What to do if people train too hard

[Gerry Seymour]

oooh-kay - not sure how this turned into 4 pages of argueing.

To clarify I am not overly aggressive the issue I have is with newer stronger men. Mr almost arm breaker I have noticed in the past is far too hard and just tries to muscle his way into a submission so I have avoided him in the past, but yesterday it was only me and him left and it felt rude to just walk away. I suppose I could say I was taking a break but I decided to give him a chance. He has been doing it for 6 months and doesn't compete but I doubt anyone has told him he goes too hard. I spoke to one of my male friends and they agreed he goes too hard but they just laughed it off.

In my gym there is not really an supervision or assistance for the newbies in bjj, they just turn up, get bashed up and eventually learn something. I suppose the instructor thinks everyone else can manage themselves but another girl also quit doing bjj because she is little and got tired of getting people fling their entire weight at her to try smash her. I thought I had a better chance then her since I'm tall but my limbs are long and easily twisted, lol.

I disagree with the get stronger/better statement. My first few weeks doing bjj some strong kid grabbed my arm in an arm bar and twisted my hand around, tearing my shoulder muscle - I was in a sling for 2 weeks. When I came back and asked him why he did that he said "I think I learnt it in taekwondo or something". If I had been trying to fight off the arm bar it would have been worse - this was when my arm was quite floppy. Though perhaps your statement didn't mean stronger as in being able to fight off submissions harder, but just getting more skilled. Which in that case I have noticed since I've been doing it for a year and a half I can avoid situations like that, but as I said before, my issue is with the bigger, musclier men who use all their force.

I only cross train bjj, but I've basically stopped because of the lack of control some people have, it becomes too much of a scan of the class to see who I should avoid and who is relatively safe. Too much work.

I think you're on the right track.

As for the 4 pages of arguing, just humor us - none of us clearly has nearly enough to do.

 

[Tez3]

I think you're on the right track.

As for the 4 pages of arguing, just humor us - none of us clearly has nearly enough to do.

Ah the joy of being retired.

 

[jobo]

It's only nonsense if you don't understand it.

i understand it,,,,its biology, you get the same tripe from body builder, thinking that if they bulk up three stone it makes them stronger, it doesn't, three stone of fat doesn't make you stronger, it might make you harder to push over, it can give you extra leverage on some lifts, but not actually stronger

 

[Nev]

I had another situation yesterday - first a guy who I'm better at technically but hes bigger and stronger did his usual move on me which is wrapping his arms around my face until I tap because it feels like my nose is about to break (my friend later told me that is not even a legal move but I don't think this guy knows). Then another guy first arm barred me way too hard and twisted my elbow then neck cranked me really hard so my neck hurts today, I was honestly about to burst into tears and I'm not a crying type. The same guy then injured a smaller guy in an arm bar by going too hard.

I'm going to take a break from it all. It sounds like its a gym of thugs but its not really, it is actually people not realizing they are going too hard because no one tells them.

 

[drop bear]

I had another situation yesterday - first a guy who I'm better at technically but hes bigger and stronger did his usual move on me which is wrapping his arms around my face until I tap because it feels like my nose is about to break (my friend later told me that is not even a legal move but I don't think this guy knows). Then another guy first arm barred me way too hard and twisted my elbow then neck cranked me really hard so my neck hurts today, I was honestly about to burst into tears and I'm not a crying type. The same guy then injured a smaller guy in an arm bar by going too hard.

I'm going to take a break from it all. It sounds like its a gym of thugs but its not really, it is actually people not realizing they are going too hard because no one tells them.

Do you have other clubs around?

Face hugging even nose crushes are legal as far as I know. Just really duchey

 

[jobo]

I had another situation yesterday - first a guy who I'm better at technically but hes bigger and stronger did his usual move on me which is wrapping his arms around my face until I tap because it feels like my nose is about to break (my friend later told me that is not even a legal move but I don't think this guy knows). Then another guy first arm barred me way too hard and twisted my elbow then neck cranked me really hard so my neck hurts today, I was honestly about to burst into tears and I'm not a crying type. The same guy then injured a smaller guy in an arm bar by going too hard.

I'm going to take a break from it all. It sounds like its a gym of thugs but its not really, it is actually people not realizing they are going too hard because no one tells them.

the normal run of things is they do it to the wrong person who then does it back and they get the message, but you could try telling them

 

[Nev]

the normal run of things is they do it to the wrong person who then does it back and they get the message, but you could try telling them

I said why are you being such a bastard and punched him. Probably not the ideal outcome...

 

[Gerry Seymour]

I said why are you being such a bastard and punched him. Probably not the ideal outcome...

Appropriate and inappropriate all at the same time.

 

[Nev]

Do you have other clubs around?

Face hugging even nose crushes are legal as far as I know. Just really duchey

not legal in judo which this was

"Both blood chokes and air chokes (attacking the arteries and attacking the trachea) are legal, but neck cranks are not. In addition, one cannot touch the "mask of the face" of one's opponent, so smothering and many wrestling-style cross-faces are illegal."

I am not sure if this is a neck crank but its one I get a lot from strong guys that really hurts - where they are on top and put their closed hands behind your neck and pull up - usually your neck pops and I think its really dangerous...

 

[drop bear]

not legal in judo which this was

Yeah well you cant even double leg in judo. Sorry I thought you meant the Beej.

 

[jobo]

I said why are you being such a bastard and punched him. Probably not the ideal outcome...

thats quite the,correct thing to do

 

[Nev]

Yeah well you cant even double leg in judo. Sorry I thought you meant the Beej.

I do judo but I crosstrain bjj at the same gym on occassion. I am having these problems in both classes.

 

[SOD-WC]

I do judo but I crosstrain bjj at the same gym on occassion. I am having these problems in both classes.

i feel that ull get seriously hurt if this keeps on going, maybe look for another smaller gym where the instructor can watch over everyone, rather then a toughen up and free for all mode?

 

[Nev]

i feel that ull get seriously hurt if this keeps on going, maybe look for another smaller gym where the instructor can watch over everyone, rather then a toughen up and free for all mode?

yes but judo is not popular and there are not many gyms around...

the one I am in is known for being good. Judo stand up is fine there but we do a lot of groundwork - far more then others gyms I've heard. If I could avoid it would probably be okay.

 

[SOD-WC]

yes but judo is not popular and there are not many gyms around...

the one I am in is known for being good. Judo stand up is fine there but we do a lot of groundwork - far more then others gyms I've heard. If I could avoid it would probably be okay.

seems like u are stuck in a hard place, the fact that there are no good gyms around does not help. Guess you'll have to keep going and constantly scan ur partner and tap out early would be the second best option.

but i got to admit new guys with no control, going all out to prove to the world, are a pain in the butt to deal with. i deal with it by constantly reminding them, they gain nothing by not slowing down and need to use technique.

All the best and dont give up

 

[Headhunter]

I said why are you being such a bastard and punched him. Probably not the ideal outcome...

Tbh you should've been banned for that...you get caught in submissions so you punch someone over it. Like we've already said just tap early you shouldn't be letting your arms get anywhere near breaking

 

[Tez3]

Tbh you should've been banned for that...you get caught in submissions so you punch someone over it. Like we've already said just tap early you shouldn't be letting your arms get anywhere near breaking

Some submissions can be put on so hard and so quickly there's no time to tap before the damage is done, I've seen an arm broken like that as well as soft tissue damage. I had my shoulder hurt like that with a figure four arm bar than was really cranked on so quickly the should was damaged before I could tap, one minute I was grappling the next tremendous pain. It was a few years back and I was still learning the basics so couldn't read the way things were going.

 

[Headhunter]

Some submissions can be put on so hard and so quickly there's no time to tap before the damage is done, I've seen an arm broken like that as well as soft tissue damage. I had my shoulder hurt like that with a figure four arm bar than was really cranked on so quickly the should was damaged before I could tap, one minute I was grappling the next tremendous pain. It was a few years back and I was still learning the basics so couldn't read the way things were going.

Yeah but these are all beginners no beginners going to be able to get a submission that fast

 

[Streetfighter2]

now that I think of it maybe I could be submitting far earlier too but I always feel if I can get out of it why give up

But you obviously can't get out

 

[Tez3]

Yeah but these are all beginners no beginners going to be able to get a submission that fast

Oh they can and do. What I mean by fast is not putting it on so that their opponent can have time to tap but cranking it on hard and fast. Beginners are more likely to put techniques on fast than more experienced people. Take an arm bar, where you have the arm on your hip and are pulling it down, operative word for practice is 'pulling', beginners will often yank it down so the hand is on the floor before their opponent has time to tap, then the damage is done. Often it's done because they don't understand how much it hurts when they do it that fast, they need to have an understanding of how to practice.