When the kata is applied to self defense

[Kung Fu Wang]

doing stances and techniques that you would never use in fight.

Agree! Lifetime is too valuable to be wasted.

There are 3 different kind of techniques in the form. Those that you

1. have used in sparring successfully.
2. like to use in sparring but not very successful.
3. have never used in sparring.

You should keep 1, 2 and discard 3.

The following is a modern created form for American Combat Shuai Chiao Association. If I say it's an ancient form, nobody will be able to notice any difference.

Please notice that this form is created from application and not the other way around.

 

[Hanzou]

When I studied TKD we usually (almost always) did kata in steps. In the Hapkido I studied, and most other Hapkido kwans, there are no kata (it was considered in the mid-80s, and GM were encouraged to submit samples and agreements or disagreements). The thought on kata was not adopted. So I guess the gist of the threat argument is that we are superior to those that do kata. I would not agree.

The evidence shows otherwise. We're still waiting for that Tai Chi master to emerge and wipe the floor with the Muay Thai champ, but it still hasn't happened yet.

 

[now disabled]

The evidence shows otherwise. We're still waiting for that Tai Chi master to emerge and wipe the floor with the Muay Thai champ, but it still hasn't happened yet.

Oh for goodness sake please do you actually mean that for real or are you trying to stir up the pot?

 

[DaveB]

But they do uppercut, and general positioning and motion are the same. I have yet to see anyone perform a Uchi-Uke while fighting.

And that should answer your second question.

There's just so much wrong with your starting assumptions that as I skim over.your posts I struggle to know where to begin.

So instead I will reiterate the glaring hole in your logic that you completely failed to observe when I raised it earlier.

One of the best boxers of the present day attributes much of his success to a year plus of traditional dance classes.

Training, but not following the form of the modern boxing match.

I'm pretty shocked that you choose Uchi uke as it is everywhere. That you haven't seen it is more about you than the technique.

Your trouble is just one of dogma. X is how a real fight looks, therefore not X is not real fight.

No. Nothing is ever that simple.

These arts just come from a place and time that thought differently to you. When you get inside that mindset you find advantages. If you can't or won't then you miss it. Not all arts fit all people, but just because you miss it doesn't mean everyone does.

 

[Martial D]

The evidence shows otherwise. We're still waiting for that Tai Chi master to emerge and wipe the floor with the Muay Thai champ, but it still hasn't happened yet.

Oh for goodness sake please do you actually mean that for real or are you trying to stir up the pot?

Seems like a salient and factual point to make. Are you saying you disagree, and if so, why?

 

[Hanzou]

There's just so much wrong with your starting assumptions that as I skim over.your posts I struggle to know where to begin.

So instead I will reiterate the glaring hole in your logic that you completely failed to observe when I raised it earlier.

One of the best boxers of the present day attributes much of his success to a year plus of traditional dance classes.

So what. Anderson Silva (a master of Muay Thai and striking arts in general) said that Steven Segal taught him the basic front kick. Fighters say all kinds of kooky stuff to get attention.

I'm pretty shocked that you choose Uchi uke as it is everywhere. That you haven't seen it is more about you than the technique.

Then please show it being used in a fight. There's plenty of examples of Karatekas fighting other styles, including Machida in the UFC. Where is the Uchi Uko being used? Clearly if it was being used "everywhere" you should have no problem finding it right?

 

[now disabled]

There's just so much wrong with your starting assumptions that as I skim over.your posts I struggle to know where to begin.

So instead I will reiterate the glaring hole in your logic that you completely failed to observe when I raised it earlier.

One of the best boxers of the present day attributes much of his success to a year plus of traditional dance classes.

Training, but not following the form of the modern boxing match.

I'm pretty shocked that you choose Uchi uke as it is everywhere. That you haven't seen it is more about you than the technique.

Your trouble is just one of dogma. X is how a real fight looks, therefore not X is not real fight.

No. Nothing is ever that simple.

These arts just come from a place and time that thought differently to you. When you get inside that mindset you find advantages. If you can't or won't then you miss it. Not all arts fit all people, but just because you miss it doesn't mean everyone does.

thank goodness I ain't the only one that thinks he is missing large chunks of why this is done etc

and is also of the same opinion that just because he can't see it or as you say doesn't want to then it has to be wrong

 

[DaveB]

If the majority of martial artists were taking up martial arts for "fun and exercise", why do they believe that their art of choice would be effective against a boxer or a wrestler, and why does so much TMA training revolve around beating those types of fighters?

Now you're just trolling.

 

[now disabled]

Seems like a salient and factual point to make. Are you saying you disagree, and if so, why?

Ummm most masters are well into their later years and are very unlikely to be going wrong looking for fights and that is just the starting point on that ... I will say this again just because you personally do not think something is right and you cannot find the all important vids then it has to be your thoughts are correct and that is just not right at all it your own opinion and if you can't see things then it does not mean in any way they are not there

 

[Hanzou]

Now you're just trolling.

Am I?

And there's countless more.

It would seem that traditional martial artists are quite worried about how they stand up to boxers and wrestlers. Seems a bit odd to worry about that if you're just doing it for "fun".

 

[Buka]

When boxers shadowbox, they utilize the actual fighting method that they use when they're actually fighting.

I have yet to see a traditional martial arts form that resembles the actual fighting method of the martial art itself. Even in your videos, your actual fighting method more closely resembled kickboxing or what we see from MMA than the elaborate movements from your forms. I experienced the same thing in Karate. I personally loved the Bassai Dai kata, but there's no way I would ever look like that when I was actually fighting, unless I wanted to get socked in the face.

Which is why I believe you'd be better served by simply doing MMA. If you wish to keep it Chinese-based, Sanshou would be a nice option as well. Wasting your time dancing around with antiquated stances and weapons isn't a good use of your time if your goal is to make Jowga a practical martial arts system.

However, to each their own....

This got me to thinking....

I like shadow boxing, been doing it like forever. But just had the thought that to make it an exercise more like actual fighting, maybe one should emulate getting hit. Because you're going to get hit while boxing, no matter what.

Maybe the next time I shadow box I'll play with that. But I'll probably forget.

 

[now disabled]

So what. Anderson Silva (a master of Muay Thai and striking arts in general) said that Steven Segal taught him the basic front kick. Fighters say all kinds of kooky stuff to get attention.



Then please show it being used in a fight. There's plenty of examples of Karatekas fighting other styles, including Machida in the UFC. Where is the Uchi Uko being used? Clearly if it was being used "everywhere" you should have no problem finding it right?

Fistly maybe seagal did how do you know he didn't ?

secondly get of the UFC wagon there is way way way more to MA than that

and yes I do actually think you are just trying to troll and start fights or arguments

 

[now disabled]

Am I?

And there's countless more.

It would seem that traditional martial artists are quite worried about how they stand up to boxers and wrestlers. Seems a bit odd to worry about that if you're just doing it for "fun".

I think you have a serious you tube addiction personally

 

[Martial D]

Ummm most masters are well into their later years and are very unlikely to be going wrong looking for fights and that is just the starting point on that ... I will say this again just because you personally do not think something is right and you cannot find the all important vids then it has to be your thoughts are correct and that is just not right at all it your own opinion and if you can't see things then it does not mean in any way they are not there

Ohhh. Another case of a super well kept secret. Righto then. No evidence required.

 

[now disabled]

Ohhh. Another case of a super well kept secret. Righto then. No evidence required.

eh most masters in any of the arts are in their later years so do pray tell how that is hiding anything ...and I am not talking about the ones who say they are masters but the ones that really are

 

[Hanzou]

Ummm most masters are well into their later years and are very unlikely to be going wrong looking for fights and that is just the starting point on that ... I will say this again just because you personally do not think something is right and you cannot find the all important vids then it has to be your thoughts are correct and that is just not right at all it your own opinion and if you can't see things then it does not mean in any way they are not there

So your argument is that the overall skill level of TMAs have degraded? Where are the NEW masters?

Just a point of comparison: The general skill level of Bjj practitioners is quite a bit higher than when Royce Gracie won the first UFC 25 years ago. Which is why the Gracies don't really compete anymore, the overall skill level of the art has evolved way past them.

Interesting that you believe that only the old masters could stand a chance in the modern day, and that modern exponents don't possess or exceed their skill level...

Fistly maybe seagal did how do you know he didn't ?

Anderson Silva has thrown that kick before. Again, it was the BASIC front kick.

 

[DaveB]

Seems like a salient and factual point to make. Are you saying you disagree, and if so, why?

It's a 5 yr olds point.

Are you seriously saying that you critically assessed that statement in the context of the discussion and found no fault with it?

 

[now disabled]

So your argument is that the overall skill level of TMAs have degraded? Where are the NEW masters?

Just a point of comparison: The general skill level of Bjj practitioners is quite a bit higher than when Royce Gracie won the first UFC 25 years ago. Which is why the Gracies don't really compete anymore, the overall skill level of the art has evolved way past them.

Interesting that you believe that only the old masters could stand a chance in the modern day, and that modern exponents don't possess or exceed their skill level...



Anderson Silva has thrown that kick before. Again, it was the BASIC front kick.

Whose opinion is that on the Gracies ? and why yet again bring them into it they are a respected family and deserve to be given tat respect and not given your treatment

Secondly where did I say any TMA standards have dropped ? again that seems to be your sole opinion

again what do you know that means you say Seagal didn't teach him that do you have a hotline somewhere

Any other art you want to tell the world that is wrong and give your expert opinion on

Actually I never would ask this but I will to you

What ranks do you hold that gives you the right to be the expert and be careful what you pick to say as well jsut be careful as to date you haven't shown that you really understand things at all so pray do tell what ranks do you hold

 

[now disabled]

It's a 5 yr olds point.

Are you seriously saying that you critically assessed that statement in the context of the discussion and found no fault with it?

Don't you will get no where at all

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

I think you have a serious you tube addiction personally

People always said that there are Taiji masters live in the mountain who can kick Mike Tyson's butt. I don't believe that kind of statement. If you declare something, you will need to prove it.

I have not met a single Taiji person (without cross training) who can fight. Video is the best way to prove something.