
Arterial or venous
Location of the cut
Body position
Lacerated or severed
etc etc etc.

The author may well have "seemed like he knew what he was talking about", but he did not.
I could very convincingly describe physiologic events that would cause the human brain to spontaneously combust.
It would be utter rubbish, but there are plenty of people who could be convinced.

Story time...
A nurse on one of the medical floors annoyed the crap out of me because she would constantly call asking for someone to come start an IV that was just impossible for her to get. A lot of these calls were for patients who were incredibly easy to stick, and it was obvious she wasn't even trying.

So when I found out she was pregnant, we had a conversation...
"So, how far along are you?"
"16 weeks!"
"Congrats! Who is hanging your IV's for you?"
"Huh?"
"From 16 to 20 weeks, you shouldn't be raising your arms above your head. It causes the fetus to dangle from the umbilical cord, and since it's growing so fast at this stage, it can get stuck and you'll have a breech birth..."

Other staff on that floor couldn't decide if this was hysterical or not, because she did spend the next 4 weeks asking people to hang her IVs for her.

At 20 weeks, I did my best to convince her that from 20-24 weeks, she couldn't have sex except doggie style. I do not have any idea if that worked or not.