What's the deal??

[tigerstorm]

Again Im not trying to raise nor belittle anyone with what Im saying only expressing things as Ive heard and learned them. I think that the Tracy web page has some information on the matter that mentions that they werent able to get much about Mitose because of some secret work through the U>S government.
Also I never have said that William Chow only studied under Mitose I only mentioned the fact that he is one of 5 black ranks from Mitose's Hawaiin school. I would assume that this means he did train under Mitose. As for Mitoses techniques, I dont know about you but I wasnt there, so Im not goign to praise nor question them. All Im asking I guess is that we stop belittling a man that no one seems to be able to find any information about, good or bad. Again nothing ive said is in anyway directed to insult or offend anyone. Ive heard rumors that Chow studied his fathers art, Ive also heard that this was never done and that his father never knew anything.
The Two gentlemen in question, Chow and Mitose both seem to have very clouded pasts, it seems that the only true information on them is what one person has heard or supposedly seen. I think perhaps we should leave these to deceased men (whether right nor wrong) to rest in piece and not frown on them if we were not there to see what they have done or for that matter have not done.
Deepest respects, Tigerstorm

 

[Chiduce]

For those interested in another side of the Mitose story; the kiyojute ryu kempo bugei wedsite of Soke Durbin has what is supposed to be very reliable information in his article on James M. Mitose! Kirk And Tigerstorm; the both of you should find this article very insightful and informative! The url is http://www.kiyojuteryu.org/soke/ then click on the online articles section! Soke Durbin is an honored martial historian and authority in the area of ancient and modern Kempo/Kenpo Karate, Jujitsu/Jujutsu, and Aikijujutsu. The Mitose article is entitled " James Masayoshi Mitose: The First American Kempo Master" ! You can also enjoy the other 69 articles left. Sincerely, In Humility; Chiduce!

 

[alan libby]

Whow - Gentleman that was the most sorrowful thing I have read in a long time - First of all tigerstorm - good job-
you my friend have been doing your homework - next - in fact one could be in jail and work out of the cell or off grounds
- it is call work release - and in that time and day one could earn the right to do so.
and as tiger said he did work with hanchi j - mentaly and when the 24 hour guard was not taking notice for giving RESPECT to the two phyical did enter the seraph. U see this is call respect,
to a man that had many thing go a stray in his life. but that does mean that he was not a good martial artist.
after all we can not change the action of others / all we can do is to change ourselves
three/ keys

 

[kelly keltner]

You have to wonder about a person claiming to be the head of a system that was taught to him while he was a guard in a jail by an inmate. You also have to take into consideration what jail it was. Folsom prison is a pretty famous place, because it had the many of the worst inmates out there. I think he is capitalizing on an opportune situation since Mitose is dead and can't refute the truth.

Juchnik was naver a guard
kell

 

[Karazenpo]

Wow, a lot of misinformation here. First of all, Kelly is right, Juchnik was never a guard, one of his students was and he put him in touch with Mitose. Secondly Mitose was never a Shinto priest or an ordained minister either-this came out at his trial. Thirdly-work release? Gardening? That's a new one on me. The highly respected Professor Eugene Sedeno also made these visits in question. I have this from phone conversations with the Professor, so this is not heresay. It is true that the guards didn't really supervise these visits because over the years Mitose proved them no problem. The visits were outside on a grass area at a picnic table and Mitose verbalized and sometimes made hand gestures when explaining something. Mostly he would tell them where to look for the information they were seeking. Did Juchnik train Thomas Barros Mitose? Well, Thomas was originally a Joe Halbuna Kajukenbo black belt. I know for a while Juchnik and others attempted to get him involved originally and went over some material but in the end, from what I was told, Thomas was not interested and later did his own thing with his father's art. Now, was he a con man and criminal? I would have to say the jury has long been in on that one. Again, I have first hand knowledge of the trial transcripts and his probation officer's report and there is no doubt in my mind that he was involved in criminal activities along with the murder and extortion he was accused of. Martial arts training and ability? Information on an A&E Investigation called: Hawaii: The Gateway to the Martial Arts (Info from John Bishop), a 92 year old martial art classmate of Mitose who states Mitose studied under Nabura Tanamaha, a first or second Choki Motobu black belt in Hawaii. If this is true then he had Kenpo Karate training, Okinawan Kenpo Karate. Much more has also been uncovered in this investigation. Professor Jaimie Abregana is conducting the investigation. We are waiting on this and also on Shihan Mike Brown, another highly respected martial artist and historian from Rhode Island, not too far from my home, who related to me that he has documentation of Mitose training in Japan and will be releasing it in the near future although it is not under the Yoshida lineage that the Tracy website reports. Shihan Brown has shared some of this information with me. I also had some questions run past Sijo Adriano Emperado, founder of Kajukenbo who also studied with Mitose for a while by my friend Professor Gerry Scott of Hawaii. One of my questions was: Could Mitose have learned the 'surface arts', possibly from a book, had some natural ability, put it together and taught it to unsuspecting Hawaiians? He stated no, that Mitose's ability was that of a master instructor and that the kenpo he taught was believed by the seniors of that time to have been Okinawan in origin but no proof was ever given. Hey, don't shoot the messenger. This is what I have come up with my research. Please bear in mind, I'm not trying to prove or disprove anything about Mitose, I'm just attempting to get at the facts the best I can. So, as I stated at the beginning of my post, some are far off on this Mitose thing. I have seen adds for the Juchnik videos and it appears to me he teaches the traditional Okinawan Kenpo Karate forms as Kosho-Shorei ryu which very well may be true if A&E is right. Respectfully submitted, Professor Joe Shuras

 

[kelly keltner]

Thank you Proffesor I was kinda wiped out when I typed that, and have the energy to reply to all the missinformation that was printed on that thread. I talked to Shihan Brown the other day and he had nothing but good things to say about you. I thank you for the time you took to clear up the information on this thread.

kelly

 

[Karazenpo]

I forgot a few things. I found Dr. William Durbin's website to be highly inaccurate when it comes to anything that has to do with Mitose and Hassan. As far as Nmir Hassan a.k.a. Terry Lee goes, yes, he was a student of Mitose's for about 2-3 months and all that Koga Ha Ryu Ninjitsu training is all bull. Mitose never trained under Seiko Fujita. I'll be back with more information on that shortly.

 

[Karazenpo]

I forgot a few things. I found Dr. William Durbin's website to be highly inaccurate when it comes to anything that has to do with Mitose and Hassan. As far as Nmir Hassan a.k.a. Terry Lee goes, yes, he was a student of Mitose's for about 2-3 months and all that Koga Ha Ryu Ninjitsu training is all bull. Mitose never trained under Seiko Fujita. I'll be back with more information on that shortly.

------

Here's what I was looking for. As some of you know I've been a moderator on the Kajukenbo Cafe for a couple of years now. This is a post I received in regards to a topic I did on James Mitose:

Title: Re:Solving a Mitose Mystery (?)

Post by: Henso on June 22, 2004, 11:54:34 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
For factual information on Fujita Seiko and his various arts, my I humbly suggest my site dedicated to his martial arts career, which is collected from independent historical resources: http://fujitaseiko.tripod.com.

In my research I found no evidence that their is or was anyone who learned Fujita's Ninjutsu, and in fact, interviews with him categorically state that he didn't teach the system to anyone. As concerns the matter of Nanban Sato ryu Kenpo-Jutsu, it is not a Kenpo system as is understood currently, but, a grappling system that is related to the famous Seigo ryu, via its branch school, Nanban Ippon ryu.

Please review and comment/critique away. Additionally, any factual information about Fujita that is not present would be appreciated.

Phillip T. Hevener

 

[Karazenpo]

Thank you Proffesor I was kinda wiped out when I typed that, and have the energy to reply to all the missinformation that was printed on that thread. I talked to Shihan Brown the other day and he had nothing but good things to say about you. I thank you for the time you took to clear up the information on this thread.

kelly

And Thank You also, Kelly!

 

[GAB]

Hi all you guys that will talk like you have about Hanshi and to think I got a week suspension and I never said anything as bad as what has come out of some of these mouths, and talk about a lack of knowledge..First I would like to thank Professor Joe and Kell, but as far as me well I am and have been in trouble for speaking up at various times but these people, that took the time to say what they did with out any knowledge.. Pretty sad, I have to say for the Moderators and the people involved.. I got into it with Doc over his statements about Hanshi Bruce Juchnik..I have a red mark against me and I see one against Doc, I hope it was the same topic makes me feel better if it is.. Ok are you ready??
It is late and I was going to go to bed until I stumbled on this topic.. Now I will start.. Lets see, Hanshi has written 4 books on the subject.. He has a great web sight go to vivisimo and type in SKSKI, it will give some info. Hanshi will have his yearly Gathering in OR. in September, we will be posting it shortly.. By the way this is his 17th one.. He is internationally known and respected. Yes Thomas Mitose is also involved because it is a hand me down from generation to generation, Martial Art??? Hanshi is the one who felt it should be that way, he even convinced GM Mitose to do it, Father and son were estranged for years in fact.. That is a different story and I will not go into it at this time. The art is *Kosho Shorei Ryu Kempo* *Kosho Ryu Kempo*
There is a reason for that but if you go to the site it will tell you all about it..
Hanshi is a great Martial Artist and that is all I will say regarding that..I have known him for along time about 16 years, most great fighters have a reputation and it is not good to be fighter unless you are in the ring and are making money..Hanshi was and is a fighter, Kumite is a word that they use as far as sparring goes, this is a Japanese art and Okinawan, if you know history about Chuanfa, Kenpo, Karate,Tode then you will know what I am talking about, if not, you won't..Pretty simple. He has been in the arts for 40+ years.. (I started 1959 USMC) only different paths.. Enough for tonight, stand by for more, I will return and continue where I leave off.. Just like some of the old time movies each week has a new installment.. But Iwill be back sooner. I need to sleep also, Night. Regards, G

 

[Karazenpo]

Wow, a lot of misinformation here. First of all, Kelly is right, Juchnik was never a guard, one of his students was and he put him in touch with Mitose. Secondly Mitose was never a Shinto priest or an ordained minister either-this came out at his trial. Thirdly-work release? Gardening? That's a new one on me. The highly respected Professor Eugene Sedeno also made these visits in question. I have this from phone conversations with the Professor, so this is not heresay. It is true that the guards didn't really supervise these visits because over the years Mitose proved them no problem. The visits were outside on a grass area at a picnic table and Mitose verbalized and sometimes made hand gestures when explaining something. Mostly he would tell them where to look for the information they were seeking. Did Juchnik train Thomas Barros Mitose? Well, Thomas was originally a Joe Halbuna Kajukenbo black belt. I know for a while Juchnik and others attempted to get him involved originally and went over some material but in the end, from what I was told, Thomas was not interested and later did his own thing with his father's art. Now, was he a con man and criminal? I would have to say the jury has long been in on that one. Again, I have first hand knowledge of the trial transcripts and his probation officer's report and there is no doubt in my mind that he was involved in criminal activities along with the murder and extortion he was accused of. Martial arts training and ability? Information on an A&E Investigation called: Hawaii: The Gateway to the Martial Arts (Info from John Bishop), a 92 year old martial art classmate of Mitose who states Mitose studied under Nabura Tanamaha, a first or second Choki Motobu black belt in Hawaii. If this is true then he had Kenpo Karate training, Okinawan Kenpo Karate. Much more has also been uncovered in this investigation. Professor Jaimie Abregana is conducting the investigation. We are waiting on this and also on Shihan Mike Brown, another highly respected martial artist and historian from Rhode Island, not too far from my home, who related to me that he has documentation of Mitose training in Japan and will be releasing it in the near future although it is not under the Yoshida lineage that the Tracy website reports. Shihan Brown has shared some of this information with me. I also had some questions run past Sijo Adriano Emperado, founder of Kajukenbo who also studied with Mitose for a while by my friend Professor Gerry Scott of Hawaii. One of my questions was: Could Mitose have learned the 'surface arts', possibly from a book, had some natural ability, put it together and taught it to unsuspecting Hawaiians? He stated no, that Mitose's ability was that of a master instructor and that the kenpo he taught was believed by the seniors of that time to have been Okinawan in origin but no proof was ever given. Hey, don't shoot the messenger. This is what I have come up with my research. Please bear in mind, I'm not trying to prove or disprove anything about Mitose, I'm just attempting to get at the facts the best I can. So, as I stated at the beginning of my post, some are far off on this Mitose thing. I have seen adds for the Juchnik videos and it appears to me he teaches the traditional Okinawan Kenpo Karate forms as Kosho-Shorei ryu which very well may be true if A&E is right. Respectfully submitted, Professor Joe Shuras

Correction on my above post. The A&E special is entitled: 'The Gateway: Martial Arts in Hawaii', not 'Hawaii: Gateway to the Martial Arts.'

 

[GAB]

Hi again, up early got to get going but I wanted to say a few more things.

Hanshi, in his early career was involved with many aspects of the arts, along with teaching at several dojos, He was involved with some of the kickboxing events along with FMA, Remy Presas also Angel Cabalas, Was a Tracy man I have seen many different ranks given to him but try and find him in theTracy lineage, he had a fall out with Al Tracy and was pretty much expunged (Mormons that leave the flock have that done to them, EPAK, late EP, and Tracy are both Mormons) I am not sure if Hanshi was a mormon or not but he was expunged. They will say different if confronted..
Hanshi, was teaching a class and talking about Mitose and a student at the class was a Prison Guard at Folsom, said there was an old prisoner at Folsom by that name and Hanshi should go over and check it out.

Hanshi did and met Mitose, knew him for about 4 years tried to get him a new lawyer and an appeal but as things were progressing Mitose died.
Hanshi wrote his first book, about the ordeal and then wrote another book about the man Mitose and how he had affected his life.

The original meet was in the late 70s Mitose died in early 80s, Terry Lee who was the student that did the killing, his Lawyer was an appointed PD and his name was Johnny Cochran. Terry lee rolled over and did a few years, moved back East and changed his name. In arabic his chosen name, means *Panther Assassan or gate keeper* which ever story you read..
Many rumors many lies many different thoughts many opinions. Reminds me of what has happened to EPAK since Ed Parker died..Truly interesting??

Hanshi felt the old man he got to know, and as he said, loved, was a victim, others say, he was a con artist and not good at Kenpo.

Who are you going to believe??? Well Go to Hanshi's web site SKSKI contact, like I said earlier check it out, with a search engine, it is all out there, all you have got to do is seek and you shall find.
Hanshi is going to have his 17th Gathering pretty soon, you can find out if you want to, the web is easy to find lots of stuff, rumors etc. and half truths, or what ever, or ask someone who heard this from someone that knew this guy but forgot his name.

Call Hanshi, he has it listed on his site or the people who monitor it will get to him he isn't into e-mails much, lots of trash talk etc. this event happened between 20/25 years ago he is tired of the hammering, he has been involved in this event and he has written about it and still does.
He gives seminars all over the US and various other countries, he is a busy man. I just recently talked to Patrick McCarthy, I was getting a couple of books about Motobu Choki, He thinks highly of Hanshi, we e-mailed a few times.. when you call it is different, than being annon like the person who started this thread, can we all understand that???

Tracy has his story about Mitose, some believe it others don't EPAK has its story about Chow, but will not go back to Mitose because they say Chow learned from another. Right, Mitose was a teacher in Hawaii he taught Thomas Young and a few others, Chow and a few others, Chow taught Parker and few others, Emperado taught a few others, Leoning taught a few others Gascon taught a few others...

Relate that to Abraham who begat, who begat, who begat, who begat..
Now with out sarcasm, can you see where I am going?
Judaism and Islam both go back to Abraham.. different Mothers of their lineage they go with. But the same Father..A little controversy for you??

Mitose started this Kempo Martial Art in Hawaii, and if it were not for him, what we call Ken/mpo would not be here.. Kempo Mitose, Kenpo Chow..

That is the reason Hanshi went and saw this old man in the prison.. Can you imagine his surprise, can you imagine what was going through Hanshi's mind??
Well he wrote about it, like I say seek, you shall find??

Check it out. seek what the instructor before you sought. Or else, just listen to the Nit pickers.. Mitose told Hanshi, "beware of the nit pickers". Hanshi has documents, so do others, Hanshi has an organization dedicated to the preservation of the memory of GGMJMM. SKSKI are the initials go find out what they mean... Or not..

I am just telling you how Hanshi would put it, if you are interested go to the prison, if not, don't go. What would you have done in his place???

I am Talking about Hanshi Bruce Juchnic..this man who has dedicated his life to this Quest. He will tell you it has been a real ride.. Call him, ask him, who better to talk to then Hanshi?? Doc? I don't think so. Al Tracy? I don't think so. He has his story, Ed had his, Bruce has his. Go to the web site, Go to the Gathering, or not.

Like I said, I just stumbled on to this thread, Hope this helps a little. Or not.. Regards, G

 

[Karazenpo]

Hi Gary, I've never met or seen Hanshi Juchnik do his kempo but a friend of mine who is a very well respected kempo instructor in New Hampshire, Sensei John Evans, feels his abilities are right up there with the best of them. I also firmly believe and I don't feel it's opinion but fact, that Mitose is responsible for all these Kenpo/Kempo/Kajukenbo offshoots we have today. I've said it once if I said it 100 times, he planted the seed in those early years that others successfully nurtured and cultivated into the many fine systems we practice today. I understand why some would like to cut him out of the lineage because I am also a firm believer, again, I feel this is fact and not opinion, that his (Mitose's) actions were that of serious criminal intent. Did Terry Lee deal his way to a 'get out of jail card' early? Absolutely!, no different than Sammy 'The Bull" and John Gotti but that does not make Mitose any less guilty for his actions. Again, I have the transcripts and a copy of a probation report. Gm. S. George Pesare has a saying about the lineage and history of one's art: "You won't know where you're going to if you don't know where you came from." If you don't believe in lineage, fine, that's your perrogative. I have found that many systems I have explored always believed in lineage except when it comes to the Kenpo/Kempo arts where it is divided and the only reason that I can see is those who do not wish to accept Mitose due to his background. The way I look at it is very simple. If you had a 'great-great' grandfather who was a mass murderer as much as you would be ashamed of him you just can't simply cut him off your family tree and if it were possible to go back in time and abort him, then you wouldn't be here today either! It's just the way it is.
We are all waiting for the A&E report but there is one thing for sure, Mitose set up shop and taught something he called Kenpo Jiu Jitsu in Hawaii during that era. We have no other name, then Professor Henry S. Okazaki, founder of Danzan Ryu Jiu Jitsu, that taught Professor William K.S. Chow anything. Some say Kung Fu but no name has surfaced yet. The only paper trail from Chow led to Professor Thomas Young to James M. Mitose. Like it or not, that's it! Respectfully submitted, Professor Joe Shuras

 

[Brother John]

Hey Karazenpo-

I think that in Mr. Parker's Infinite Insights books it says that Mr. Chow also studied martial arts with his family....esp. father and uncles.

what about that?

Your Brother
John

 

[GAB]

Hi Professor Joe, We have talked in the past.. Thank you for the favorable response..Regarding lineage in Kenpo and Kempo, Yes I agree..

Now lets look at the FMA they are extremely proud of the heritage of the forefathers if you wish to call them that, not quite right (Starters of a particular system). Most of them are in glee about the people they killed and how many "duel to the death" they were in, with the sword and dagger, the stick and dagger etc. Pretty bloody. Look at the Samurai, very proud of all the death, I am in favor of the Honorable and sport only or the exercise only because I think when the time to use it you will have gleened enough to help you in the situation of combat if you will, or physcial altercation.

I like the FMA for the stick and the flow and the ability to be involved with out contact and yet learn something that at my age will help me if I have a cane or stick or with out, you still are able to do the flow with your hands.

The guys you read about who do this for their exercise and enjoyment are very long lived it seems at least some of them so I will try and keep the weight off and stay in shape..That alone will help you in combat, have good stamina, better for you all around.

Raymond Tobosa. Tobosa Kali/Escrima System/style, I was reading where he was a student of Fred Lara who in turn was a student of W.K. Chow, who was a student of Thomas Young who was a student of Mitose, he also studied Judo under Richard Takamoto son in law to Henry Okazaki.

He had a varied learning experience with others and not just Killer Arnisadors, I read more and it seems he borrowed the octagon and the 8 path of wisdom from the Budda thinking. Along with a similar looking yin and yang symbol, I Ching, he seems very responsible and not the kill kill of the other systems. Also he studied other noted practioners of the various healing and spiritual Arts. His is a hand down (father to son, brother etc.)..

I am going to have to check it out, I have seen it in the Dojo I am in because of, Kosho Ryu Kempo along with JKD and others..I am told I practice FMA, not just one but many of the ones my Sensei feels are good for me at my age and my mental outlook and it is designed around many things..

I am told it is Kali like Guro Dans and also Eskrima c/k who knows unless it is written or they tell you specifically, I also read about Floro Villabrille is part of the system, It has to be good with these people in it, and I am definetly finding out more about it so I can have what I want.

Since I am very good friends with my Sensei 13+ years I will probabley get a good listen and a talk..Always speak up and try to learn what is right for you and not just what they want to teach, that is why it is so important for eclectic Dojo's..

All I am reading on this system is very close to Kosho Ryu Kempo..
Yes I believe their will be alot of information that will come out of the a&e tv special I am waiting to see it..

Now to get to your and mine in respects to LEO, we are trained by the people, that our higher ups want us to learn to handle altercations in a certain way. Plus we have tools at our disposal, handcuffs, Baton, Firearms, etc. Then some go outside of the Depts training, (after initial learning and probation is over) go to a person who that Department thinks is ok to teach their men and women to use in the street, as we say..

Or they will go to someone they want and might not be in policy we (LEO) have seen the guy or girl go out and find a different firearm or back up not good..
Now that (they the depts) have a lot to offer at least the one I was in, so you have a much better selection for individual preferance and it is still ok within the dept policy, this is good.

Anyway, I will talk later, thanks for the response, Joe, I always enjoy reading your stuff and talking to you..

Waiting for more response from other participants..OK?? Regards , Gary

 

[Karazenpo]

Hey Karazenpo-

I think that in Mr. Parker's Infinite Insights books it says that Mr. Chow also studied martial arts with his family....esp. father and uncles.

what about that?

Your Brother
John

Hello Brother John, Yes, I have also read about Chow's Kung Fu connection. I have done much indepth research on this and the only thing I can find and this 'allegedly' came from Chow himself is that he had learned some secret Kung Fu moves from his father and grandfather in 'dreams', that being the most repeated connection to date. Never heard uncles just the father and grandfather....but in 'dreams'. The problem with these stories are is when they are repeated enough times over the years and decades without verification they begin to take on a reality of their own and a myth is born and then perpetuated. If you check into this you will draw the same conclusion (of Chow being taught by his father, etc.). The closest thing I've come up with so far is this and I'm reaching a little. Chow had the utmost respect for Professor Henery S. Okazaki. He even took the title of 'Professor' in honor of Okazaki. Okazaki's most influential teacher was Master Wo Chung, a Chinese Kung Fu stylist who taught a system when translated mean't 'Boxing with the intent to kill'. Okazaki so respected Chung that he named the style he founded 'Danzan Ryu' due to the fact this is the name Chung always called the main island of Hawaii (Danzan). We know Chow had this close relationship with Okazaki so perhaps there is some kung fu connection there, however, I'll say this. If you ever saw Chow move there is no mistaking there is a strong kung fu influence there. Sigung John Bishop has a video of Chow on his website, check it out if you haven't seen it yet and let me know what you think. Respectfully, Professor Joe Shuras

 

[Karazenpo]

Hi Professor Joe, We have talked in the past.. Thank you for the favorable response..Regarding lineage in Kenpo and Kempo, Yes I agree..

Now lets look at the FMA they are extremely proud of the heritage of the forefathers if you wish to call them that, not quite right (Starters of a particular system). Most of them are in glee about the people they killed and how many "duel to the death" they were in, with the sword and dagger, the stick and dagger etc. Pretty bloody. Look at the Samurai, very proud of all the death, I am in favor of the Honorable and sport only or the exercise only because I think when the time to use it you will have gleened enough to help you in the situation of combat if you will, or physcial altercation.

I like the FMA for the stick and the flow and the ability to be involved with out contact and yet learn something that at my age will help me if I have a cane or stick or with out, you still are able to do the flow with your hands.

The guys you read about who do this for their exercise and enjoyment are very long lived it seems at least some of them so I will try and keep the weight off and stay in shape..That alone will help you in combat, have good stamina, better for you all around.

Raymond Tobosa. Tobosa Kali/Escrima System/style, I was reading where he was a student of Fred Lara who in turn was a student of W.K. Chow, who was a student of Thomas Young who was a student of Mitose, he also studied Judo under Richard Takamoto son in law to Henry Okazaki.

He had a varied learning experience with others and not just Killer Arnisadors, I read more and it seems he borrowed the octagon and the 8 path of wisdom from the Budda thinking. Along with a similar looking yin and yang symbol, I Ching, he seems very responsible and not the kill kill of the other systems. Also he studied other noted practioners of the various healing and spiritual Arts. His is a hand down (father to son, brother etc.)..

I am going to have to check it out, I have seen it in the Dojo I am in because of, Kosho Ryu Kempo along with JKD and others..I am told I practice FMA, not just one but many of the ones my Sensei feels are good for me at my age and my mental outlook and it is designed around many things..

I am told it is Kali like Guro Dans and also Eskrima c/k who knows unless it is written or they tell you specifically, I also read about Floro Villabrille is part of the system, It has to be good with these people in it, and I am definetly finding out more about it so I can have what I want.

Since I am very good friends with my Sensei 13+ years I will probabley get a good listen and a talk..Always speak up and try to learn what is right for you and not just what they want to teach, that is why it is so important for eclectic Dojo's..

All I am reading on this system is very close to Kosho Ryu Kempo..
Yes I believe their will be alot of information that will come out of the a&e tv special I am waiting to see it..

Now to get to your and mine in respects to LEO, we are trained by the people, that our higher ups want us to learn to handle altercations in a certain way. Plus we have tools at our disposal, handcuffs, Baton, Firearms, etc. Then some go outside of the Depts training, (after initial learning and probation is over) go to a person who that Department thinks is ok to teach their men and women to use in the street, as we say..

Or they will go to someone they want and might not be in policy we (LEO) have seen the guy or girl go out and find a different firearm or back up not good..
Now that (they the depts) have a lot to offer at least the one I was in, so you have a much better selection for individual preferance and it is still ok within the dept policy, this is good.

Anyway, I will talk later, thanks for the response, Joe, I always enjoy reading your stuff and talking to you..

Waiting for more response from other participants..OK?? Regards , Gary

Thanks Gary, same here!