What would you do?

[OC Kid]

Let him continue. When he is ready for his next promotion..test him then fail him if he doesnt meet your requirements or expectations.

During the review portion of the test tell him he needs to spend more time working on say forms self defense or what ever he is lacking.

Mention the need for training at home and more time in the school.

Who knows it could be at that age a medical problem or a domestic problem (the wife/kids) or even spending a lot of hours at his job.

But thats how I would handle it. Sometimes we all need a little wake up call.

 

[Martialscientist]

Let him do his thing, after all he pays you.

By the way if you wanted to, could you legally throw him out?

 

[chinto01]

Let him do his thing, after all he pays you.

By the way if you wanted to, could you legally throw him out?

We are a no contract school so I do not see where there would be a problem. I am not throwing him out, I am just telling him that I have nothing to offer him anymore if he does not start to put the effort in. It will be in his court after that.

In the spirit of bushido!

rob

 

[Kenpojujitsu3]

Try to motivate the student but never "force" a test. Rank is earned and it has to be earned by choice to have any value.

James Hawkins III, HI
Hawkins Kenpo Karate
Baltimore, MD

 

[Martialscientist]

Yes, that would be,

I agree.

 

[chinto01]

Well Saturday class came and went and I had a discussion with the previously mentioned student. As I suspected he has no desire to put forth the extra effort saying that he is to busy. He also told me once again that he is not worried about progressing and that he is doing this to stay limber. I informed him that I would be doing him a diservice by letting him stay at his present rank at that I would also be doing him a diservice by not encouraging him to go to the next level. When I asked what he wanted out of his training he told me nothing. When I asked his goals he had none. I feel like I am piloting a plane with no controls or gauges when dealing with him. I have asked him for the next class to provide me a set of goals he would like to acheive so that I know what I am working with and he said he would think about it and see what he could do.

In the spirit of bushido!

Rob

 

[Franc0]

You've done more than some, and thats plenty. If he comes back to class with the same attitude, I'd advise him to find another school. If he asks why, just tell him you need to concentrate on those that want to improve.

Franco

 

[Jerry]

He also told me once again that [...] he is doing this to stay limber.

When I asked what he wanted out of his training he told me nothing. When I asked his goals he had none.

These two [three] statements are mutually incompatable. His goal is to stay limber, what he wants out of training is to stay limber.

I imagine he also wants some level of tone, etc... but I'm just extrapolating. The point is that from what you are syaing here, the guy does indeed know what he wants (to show up and move around a little), and you don't find that acceptable.

I don't think he has a disservice imposed by not being moved up ranks. I don't know that you would be doing him a favor by making him move up ranks, and I don't see what the problem with him not progressing is.

You raised earlier that he was interfereing negatively with other students. That *is* a problem and one that should be addressed; but I can't imagine why you would feel a need to force someone to share your goal of progressing.

 

[cashwo]

If he's causing a problem that's one thing but why is it a problem if he's just wanting to work out for exercise once a week and is not worried about ranking? I'm not trying to get into any debates or anything but some people don't care about or want a belt. Martial Arts are a great way of exercising and if you are like me I get more out of our gym that a "typical gym". At our gym I've lost 30lbs in 7 months. I spent 3 years in a reagular gym and lost next to nothing. Just wanted to add a different point of view.

 

[arnisador]

I am not throwing him out, I am just telling him that I have nothing to offer him anymore if he does not start to put the effort in. It will be in his court after that.

Makes sense! Hopefully he'll consider it seriously.

 

[Kenpojujitsu3]

If the student just wants to "stay limber" and isn't causing any issues what's the problem? As an instructor you can't "want the belt" for the student that's their job. Also if the student only wants to work what he has and doesn't want anything new right now what's the problem? You'll only be doing a diservice if you keep PUSHING RANK. That's not how the martial arts work. Students need to seek rank at their own pace not have rank pushed upon them in the name of IMPROVEMENT. Improvement doesn't have to coincide with a higher belt. Sounds like you're asking questions and getting answers just not the answers that YOU WANT. Teacher -- "Why do you train here?" student -- "to stay limber". That was your answer. That was his goal. As an instructor you have to understand that each student has their own reason for training and often times that reason isn't the reason you train and it isn't the reason you want. But it's not for YOU to want. The students reason for training is his/her own. An Instructor has to respect that or he/she soon won't have students to teach and thus have no purpose as an instructor. As well wishing as you may be you have to take YOURSELF out of this. You can't have the desire for the students. As an instructor your desire for them to achieve will/must always be higher than their desire to achieve. As an instructor you have to understand that DESIRE is relative to THE STUDENTS GOALS not your idea of what their goals should be.

Respectfully,
James

 

[cashwo]

If the student just wants to "stay limber" and isn't causing any issues what's the problem? As an instructor you can't "want the belt" for the student that's their job. Also if the student only wants to work what he has and doesn't want anything new right now what's the problem? You'll only be doing a diservice if you keep PUSHING RANK. That's not how the martial arts work. Students need to seek rank at their own pace not have rank pushed upon them in the name of IMPROVEMENT. Improvement doesn't have to coincide with a higher belt. Sounds like you're asking questions and getting answers just not the answers that YOU WANT. Teacher -- "Why do you train here?" student -- "to stay limber". That was your answer. That was his goal. As an instructor you have to understand that each student has their own reason for training and often times that reason isn't the reason you train and it isn't the reason you want. But it's not for YOU to want. The students reason for training is his/her own. An Instructor has to respect that or he/she soon won't have students to teach and thus have no purpose as an instructor. As well wishing as you may be you have to take YOURSELF out of this. You can't have the desire for the students. As an instructor your desire for them to achieve will/must always be higher than their desire to achieve. As an instructor you have to understand that DESIRE is relative to THE STUDENTS GOALS not your idea of what their goals should be.

Exactly

 

[Mark Lynn]

I would have to agree with Jerry, Kenpojujitsu3 and others on this one. The problem of him distracting other students is a issue, the problem of him progressing (moving up in rank) isn't.

Maybe the guy can only come one night a week, and during that night he is getting what he paid for, and he feels satisfied. You've done your job as an instructor, he's paid for a service and you have provided that service. We should all be that lucky cause many times we don't get the services paid for in life (that we wanted).

But if he is causing a distraction to the other students find out why and work to correct that. Maybe it is because he isn't progressing and therefore the others get distracted by that. Here's a good lesson to teach the whole dojo that you only progress when you put the time in, and if you don't work out and improve then you don't test. Maybe it's his attitude, pair him up with others who have progressed beyond him in rank but with similar time in the school or system.

However if he is being a distraction by disrupting class, talking out, wimping out on techniques, being lazy as a training partner etc. etc. than that is a different issue as well. It's your class don't let him get away with this type of behaviour.

Respectfully
Mark

 

[chinto01]

Please do not think that I am pushing rank on anyone. I could honestly care less what people wear around their waist. What concerns me is that I see the potential in him and he chooses not to use it. Does it bother me that he does not come to more than one class a week? Not really because I have other students that are motivated to be there that want to learn and have a high energy level when they are there. Another concern is that he is not the most serious student on the mat as I have stated before. I am afraid that his lack of focus is taking away from the other students and that one day he may get someone hurt because he is not focused. I was told a story once about an old sensei who saw that one of his students had progressed to an area in his training that he could not help him with anymore. At that point he recommended another sensei to him that would further his training. If this students only desire is to stay limber should I not recommend him to another program?

In the spirit of bushido!

Rob

 

[cashwo]

If this students only desire is to stay limber should I not recommend him to another program?

I don't think so. It seems like you've talked to him about it already, he told you his answer, and he appears to enjoy what he is doing. You can't ask for more than that. Also, just because he isn't focused on learning the next technique or whatever doesn't mean that he isn't focused. He's just not focused on things that you are focused on or want him to be focused on. I believe you said that this guys 40-50. If that's true I'm gonna guess that he knows what he is looking for out of his MA experience.

 

[arnisador]

Please do not think that I am pushing rank on anyone. I could honestly care less what people wear around their waist. What concerns me is that I see the potential in him and he chooses not to use it.

I understand. As a college teacher, I see the same in my students all the time. But, I've learned that you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink.

Change what you can, accept what you can't, recognize the difference...it's frustrating to "fail" at motivating someone, but it isn't truly your failure. It isn't even his. It's a matter of priorities.

 

[cashwo]

...it's frustrating to "fail" at motivating someone...

Who says that he's failing? The student seems happy and content doing what he wants to do. Some people do not like to enter tournaments and would rather work on meeting the test requirements to get to the next level/rank. Others do not care about rank at all and concentrate on their ability in their art (ex. Boxing, MMA...). Some people like to train just for exercise or to stay limber and that is their motivation.

 

[cashwo]

...but it isn't truly your failure. It isn't even his. It's a matter of priorities.

Re-read the post and saw this and agree 100% with statement.

 

[chinto01]

I understand. As a college teacher, I see the same in my students all the time. But, I've learned that you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink.

Change what you can, accept what you can't, recognize the difference...it's frustrating to "fail" at motivating someone, but it isn't truly your failure. It isn't even his. It's a matter of priorities.

Thanks for the encouraging words. I guess I just have to step back and accept that maybe he is not as interested in his training as others in the class. If he is content with his training I must accept it even if I feel he could do so much more. I just do not want his non-serious attitude to spread through the rest of the class.

In the spirit of bushido!

Rob

 

[Kenpojujitsu3]

Thanks for the encouraging words. I guess I just have to step back and accept that maybe he is not as interested in his training as others in the class. If he is content with his training I must accept it even if I feel he could do so much more. I just do not want his non-serious attitude to spread through the rest of the class.

In the spirit of bushido!

Rob

As an instructor know and take comfort in the fact that YOUR attitude in training will almost always supercede any others. You will always have that one small section of students that don't share your goals and focus. Accept them just the same and keep the ship going.