What's the thing that annoys you the most with some martial arts?

[8253]

Well we're in agreement then. All I'm saying is, why would you consider this particularly annoying? Do you think that a black belt OUGHT to mean something in particular, universally?

I dont think that it should have a universal meaning really, but i think that there are some people who use a "black belt" to try to get you to have respect for them or to try to make you think that they are above you and know more than you do. I guess i have more of a problem with braggarts who have never actually went through the training.

 

[theletch1]

Well we're in agreement then. All I'm saying is, why would you consider this particularly annoying? Do you think that a black belt OUGHT to mean something in particular, universally?

Well, I think it would be nice if you could expect a certain level of proficiency, experience and such on a universal level. However, knowing the diverse styles, gradings and such of the different arts and knowing that human beings are human beings that will never happen. It would be nice though.

"I dont think that it should have a universal meaning really, but i think that there are some people who use a "black belt" to try to get you to have respect for them or to try to make you think that they are above you and know more than you do. I guess i have more of a problem with braggarts who have never actually went through the training." I have a problem with this sort of individual on any level, martial arts or not.

 

[Aikikitty]

Well, I think it would be nice if you could expect a certain level of proficiency, experience and such on a universal level. However, knowing the diverse styles, gradings and such of the different arts and knowing that human beings are human beings that will never happen. It would be nice though.

"I dont think that it should have a universal meaning really, but i think that there are some people who use a "black belt" to try to get you to have respect for them or to try to make you think that they are above you and know more than you do. I guess i have more of a problem with braggarts who have never actually went through the training." I have a problem with this sort of individual on any level, martial arts or not.

I agree. I used to always be impressed with people who were a 'black belt'. I still am to a point but now it's more being impressed with the dedication and that individual's personality (if I would also really respect him/her on the street just by who they are). I know that many belt systems and schools opperate differently (and some are McDojos) but it's sad to hear about someone who became a black belt in 2 years (or less). Sometimes there is nothing wrong with that (unless the person is a jerk and 'struts his stuff') but to me it's more sad to hear, "I'm a black belt now! I've mastered the art and I don't need to do it any more." In my eyes, I think (and I've been told by my senseis) that a black belt just means that your finally good enough to really learn the art. The basics are learned and now it's time for the more advanced, deeper level stuff. :asian:

Just my 2 cents. :asian:

Robyn :asian:

 

[Tony]

I find it sad when people who have gained a certain level misuse their skills and even threaten and intimidate other people by holding out in a challenging manner! Also unruly children in class who have hardly any discipline and have to be told so many times to form up, but I guess at certain ages people have a lower attention span! Also what I find annoying is people who have won a few tournaments and then think they're invincible!

 

[Chicago Green Dragon]

It is sad to see people get to a certain level only to see that they have not gone farther then they were when they first started. They might be wearing an advanced color belt but other then having the knowledge of how to do something they have not fully attained or developed the knowledge of how to be.
With children one thing that also needs to be looked at is discipline in the home too. I dont think that parents should just expect it to be remedied at the dojo. It should be something that is also worked on at home too. The dojo might be another place where it is implemented but the parents also need to properly teach their children how to control themselves and not run around like a bunch of rampid rugrats.

Chicago Green Dragon

:asian:

I find it sad when people who have gained a certain level misuse their skills and even threaten and intimidate other people by holding out in a challenging manner! Also unruly children in class who have hardly any discipline and have to be told so many times to form up, but I guess at certain ages people have a lower attention span! Also what I find annoying is people who have won a few tournaments and then think they're invincible!

 

[loki09789]

I was reading a PARENTING magazine in the waiting room of my Chiro's office that had an article addressing the discipline/behavior management styles and the repercussions.

The author of the article interviewed a couple of child psychs that said that the rationalizing, choice driven and critical thinking development approaches had been taken too far and that old fashion basics like: Do it or else face the consequence types of parenting were more productive at times (of course they were talking in terms of reasonable consequences and not abuse...) because a childs reasoning, memory and critical thinking skills were too immature to benefit from 'newer' approaches. The example of repetition for 'three strikes and your out' types of tactics were criticized because of application not use. They suggested this:

Step one: Explain and verify that your instructions/goals are clear
two: First warning, repeat your instructions/goals and praise the corrected behavior
three: Second warning, shorter repeat of inst./goals w/ a mention of the consequences if it has to go any farther. Again, praise good behavior when they get back on track.

four: Last warning, immediately state what they did wrong, your actions that you took and how they didn't stay with the program and move into consequence phase. If there is any griping, verbally remind them that they are responsible for their actions and the consequences/rewards that come with them.

The thing to watch out for though are those kids who will start to connect the praise after they have settled down post-warning as a reward for the bad behavior, so you have to sprinkle some homespun logic in with the process.

I don't know if I totally agree with this strategy as explained, but it makes sense in theory.

It is nice to see the Psych community agreeing with those of us who teach/raise kids and see how the 'newer' approaches are not affective without some of the 'older' ways.

 

[Chicago Green Dragon]

Interesting points.

Chicago Green Dragon

:asian:

1. Students who, once they've learned the basics of, say, Kenpo Short Form 1, come to think that they never have to do the form again because they've learned everything that it might have to teach.

2. Instructors who are more interested in the latest and greatest nifty tech than what their students need to get.

3. Martial artists who somehow manage to get into fights all the time, or at least say that they do.

 

[Chicago Green Dragon]

Paul

I can't help but wonder how many of the child psychs are parents themselves and what is the outcome in their family life. I have met some interesting people in various professions dealing with behavioral science and the funny thing is many of them have some insightfull knowledge but when you look at their family life it is in shambles. I wonder if they listend to their own advice ever or maybe they have.

What do you think ?

Chicago Green Dragon

:asian:

I was reading a PARENTING magazine in the waiting room of my Chiro's office that had an article addressing the discipline/behavior management styles and the repercussions.

The author of the article interviewed a couple of child psychs that said that the rationalizing, choice driven and critical thinking development approaches had been taken too far and that old fashion basics like: Do it or else face the consequence types of parenting were more productive at times (of course they were talking in terms of reasonable consequences and not abuse...) because a childs reasoning, memory and critical thinking skills were too immature to benefit from 'newer' approaches. The example of repetition for 'three strikes and your out' types of tactics were criticized because of application not use. They suggested this:

Step one: Explain and verify that your instructions/goals are clear
two: First warning, repeat your instructions/goals and praise the corrected behavior
three: Second warning, shorter repeat of inst./goals w/ a mention of the consequences if it has to go any farther. Again, praise good behavior when they get back on track.

four: Last warning, immediately state what they did wrong, your actions that you took and how they didn't stay with the program and move into consequence phase. If there is any griping, verbally remind them that they are responsible for their actions and the consequences/rewards that come with them.

The thing to watch out for though are those kids who will start to connect the praise after they have settled down post-warning as a reward for the bad behavior, so you have to sprinkle some homespun logic in with the process.

I don't know if I totally agree with this strategy as explained, but it makes sense in theory.

It is nice to see the Psych community agreeing with those of us who teach/raise kids and see how the 'newer' approaches are not affective without some of the 'older' ways.

 

[theletch1]

Paul

I can't help but wonder how many of the child psychs are parents themselves and what is the outcome in their family life. I have met some interesting people in various professions dealing with behavioral science and the funny thing is many of them have some insightfull knowledge but when you look at their family life it is in shambles. I wonder if they listend to their own advice ever or maybe they have.

What do you think ?

Chicago Green Dragon

:asian:

CGD, it's often much easier to tell someone how to fix their problem than to fix your own. It doesn't require any personal responsibility/effort to explain to some one where they've gone wrong but often takes a great deal of effort to fix your own. I think that a lot of folks that are in the mental health business (my wife is in college for this field) begin to think that they have all the answers and are above reproach or they simply refuse to see that they have problems of their own because of the idea of "I already have all the answers 'cause I'm a professional". Physician heal thyself. This concept extends beyond the mental health field of course. I drive a truck for a living and have seen other drivers with the same mentality or dock workers that think that since they are around trucks all the time that they are expert drivers.

 

[Chicago Green Dragon]

Jeff you bring up several good points.

I can't help but sometimes wonder. If the professionals who give out advice for someone else what they would say if someone was in their mess and if they would do the same ? If so then why doesnt it work if they are so sure of the answers.
Do you remember the show frasher. With Dr Frasher Crane. I know its just a TV show but it makes you wonder if someone who is an answer man like him has all the answers for everyone else but themselves.

Chicago Green Dragon

:asian:

CGD, it's often much easier to tell someone how to fix their problem than to fix your own. It doesn't require any personal responsibility/effort to explain to some one where they've gone wrong but often takes a great deal of effort to fix your own. I think that a lot of folks that are in the mental health business (my wife is in college for this field) begin to think that they have all the answers and are above reproach or they simply refuse to see that they have problems of their own because of the idea of "I already have all the answers 'cause I'm a professional". Physician heal thyself. This concept extends beyond the mental health field of course. I drive a truck for a living and have seen other drivers with the same mentality or dock workers that think that since they are around trucks all the time that they are expert drivers.

 

[loki09789]

I think the problem is that when experts or anyone brings up a point/issue/idea, the discussion is theoretical and only exists in a vacuum - so it only is expressed in sanitary examples and ideal outcomes. Verbal answers are always easier than application solutions.

I don't care how much you know about something, when the rubber meets the road, it is how well you can pull it off: Teaching/Martial arts/Parenting or anything...

 

[Chicago Green Dragon]

Good Points.

The more I know, the more i see i dont know. :idunno:


Chicago Green Dragon

:asian:

I think the problem is that when experts or anyone brings up a point/issue/idea, the discussion is theoretical and only exists in a vacuum - so it only is expressed in sanitary examples and ideal outcomes. Verbal answers are always easier than application solutions.

I don't care how much you know about something, when the rubber meets the road, it is how well you can pull it off: Teaching/Martial arts/Parenting or anything...

 

[Jimmy"TheBear"]

Small groups of schools & associations who form circuits, hold tournaments, rotate their tournaments into their areas only, then hand out "Champion titles" like water. They then strut their titles for monitary gain and recognition! :barf:


This one is a laugh ->"I'm a 4th, he's a 4th, we'll make you a 4th, then you and him can make me a 5th" :idunno:


No touch knock outs. :lol:


Percieved greatness! :supcool:

 

[Gary Crawford]

Another thing that really irks me, is when people trash other styles and systems, they don't have any knowledge of. Lots of people form opinions based on second hand information.

I fully agree!

 

[Gary Crawford]

Tournament parents – the ones who focus on how many points junior needs to go to be State Champion, why so-and-so scored better in forms and if somebody’s time in rank puts them at a disadvantage.

Stop living vicariously through the kid.

I was going to post something simular,but maybe it's just me.When I was a child student(stone age of the seventies!),our group classes were behind closed doors.When my children were learning Teakwondo,I had to put up with the loud mouthed little league type parents.So many schools nowadays have an open training area where parents can watch,which is ok if the school maintains a policy regarding parents being polite.I just don't understand the ones that allow parents shouting at their kids in class.It just seems disrespectfull to the instructor.

 

[Nick Ellerton]

I was going to post something simular,but maybe it's just me.When I was a child student(stone age of the seventies!),our group classes were behind closed doors.When my children were learning Teakwondo,I had to put up with the loud mouthed little league type parents.So many schools nowadays have an open training area where parents can watch,which is ok if the school maintains a policy regarding parents being polite.I just don't understand the ones that allow parents shouting at their kids in class.It just seems disrespectfull to the instructor.

hey gary.
i would have to agree with you on that one, it is disrespectful towards the instructor no doubt about it. A similar incident happend at my training facility. Where we had just finished the class and we had fencers waiting up the back for their class, and we had a minute silience for on of those in the art that had passed and they were laoud and arrogant and i didnt appreciate the way they were acting. But that being said i can say that people who show little or no respect towards something that they do not understand.
cheers

 

[Mormegil]

1) Senior students who don't control their power when sparring juniors and beginners.


2) Mention of Bruce Lee in any non-JKD (or at least CMA) related contexts. For example, I saw a Wesley Snipes hosted Martial Arts show, showcasing many differents styles, with a HUGE tribute to Bruce Lee. None of the artists or teacher shown were JKD, or was there a mention of the existence of JKD.

 

[2fisted]

The most annoying thing I've ever experienced in training was at a Wing Chun school (that shouldn't have even claimed to be so, but that's another story) where the senior student often bragged to other students about fights he picked. Like the time in the bar when a guy bumped into his shoulder and didn't say 'excuse me'...

And this was a guy TEACHING people.

This school is one that combines Wing Chun with cardio-kickboxing (somehow) and teaches all kinds of weapons from many differents arts that no teacher there is certified in yet calls it a Wing Chun Kung Fu school. Only the physical side of the arts was taught. None of the spiritual or moral aspects of the martial arts were touched on. That bugged me. The teachers were of course extremely skilled and I'm nowhere near a fraction of the martial artists they were, but it the whole vibe I got from that place was just kinda wrong ya know?

So eventually I met another teacher who I identified with and things are better...

 

[Rainman]

6 to 13 year old black belts
children calling adults by their first name.
Junior students calling older and or senior students by their first name
Disrespect in almost any form
New age kata being done outside of a stage performance.(yes I know this one will get flack but its my grip)
Traditional stylest doing non traditional forms in compitition

Hmmmmm yes, quite bothersome to me as well. The dumming down and whole commercialization has gone too far.

 

[drunken mistress]

The problem with training exclusivly in the colored uniforms is when you are faced with a real-world situation, and are not wearing them. You must first excuse yourself from the fight to change your pants.

Then again, when outnumbered..isn't that normal?

As Captain Bravo said "Pass me my Brown Pants."

Be on the safe side and always go out in pants you can kick in!