who is the 22 grand master?

[John Bishop]

Yes, the words "ruff and undisiplined" were Thomas Young's exact words to me. During the period of time I interviewed Thomas Young there were people putting forth the theory that Prof. Chow and Mitose were actually equals in the "Official Self Defense Club", and that the members had elected Mitose to be the head of the club.
Prof. Young wanted to put that rumor to rest, and made it clear that Mitose was his and Prof. Chow's teacher. And that his (Young) signing of Prof. Chow's certificate was not because he had been Chow's instructor.

 

[Matt]

Today, you see a few individuals who trained with Mitose for a very short period of time before or after his incarceration claiming to know all the "hidden secrets" of the "true Kosho Ryu Kenpo". They have jumped a few kenpo generations to become so called "Kosho Masters". One individual in the east claims to have been Mitose's last student. In truth he trained with Mitose privetely for less than 12 weeks. His only claim to fame is the fact that he actually beat a 70 year old man to death to please Mitose.
If anyone ever proves that there was a event in Mitose's life where he was a truthful and honorable man, then we might be able to believe some of his other claims.

I only quoted part of it, but the whole post was remarkable. I couldn't have said it better myself. Can I repost it? It should be required reading for everyone from this lineage.

Matt

 

[John Bishop]

Matt; feel free.

 

[Karazenpo]

Nope. I read someplace (the infamous someplace) that while Chow studied with Mitose, Thomas Young promoted Chow to Shodan. Since you have direct information, I'm obviously mistaken. Please expand on this topic, for the benefit of myself and other interested parties. Thanks in advance.

Randy, I also heard from the 'infamous someplace', lol, that Young signed Chow's certificate because it was an ethnic thing at the time, Mitose being Japanese and Chow not. However, Sigung Bishop has it right from the source so that would have to stand undisputed. As far as Mitose's criminal past I don't see how anyone can read the court transcripts and probation records and not believe this man had a very dark side to him. Despite his criminal background some, as in the O.J. case, debunk it, say he was framed, set up, whatever........ As far as my research goes the jury is in on that one. However, I still am curious to see the records of Shihan Brown. Again, it makes no difference to me whether Mitose learned a wristlock and arm bar in Japan or not, lol, I would just like truth so this matter can finally be put to rest.

 

[John Bishop]

Randy, I also heard from the 'infamous someplace', lol, that Young signed Chow's certificate because it was an ethnic thing at the time, Mitose being Japanese and Chow not.

I don't know who started that rumor, but the only black belts of Mitose's who had Japanese blood were Jiro Nakamura and Paul Yamaguichi. William Chow, Thomas Young, and Bobby Lowe, were of Chinese heritage. Arthur Keave was Hawaiian.

 

[guito]

chow's clip its great thats a collectors item , again thanks bishop .kenpo its great , mitose where a very controversial guy and theres still people who believe and keep preaching he was a saint , he's abilite and his moves ,for a has read ,he uses the wrong way thats why he end in jail .the people who practice with him and he influence like chow ,endup doing great things and teaching people like parker,emperado, tracy and others that their teaching has croos all over the world .right know i am in a little island call puerto rico 100 of miles from where all begins asking about mitose ,and find out that kosho people over here in the island need to study kenpo history more and stop talking things they don't know.john bishop and karazenpo keep the good work .:asian:

 

[John Bishop]

Guito:
We've got a lot of good Kajukenbo people in Puerto Rico. If you get the chance, check out one of their schools.

http://www.kajukenbo.org/schools/index.asp#PR

 

[Karazenpo]

Yeah, John, that's why I dismissed it right away. I had checked into Young and Lowe and found out their ethnic origin. Another thing about the Mitose enigma were those infamous prison visits of Bruce Juchnik. Now, I too, had said to myself how can you receive any type of training or anything else for that matter that would put you as head of a system? About three years ago I started corresponding via e-mail and telephone with Professor Eugene Sedeno whom I know you also think a lot of. One time we must have talked a couple of hours on these prison visits, Juchnik and Mitose. Reason being Professor Sedeno had made those visits also and before someone else says it, yes, Professor Sedeno received a 'Master's Certificate' from Mitose. Some of our conversation was confidential but some was open. First let me state I have the highest respect for the Professor. He is the real thing, his character, his training and credentials are immpecable. That being said, Professor Sedeno did not 'need' a master's certificate from Mitose for any legitimacy! The Professor told me the visits were basically 'unrestricted'. They would go outside to a grassy area if I recall with picnic tables and talk about Kosho ryu. The guards went about their business and did not supervise these visits. Mitose would explain things sometimes using hand gestures and telling them where to look and what to research in regards to his Kosho ryu. Now please, before anyone reading this feels they want to throw a shot a me for this post, bear in mind-'don't shoot the messenger'. We are here on this forum to learn and exchange information. All I'm doing is giving you insight as John Bishop did with his interview with Thomas Young. These visits are very controversial. If I were to ask Bruce Juchnik the consensus would be he would be biased for he is profiting from his position on the Mitose issue. I agree. So, what's the best way to get information on this matter then talking to someone who was there! Secondly someone of immpecable character and someone not profiting from the situation. Professor Sedeno has his own lineage and credentials. Now, I have my own personal feelings as to who is the true successor to this art and it would start with Thomas Young and his successor. I have looked into some of the curriculum of Bruce Juchnik and found the katas to be traditional Okinawan karate forms. Now, did Mitose confide in him of his Okinawan training in Hawaii and suggest he goes back to this system to advance his understanding of this art or did Juchnik take it upon himself? I have no idea. Again, my personal beliefs are not the issue here, I am just attempting to report as much fact as possible. I was a history major in college and found that the history of the martial arts are no different than the history of our nation and the world. It can be very subjective and opinionated in respect to each individual reporting it. I am trying be best to keep my own biases out of it and maintain an open mind. As in my training in investigation procedures in law enforcemnet taught me it's very important to keep an open mind. If I may quote from "Cold Case Review"-'Ideas and comments from the Arnold Market Symposium and Workshop 2004-Prepared by Trooper Daniel G. Richard of the Massachusetts State Police Crime Prevention and Control Unit-C-P.A.C.:

5. 'Don't fall in love with one theory'. Ruling out any and all possible subjects is as important as proving the case against one suspect. Do not make the facts fit your idea of what happened.


Again, that's all I'm trying to do and it ain't easy, lol. Professor Joe Shuras

 

[Karazenpo]

You're welcome, guito. Let me throw this one around. A few posts ago I stated I had asked Professor Gerry Scott if he would respectfully propose a few questions to Sijo Emperado for me. One of Sijo's replies were that Mitose had the abilities of a master instructor. This has been long posted on the Kajukenbo Cafe for anyone's verification. Now, go to John Bishop's Kajukenbo page (outstanding web site with a wealth of information and history) and check out the interview with Sijo. He stated he trained under both Chow and Mitose but considered Chow his instructor. He also stated he received a master's certificate but, to paraphrase, didn't put much stock into it because at that time Mitose was selling high ranks for big bucks. My question would be, Sjio is being very candid and forthcoming when questioned about Mitose. He appears to be unbiased and gives 'the devil his due' when deserved. If he had any doubts about Mitose as a master instructor it would have been out of character for him to b.s. anyone. Know what I mean? He wasn't shy on him selling rank ceritificates!

 

[Gentle Fist]

This has turned out to be a great post, I could read what you guys post for hours.

The only story I ever heard of Mitose and Juchnik was...Keep in mind it came from a pro-Juchnik guy so who knows if it is even true.

Juchnik,then an EPAK guy, came to meet Mitose for the first time and to get advice. Mitose at first said no, and posed the question, "Why should I show you anything". Mitose then asked Juchnik to try to punch him. So, the then cocky Juchnik came after Mitose with a punch, Mitose did something called a Phantom Punch and leveled Juchnik. From what I was told, a Phantom Punch is when you evade an incoming punch and quickly strike the back of the head of the passing opponent. If done correctly the tori seems to vanish from the attacker's eye sight. From then on Juchnik was all ears to what Mitose would say and ask of him.

 

[Randy Strausbaugh]

Yes, the words "ruff and undisiplined" were Thomas Young's exact words to me. During the period of time I interviewed Thomas Young there were people putting forth the theory that Prof. Chow and Mitose were actually equals in the "Official Self Defense Club", and that the members had elected Mitose to be the head of the club.
Prof. Young wanted to put that rumor to rest, and made it clear that Mitose was his and Prof. Chow's teacher. And that his (Young) signing of Prof. Chow's certificate was not because he had been Chow's instructor.

Thank you for the clarification. Yet another piece of the ever-expanding Kenpo history puzzle fits into place. :asian:

 

[Mekugi]

Quick question:

Where exactly is the proof of an alleged 500 year old martial art, without any densho, makimono or anything else to back it up inside Japan, ever existed in Japan at all? (btw...that's not exactly 100% true, Bugeiryuha Daijiten does have an entry for Kosho ryu...listed as "Karate").

Better yet, since none of these documents seem to exist, does it really matter? Past James Mitose, unless one can come up with some solid documentation, it doesn't seem worth the effort either.

 

[Karazenpo]

Quick question:

Where exactly is the proof of an alleged 500 year old martial art, without any densho, makimono or anything else to back it up inside Japan, ever existed in Japan at all? (btw...that's not exactly 100% true, Bugeiryuha Daijiten does have an entry for Kosho ryu...listed as "Karate").

Better yet, since none of these documents seem to exist, does it really matter? Past James Mitose, unless one can come up with some solid documentation, it doesn't seem worth the effort either.

Hello Russ, good questions. Shihan Mike Brown, historian of the Sei Kosho Shorei Kai told me he has made several trips to Japan and has this documentation in his possession. He has released some information which I have posted on this forum. However, he is in the process of publishing a book in which he told me, to paraphrase, this enigma of James Mitose would be revealed with verifiable documentation. Shihan Brown lives near me and I can attest first hand that he has an excellent reputation in the arts, in both character and ability. Hopefully, his book will be out soon. Respectfully, Professor Joe Shuras

 

[Mekugi]

Hi! Thanks for the info.
I am sure the book will be interesting.
I think I have met Mike Brown in Oregon some many years ago (if this was the same gentleman).

Past possibly Koseki Tohon, public records and local history, does he have densho, makimono or meibo??
-R

Hello Russ, good questions. Shihan Mike Brown, historian of the Sei Kosho Shorei Kai told me he has made several trips to Japan and has this documentation in his possession. He has released some information which I have posted on this forum. However, he is in the process of publishing a book in which he told me, to paraphrase, this enigma of James Mitose would be revealed with verifiable documentation. Shihan Brown lives near me and I can attest first hand that he has an excellent reputation in the arts, in both character and ability. Hopefully, his book will be out soon. Respectfully, Professor Joe Shuras

 

[Karazenpo]

Past possibly Koseki Tohon and public records and local history, does he have densho, makimono or meibo??
-R

Don't know Russ but I'll give you his e-mail address and you can write him. Joe

[email protected]

 

[Mekugi]

Thanks Joe!!

I am going to write him in about 3 minutes, actually I am going to invite him to come to the forum and speak a litte bit about his book (the best blurbs IMHO).

Don't know Russ but I'll give you his e-mail address and you can write him. Joe

[email protected]

Always,

 

[punisher73]

I know this may be slightly off topic but I just thought I would throw it in the pile.

When talking about Mitose's lineage and where he actually learned it, it was rumored that he was the nephew of Choki Motobu and it was his system that he really learned (thus why he only taught Nihanchi). I watched an interview with Choki's son and he stated that Mitose was not any relation to his father.

 

[Karazenpo]

I know this may be slightly off topic but I just thought I would throw it in the pile.

When talking about Mitose's lineage and where he actually learned it, it was rumored that he was the nephew of Choki Motobu and it was his system that he really learned (thus why he only taught Nihanchi). I watched an interview with Choki's son and he stated that Mitose was not any relation to his father.

No Punisher, not off topic at all. Yes, you are correct as from what I heard also. There is no relation. However, there seems to be documentation coming out that Mitose studied under Naburu Tanamaha in Hawaii. Tanamaha was either a first or second generation Motobu, hense, the similiarites between what Mitose taught and Motobu's Okinawan Shorei ryu Kempo. Mitose was also friendly with Gm. Robert Trias also of the Motobu lineage. I have corresponded with Dr. Roberta Trias-Kelley who has confirmed this. There may have also been an exchange of knowledge from this source also. Like I stated in an early post, it's still up un the air but we're getting closer to the truth as time goes on. I, myself, find it very interesting.

 

[TIGER DRAGON FIGHT]

i no idea (;