Whats your favourite weapon?

[A.R.K.]

People often survive 9mm

Well, to be honest, people survive most gun shot wounds even up to the rifle calibers. Most people that get shot do not even fall down due to factors such as adrenaline rush or drugs/alchohol.

Or blow a hole the size of a foot ball in your torso!

With repect, no. Skin has elasticity which is why they commonly use media such as 10% ordinance geletin instead of water jugs or melons. The later give a false impression of a rounds effectiveness.

Take the lesson learnt by the FBI, get a 10mm or a 45.

The lesson that took quite a while to learn was that the round needed to have adequate penetration. Be it a 124/147 9mm, a 165/180 .40 S&W/10mm or a 200/230 .45 acp. It was not the caliber that was the issue, it was shot placement coupled with poor penetration. Remembr the 9mm has killed/stopped more Bg's than all other calibers combined because of it's worldwide popularity. Doesn't mean it's any better, just on par with the rest overall....which is pitifull. Handguns and hollywood are not on the same sheet of music as far as reality shootings are concerned.

For 9mm self defence, get the BeeSafe prefragmented ammo. This will kick a hole the size of a softball in the torso. Instant kill!

This round has the same concerns with it as does the Glazer/Magsafe line...poor penetration in soft tissue. Yes it will make a good flesh wound, but surface bleeding is not the same as hiiting a deep lying major blood vessel/artery. It will not stop a determined attacker. It will not disable him/her and prevent them from counter/continuing the attack.

Please be careful of the 'exotic' ammo lines or the companies that bandy about phrases such as 'stopping power', One stop shot ratios etc. The are catch prases begun by gun rags to sell magazines and products that advertise in them. Don't bet your life, or the life of a loved one on gimmicks.

Take care.

 

[MartialArtist]

Originally posted by Zhao Dai Wei
Actually Glock started off as a Military sidearm and gained quite a share in Europe. U.S. LEO agencies started taking notice in a large way towards the end of the 80's.



Alot depends on the bullet type i.e. Hp vs FMJ. But even then it would be very hard to distinguish between the two in a wound tract. Several ME's I have talked with say they are unable to distinguish caliber unless a slug or fragments are recovered. In handgun calibers that is, rifle is a different ballgame.



Haven't kept up with what they use nowadays, but the 9mm 147 subsonic in supressed weapons gained popularity with the seals for head shots at distance.

The bottom line would be to shoot the weapon that you are most comfortable/accurate with under stress. Don't worry about buzz-words like 'one-stop-shoots', bullet energy etc. As long as the round functions, penatrates to an adequate depth to reach something vital. Function, shot placement and penatration are the priority.

If anyone is interested for much more indepth coverage of firearms I would recommend www.glocktalk.com

Not just for Glocks but the whole deal.

Currently, almost no soldier in the elite forces (SEAL, Delta Force, Ranger, British SAS) use a Glock and for good reason.

Subsonic is not manufactured in large quantities, but there are a lot more .45 ACP and .308 ACP ones than 9mm, and .45 ACP is the choice for many soldiers.

 

[MartialArtist]

Originally posted by Johnathan Napalm
Good lord! People often survive 9mm gunshots. A .50 will blow your head off clean! Or blow a hole the size of a foot ball in your torso!

Take the lesson learnt by the FBI, get a 10mm or a 45.

Glock is great for reliability. For superb accuratecy, HK USP.

For 9mm self defence, get the BeeSafe prefragmented ammo. This will kick a hole the size of a softball in the torso. Instant kill!

Make sure you get DAO (Double Action Only). It is prosecutor-proof.

The exit wound of a .50 is pretty much large enough so will bleed to death regardless of where you're shot 80% of the time given you aim above the waist.

 

[MartialArtist]

Originally posted by Zhao Dai Wei
Well, to be honest, people survive most gun shot wounds even up to the rifle calibers. Most people that get shot do not even fall down due to factors such as adrenaline rush or drugs/alchohol.



With repect, no. Skin has elasticity which is why they commonly use media such as 10% ordinance geletin instead of water jugs or melons. The later give a false impression of a rounds effectiveness.




The lesson that took quite a while to learn was that the round needed to have adequate penetration. Be it a 124/147 9mm, a 165/180 .40 S&W/10mm or a 200/230 .45 acp. It was not the caliber that was the issue, it was shot placement coupled with poor penetration. Remembr the 9mm has killed/stopped more Bg's than all other calibers combined because of it's worldwide popularity. Doesn't mean it's any better, just on par with the rest overall....which is pitifull. Handguns and hollywood are not on the same sheet of music as far as reality shootings are concerned.





This round has the same concerns with it as does the Glazer/Magsafe line...poor penetration in soft tissue. Yes it will make a good flesh wound, but surface bleeding is not the same as hiiting a deep lying major blood vessel/artery. It will not stop a determined attacker. It will not disable him/her and prevent them from counter/continuing the attack.

Please be careful of the 'exotic' ammo lines or the companies that bandy about phrases such as 'stopping power', One stop shot ratios etc. The are catch prases begun by gun rags to sell magazines and products that advertise in them. Don't bet your life, or the life of a loved one on gimmicks.

Take care.

Well the 9mm is the choice for most SMG's as you get lots of bullets. A SMG using .50 AE will have ridiculous kick-back not to mention only 20 rounds maybe.

The 9mm parabellum has a very long history. The Nazis used them, the US used them, many people used them. Pistol wise, I'm not so sure on the 9mm, I'm guessing .357 (what most revolvers used) but I may be wrong. Remember, there were a lot more people killed in domestic issues than WWII (pistol casualties only) in the history of the US. And 9mm was and is the choice for civilians and law enforcement.

 

[MartialArtist]

Correction: No elite force member uses Glock 9mm

 

[A.R.K.]

Well the 9mm is the choice for most SMG's as you get lots of bullets. A SMG using .50 AE will have ridiculous kick-back not to mention only 20 rounds maybe.

I agree with you 100% on this. Another good reason is that you get excellent barrier penatration in a 9mm with fmj's.

No elite force member uses Glock 9mm

You could be right on this. I know that SF used to widely use 9mm but the .45 is coming back in vouge. But as far as military goes I was thinking more along the lines of Europe and the Middle East. Israel for example uses the Glock 19C 9mm with 115 grain FMJ in condition 3 for normal carry.

I think the other pistol companies you mentioned are excellent as well. I'm carrying a Beretta 92 on my side as we speak. But I have noticed as an Instructor for Academies and advanced in-service for officers that Glock users seem on average to have fewer malfunctions and better follow up accuracy. But, it all boils down to user preference.

My biggest point is not to get caught up into 'caliber wars' and OSS arguements. Nothing against M&S [I'm very familar with both as we travel in the same circles], but their 'Definitive Study' is badly flawed and misleads the reader with potentially hazardous information. Function, penatration, accuracy are the priorities. Everything else is icing

 

[MartialArtist]

Originally posted by Zhao Dai Wei
I agree with you 100% on this. Another good reason is that you get excellent barrier penatration in a 9mm with fmj's.



You could be right on this. I know that SF used to widely use 9mm but the .45 is coming back in vouge. But as far as military goes I was thinking more along the lines of Europe and the Middle East. Israel for example uses the Glock 19C 9mm with 115 grain FMJ in condition 3 for normal carry.

I think the other pistol companies you mentioned are excellent as well. I'm carrying a Beretta 92 on my side as we speak. But I have noticed as an Instructor for Academies and advanced in-service for officers that Glock users seem on average to have fewer malfunctions and better follow up accuracy. But, it all boils down to user preference.

My biggest point is not to get caught up into 'caliber wars' and OSS arguements. Nothing against M&S [I'm very familar with both as we travel in the same circles], but their 'Definitive Study' is badly flawed and misleads the reader with potentially hazardous information. Function, penatration, accuracy are the priorities. Everything else is icing

Israeli forces use Glock 9mm as their small arm. The Israelis have their Desert Eagle, which can use .357, .44, and .50. The Baby one can use 9mm, .40 S&W, and .45 ACP.

Glock is for supreme reliability, like SIG rifles or the AK-47. Glock 9mm has very little recoil, so yes, follow-up accuracy is great.

 

[Master of Blades]

Sorry moving a little back to the more primitive items......I have changed my mind. My new favorite is A Kamagong! Beautifully DENSE stick with a nice length and weight. Damn are they sexy :rofl:

 

[Johnathan Napalm]

Originally posted by Zhao Dai Wei
Well, to be honest, people survive most gun shot wounds even up to the rifle calibers. Most people that get shot do not even fall down due to factors such as adrenaline rush or drugs/alchohol.

With repect, no. Skin has elasticity which is why they commonly use media such as 10% ordinance geletin instead of water jugs or melons. The later give a false impression of a rounds effectiveness.

The lesson that took quite a while to learn was that the round needed to have adequate penetration. Be it a 124/147 9mm, a 165/180 .40 S&W/10mm or a 200/230 .45 acp. It was not the caliber that was the issue, it was shot placement coupled with poor penetration. Remembr the 9mm has killed/stopped more Bg's than all other calibers combined because of it's worldwide popularity. Doesn't mean it's any better, just on par with the rest overall....which is pitifull. Handguns and hollywood are not on the same sheet of music as far as reality shootings are concerned.


This round has the same concerns with it as does the Glazer/Magsafe line...poor penetration in soft tissue. Yes it will make a good flesh wound, but surface bleeding is not the same as hiiting a deep lying major blood vessel/artery. It will not stop a determined attacker. It will not disable him/her and prevent them from counter/continuing the attack.

Please be careful of the 'exotic' ammo lines or the companies that bandy about phrases such as 'stopping power', One stop shot ratios etc. The are catch prases begun by gun rags to sell magazines and products that advertise in them. Don't bet your life, or the life of a loved one on gimmicks.

Take care.

You need to get your facts checked before making so many wrong remarks.

1. 40, 45 , 50 will drop you where you stand. You won't be standing. Chances of you surviving is not good. For practical purpose, the 40 or 10mm is the best choice. The 50 is not practical.

2, Of course placement is the critical issue. However, in an emergency situation, torso shot is the most likely placement 99% of the time, unless you are elite forces. In torso shot, 40 (10mm), 45 will do the job just fine.

3. BeeSafe is proven in wound channel test. And so is MagSafe. These two eliminate the over penetration issue. Go with these prefragemented ammo. They are not what ZDW made them out to be.

4. Over penetration is the primary concern! I have no idea how you could be saying that lack of penetration is the issue. This makes me suspicious of your credential. Every firearm expert knows that over penetration is the problem. The issue is ENERGY TRANSFER! NOT lack of penetration! How can you get it wrong?

What do you think hollow point, Hydrashok, prefragmented ammos are for?

GIVE ME A BREAK!

Given your comment on the FBI lesson, I am certain that you are NOT what you claim to be. I would venture to state that you just read a bunch of info and post them.

 

[A.R.K.]

You need to get your facts checked before making so many wrong remarks.

I think you need to stop subscribing to 'Guns & Ammo' and similar gun rags and begin thinking on your own.

40, 45 , 50 will drop you where you stand.

It is physically impossible for these rounds to knock you down. We have something on this planet called the laws of physics, you may want to research this. For instance, for every action there is an opposite and equal reaction. If a handgun bullet could knock someone down physically it would also knock down the shooter. If a person falls down it is a psychological reaction not a physiological one in regards to the bullet itself. The only possible reaction is for example the bullet striking the pelvis in such a way that the body is unable to support itself. And that, in and of itself does not preclude the possibility that the Bg is still able to respond.

Chances of you surviving is not good.

Incorrect again. Most people that are shot, even with a rifle survive. If you disagree then simply respond with you researched documentation to support your claim. I am basing my information on 18 years military/LEO data with real live action shootings. I have taken custody of more shooting victims than I can remember. I collect data not only from our agency but agencies around the country. I await your data....

the 40 or 10mm is the best choice. The 50 is not practical.

The .40 and 10mm are gimmick calibers. Not that they aren't effective, they are. But not anymore so that the 9mm and .45. They were invented in conjunction with the ammo/firearms manufacturerers to boast sales to those that go for such things. And of course it worked because there are those such as yourself that are constantly looking for the magic bullet. Heres a hint to save you some money....it doesn't exist. Go practice your shot placement. You are correct on one thing, the .50 is not practical except for handgun hunting.

BeeSafe is proven in wound channel test.

So is Glazer/Magsafe, but none of them take into consideration oblique angles or obstructed torso shots. They are high priced gimmik rounds sold to those easily impressed with jello tests vs real life shootings. Please show us your data base with positive results in exotic ammo shootings please.....

I know far more about Magsafe than you my friend, I used to talk to Joe Zambone reguarly before he passed away. For a straight on, unobstructed torso shot on a smaller than average person...MAYBE it will be effective. And that is a big BIG maybe.

Over penetration is the primary concern!

Perhaps if your using FMJ's at high velocity...maybe. We use a 124 +P gold dot 9mm which has EXCELLENT penatration usually in the area of 14-18 inches in jello. Of the few times in MULTIPLE police action shootings we have had thus far only a small fraction of them were what could be termed 'shoot throughs'. And those rounds were recovered on the ground within a couple of feet of the Bg. The notion that most rounds zip through a body and sail down the street looking for innocent bystanders is incorrect. It 'can' happen but very rarely does in real life.

Every firearm expert knows that over penetration is the problem.

Could you please provide your data base on ALL of these experts that state this. Btw, I am an firearms expert and have been called into court to testify as to this expertise...so I'm one against. In addition I can provide a LARGE comprehensive list of experts who will go directly against your 'opinion'.

I would direct anyone serious about defense with a firearm to go beyond the gun rags as their information is extremely biased, that is an understatement. Check out firearmstactical.com for further references to authorities in this area. Also glocktalk.com, look for Shawn Dodson.

The issue is ENERGY TRANSFER

This is a gimmick tagline along the same line as 'one stop shots', 'temporary cavitation', 'knock down power', 'stopping power' etc. It is for the gullible with no technical expertise in what a wounding mechanism is, no offense. [But your the one who opened this can of worms].

Given your comment on the FBI lesson, I am certain that you are NOT what you claim to be.

Look again my friend, the conflict was ended with a 158 grain LHP from a .38 revolver. Please show us all where the .40/10mm is superior to the 9mm or .45. Please site all your data base references.

Feel free to post back if you really wanna play with this topic...have a nice day

 

[Master of Blades]

Originally posted by KatGurl
my favorite are knives. they can cut at any angle, they hurt, and they're shiny.

my second favorite are sticks. regular stick branches from trees. one reason is no one would suspect someone using them, and they're easy to get rid of.

You are not 12! :shrug:

 

[Cryozombie]

Originally posted by Zhao Dai Wei


So is Glazer/Magsafe, but none of them take into consideration oblique angles or obstructed torso shots. They are high priced gimmik rounds sold to those easily impressed with jello tests vs real life shootings. Please show us your data base with positive results in exotic ammo shootings please.....

Zhao,

I read that Glasser ammo will shred Kevlar vests. Not neccessarily penetrating it, but destroy it so that the next round will pass thru the vest. (It was in a paladin press book) Is this an accurate statement? Or is it just Hype by the books author? Again, the only thing I ever shot with this ammo (9mm BTW) was a ham, so I don't know the specifics of what it is REALLY capable of doing.

 

[Johnathan Napalm]

Originally posted by Zhao Dai Wei
I think you need to stop subscribing to 'Guns & Ammo' and similar gun rags and begin thinking on your own.

It is physically impossible for these rounds to knock you down. We have something on this planet called the laws of physics, you may want to research this. For instance, for every action there is an opposite and equal reaction. If a handgun bullet could knock someone down physically it would also knock down the shooter. If a person falls down it is a psychological reaction not a physiological one in regards to the bullet itself. The only possible reaction is for example the bullet striking the pelvis in such a way that the body is unable to support itself. And that, in and of itself does not preclude the possibility that the Bg is still able to respond.
Incorrect again. Most people that are shot, even with a rifle survive. If you disagree then simply respond with you researched documentation to support your claim. I am basing my information on 18 years military/LEO data with real live action shootings. I have taken custody of more shooting victims than I can remember. I collect data not only from our agency but agencies around the country. I await your data....
The .40 and 10mm are gimmick calibers. Not that they aren't effective, they are. But not anymore so that the 9mm and .45. They were invented in conjunction with the ammo/firearms manufacturerers to boast sales to those that go for such things. And of course it worked because there are those such as yourself that are constantly looking for the magic bullet. Heres a hint to save you some money....it doesn't exist. Go practice your shot placement. You are correct on one thing, the .50 is not practical except for handgun hunting.

So is Glazer/Magsafe, but none of them take into consideration oblique angles or obstructed torso shots. They are high priced gimmik rounds sold to those easily impressed with jello tests vs real life shootings. Please show us your data base with positive results in exotic ammo shootings please.....

I know far more about Magsafe than you my friend, I used to talk to Joe Zambone reguarly before he passed away. For a straight on, unobstructed torso shot on a smaller than average person...MAYBE it will be effective. And that is a big BIG maybe.
Perhaps if your using FMJ's at high velocity...maybe. We use a 124 +P gold dot 9mm which has EXCELLENT penatration usually in the area of 14-18 inches in jello. Of the few times in MULTIPLE police action shootings we have had thus far only a small fraction of them were what could be termed 'shoot throughs'. And those rounds were recovered on the ground within a couple of feet of the Bg. The notion that most rounds zip through a body and sail down the street looking for innocent bystanders is incorrect. It 'can' happen but very rarely does in real life.

Could you please provide your data base on ALL of these experts that state this. Btw, I am an firearms expert and have been called into court to testify as to this expertise...so I'm one against. In addition I can provide a LARGE comprehensive list of experts who will go directly against your 'opinion'.

I would direct anyone serious about defense with a firearm to go beyond the gun rags as their information is extremely biased, that is an understatement. Check out firearmstactical.com for further references to authorities in this area. Also glocktalk.com, look for Shawn Dodson.

This is a gimmick tagline along the same line as 'one stop shots', 'temporary cavitation', 'knock down power', 'stopping power' etc. It is for the gullible with no technical expertise in what a wounding mechanism is, no offense. [But your the one who opened this can of worms].

Look again my friend, the conflict was ended with a 158 grain LHP from a .38 revolver. Please show us all where the .40/10mm is superior to the 9mm or .45. Please site all your data base references.

Feel free to post back if you really wanna play with this topic...have a nice day

It is absolutely insane to state that you can take a 40, 45, 50 shot to the torso, let alone the head and still stand there. Pure garbage! If you take a center shot from a 45, and you will DROP DEAD!! Good lord ! the insanity!!

There are cases after cases where the bullet over penetrate the suspects, with 9mm. Without the energy transfer, the tissue destruction is minimal. It is absolutely insane to argue about this. Only an armchair firearm expert would not understand this.

ZDW, you sir is a fake and a fraud. I see no point what so ever in discussing this topic with you. Your posts are to be categorically ignored.

Phonies like you, tend to mix some factual information with flawed personal opinions and post misleading garbage that will get uninformed readers killed.

 

[GaryM]

This is my opinion on the whole pistol issue. 9mm with hydroshocks or equivilent ammo has plenty of stopping power for humans. Police are tought to 'double tap' ( shoot them twice) which is about as good as it gets for maximum shock. Only head or spinal column is an 'instant kill'. 40 and 45 is better for sure if you are comparing ball ammo only. If you carry a pistol as part of your job (law enforcement) then the Glock is great. Ultra reliable, light weight, up to 18 rounds per clip, very safe due to it being double action. (The trigger cocks and reseases the hammer on each shot, so you can carry it with one in the pipe.) It is also forgiving to lazy slobs who don't bother to clean it. If you want a pistol for more than just protection (i.e. fun) and want to be truly accurate forget the glock. Yeah yeah it will do 1.5" groups right out of the box yadda yadda. Not if you are holding it! Crappy site picture, horrible trigger pull, and just not the 'feel'. I can chase a beer can 25 yards with my .45 Kimber and not miss once with an eight round clip. Try that with a glock. Not going to happen.

 

[A.R.K.]

It is absolutely insane to state that you can take a 40, 45, 50 shot to the torso, let alone the head and still stand there. Pure garbage! If you take a center shot from a 45, and you will DROP DEAD!! Good lord ! the insanity!!

I'm beginning to think you just have to much time on your hands and are not really serious about all of the 'stuff' your posting. But just in case you really do subscribe to this nonesense, and for the benefit of those that simply haven't had the time or inclination to look deeply into this subject, here goes......

Contact the Las Vegas PD [I did]. Ask them about the police action shooting about 2 years ago in which an off duty officer got into a fire fight in a night club. The officer was shot eight times with a .40 and once with a 9mm. Let me repeat this in case you missed it. The officer was shot EIGHT TIMES WITH A .40 and once with a 9mm. Not only did he not fall down, he purposely dived for cover and returned fire with his piss-ant pocket .25. He scored 6 shots COM and the Bg was DRT. He survived surgery and is on duty today as far as I know. It is public record, check it out.

Suspect shot by a neighboring agency that I took custody of. He was shot 3 times with a 9mm COM [no exit wounds] and ONCE WITH A 12 GAUGE SHOTGUN, 00 Buck at close range. He was mentally challenged and not only did he NOT fall down he had to be physically subdued by 3 officers. These were picture perfect shots...but it's not a perfect world. And in case you are unaware of it...a shotgun at close range with 00 buck has more 'energy transfer' than SEVERAL .40's.

I can cite case after case that you can easily verify as they are public record after the investigation is completed. Again, I find it hard to believe that you seriously hold to the point of view you have expressed here.

Still waiting for you to cite your references and sources and experts.....

Technopunk,

I have no doubt that a Glazer/Magsafe makes a mess of a ham. But the point is shallow penetration. Will those rounds make it through an outstretched arm and deeply enough into a torso to strike vital organs or major blood bearing vessels? Nope. Please check out firearmstactical.com. There is several excellent articles and tons of reading material. Some directly speaking as to the dangers of the exotic rounds. Take care

 

[MartialArtist]

Originally posted by Johnathan Napalm
It is absolutely insane to state that you can take a 40, 45, 50 shot to the torso, let alone the head and still stand there. Pure garbage! If you take a center shot from a 45, and you will DROP DEAD!! Good lord ! the insanity!!

There are cases after cases where the bullet over penetrate the suspects, with 9mm. Without the energy transfer, the tissue destruction is minimal. It is absolutely insane to argue about this. Only an armchair firearm expert would not understand this.

ZDW, you sir is a fake and a fraud. I see no point what so ever in discussing this topic with you. Your posts are to be categorically ignored.

Phonies like you, tend to mix some factual information with flawed personal opinions and post misleading garbage that will get uninformed readers killed.

What he means is that the force of the bullet isn't what knocks you over. Physics tells us that you can't fall over from getting shot. However, people falling over is a result of you dying, or human response. If you get shot in the head, you'll fall, but it's not the force of the bullet but the bullet killing you that makes you fall over.

A .357 out of a high-powered rifle will go right through you. You won't fall over because there is little energy transfer. But, the person is likely to go to the ground if he gets shot out of a high-powered rifle.

 

[pesilat]

Originally posted by MartialArtist
What he means is that the force of the bullet isn't what knocks you over. Physics tells us that you can't fall over from getting shot. However, people falling over is a result of you dying, or human response. If you get shot in the head, you'll fall, but it's not the force of the bullet but the bullet killing you that makes you fall over.

A .357 out of a high-powered rifle will go right through you. You won't fall over because there is little energy transfer. But, the person is likely to go to the ground if he gets shot out of a high-powered rifle.

Getting shot in a vest changes this, right? Not as far as knocking down, but more energy transfer (about like getting punched, right)?

Mike

 

[MartialArtist]

Originally posted by pesilat
Getting shot in a vest changes this, right? Not as far as knocking down, but more energy transfer (about like getting punched, right)?

Mike

I'm noy 100% sure.

Many high-caliber rifles go right through kevlar vests. However, if the vest absorbs most of the energy of a 9mm, then it'll hit you with more force in the sense that it is like a punch.

A lot of people have been shot with a normal 9mm with vests on and it causes bruises.

Remember, there are many types of bullets for each caliber. The 5.56mm out of a M-16 like I said before, causes the swiss cheese effect where it bounces around in your body causing internal holes theoritically. A 7.62mm out of some snipers punch right through you.

 

[MartialArtist]

Anyway, if I had a Hummer, I will try to obtain one of these...

http://web2.airmail.net/bcunning/losat2.mpg

Kinetic Missile that can go Mach 5

 

[A.R.K.]

A good example would be an individual I took custody of several years ago. He was chasing a woman in her front yard with a butcher knife. Responding officers shot him multiple times in the arm & leg as his body was bladed to them. The rounds broke the upper arm and the femur bones. He fell down as a result of the injury, not the force of the rounds hitting his body.

An important note to this is that he was injured but not incapacitated. He was unable to continue the attack only because his knife had a limited range. Had it been a firearm he would have been able to return fire.

Being shot in the vest isn't fun of course, and describing it as a punch is a very good comparison.

And a clarification I think is in order. The .40 is fine for defense, however it needs to be kept in perspective. It is 1mm more than a 9mm and 1mm less than a .45. Velocity is similar to the 9mm and sectional densities are the same in regards to 115 9mm compared to 135 .40 compared to 185 .45 for example. Given similar velocity and sectional density a 1mm is not anything to get excited about. And certainly no reason to sell my 9 and .45 to get one

Priorities:
Function
Shot placement
Accuracy
Follow up shots

Everything else is just stuff to talk about