What Percentage of People Have Achieved the Rank of Shodan or Equivalent?

[punisher73]

The problem is, the original question was what percentage of people achieve shodan/1st blackbelt. It was pointed out that it is about 1-2% of people who join a martial arts school.

BUT, that question doesn't translate into what it means on what type of opponent you might meet in an altercation. For example, I went to school with guys who went to bowling alleys almost every weekend and picked fights (late 80's early 90's when the cops weren't called for everything in our area). They would go to HS football games and try to pick fights, or house parties. After they turned 18, they would enter the "Toughman Contests" that were popular at the time. They never had ANY "formal training", but were more experienced than most people who study in a martial arts school.

In the midwest, wrestling is very popular. When I was growing up, the programs in our area started in elementary school. The likelihood that you would face someone with wrestling experience was very high in our city.

Also, in regards to TV/Video training. It depends. Former UFC Champion, Evan Tanner (RIP) learned his ground fighting originally from dvds and practicing with his friends. But, I would agree for the most part, it goes no further than LARPing with each other and doesn't translate into real ability.

 

[Rusty B]

BUT, that question doesn't translate into what it means on what type of opponent you might meet in an altercation. For example, I went to school with guys who went to bowling alleys almost every weekend and picked fights (late 80's early 90's when the cops weren't called for everything in our area). They would go to HS football games and try to pick fights, or house parties. After they turned 18, they would enter the "Toughman Contests" that were popular at the time. They never had ANY "formal training", but were more experienced than most people who study in a martial arts school.

In the midwest, wrestling is very popular. When I was growing up, the programs in our area started in elementary school. The likelihood that you would face someone with wrestling experience was very high in our city.

As it relates to @isshinryuronin 's claim, these are things that would've happened a century ago too; not just today.

Also, in regards to TV/Video training. It depends. Former UFC Champion, Evan Tanner (RIP) learned his ground fighting originally from dvds and practicing with his friends. But, I would agree for the most part, it goes no further than LARPing with each other and doesn't translate into real ability.

Here's the thing: there are nuances that you're going to miss, when you're merely watching someone else do something (this can be said of any skill, not just martial arts). And when you throw in fictional movies, you may not even be seeing actual martial arts techniques being used... and some of the actors aren't even martial artists in real life.

 

[dvcochran]

That’s quite an answer to what was a pretty simple question.

And not quite a base of knowledge to pin the previous post from.

 

[Rusty B]

Something else that just occurred to me: even though TV didn't exist a century ago, and the film industry was still in it's infancy (not sure if there are any silent martial arts films out there); weren't local live boxing and wrestling events far more common than they are now? There's no reason to believe that people weren't exposed to seeing trained fighters in action back then.

 

[Flying Crane]

That's because I'm suspicious of the motive behind the question.

Maybe sometimes it’s better to just answer the question and let the other guy reveal his ulterior motives, if they exist at all. Sometimes a question is just a question.

 

[Rusty B]

Maybe sometimes it’s better to just answer the question and let the other guy reveal his ulterior motives, if they exist at all. Sometimes a question is just a question.

I appreciate the advice, but that's not how I'm looking at this.

 

[Flying Crane]

I appreciate the advice, but that's not how I'm looking at this.

Well, sometimes what you bring to the discussion is what you get back.

 

[Rusty B]

Well, sometimes what you bring to the discussion is what you get back.

That's a door that swings both ways.

 

[Flying Crane]

That's a door that swings both ways.

Of course it does. You can only keep your own house clean. Others are responsible for theirs.

 

[dvcochran]

Something else that just occurred to me: even though TV didn't exist a century ago, and the film industry was still in it's infancy (not sure if there are any silent martial arts films out there); weren't local live boxing and wrestling events far more common than they are now? There's no reason to believe that people weren't exposed to seeing trained fighters in action back then.

Likely but the exposure would have been very sparse and limited. Let's say there was a boxing event in New York City, Chicago or Kansas City. And lets say you lived on the outside one of these towns. How would you even know it occurred let alone have the time or means to get there. And even if you could, how often does this 'training' occur? And how would you practice this so called training? Not a wise example IMHO.
You are looking at this from the position of today's ease of instant information.

 

[Rusty B]

Likely but the exposure would have been very sparse and limited. Let's say there was a boxing event in New York City, Chicago or Kansas City. And lets say you lived on the outside one of these towns. How would you even know it occurred let alone have the time or means to get there. And even if you could, how often does this 'training' occur? And how would you practice this so called training? Not a wise example IMHO.
You are looking at this from the position of today's ease of instant information.

I'm suggesting that local live events at lower levels and more common than that. For example, little podunk towns having arenas that are no bigger than that of an elementary school auditorium; wrestling and bare knuckle boxing matches at local bars, and matches when the circus came to town, etc.

 

[wab25]

Lets play the game where I am wrong. (its easy for me, I am quite good at it...)

1. I assume that it is most likely that the common thug I run into has a good amount of martial arts training, enough to make him a better fighter.

2. I assume that it is most likely that the common thug I run into has no martial art training that helps him fight any better.

Remember, this is the game where I am wrong, all the time. So, in the case of the #1 assumption, I train for a trained fighter and when the day comes... I get a common thug who has no training.... because I was wrong.... This is a good day for me and not so much so for him. However, in the case of the #2 assumption, I can relax my training a bit or only do so much training as I assume the guy I fight won't have any such training. Well, since I am wrong again, this time the other guy does have training, that does make him a better fighter. My odds of having a good day now, just went down considerably.

I choose to go with assumption #1. Do I have data to back it up? No. Do I have a logical argument for why #1 is correct? No. I would just rather be wrong in that case rather than in the other. And if I am right, at least I have been doing my best to prepare for it. Hope for the best, plan for the worst. (also, it helps that I enjoy the hard training...)

 

[Rusty B]

Lets play the game where I am wrong. (its easy for me, I am quite good at it...)

1. I assume that it is most likely that the common thug I run into has a good amount of martial arts training, enough to make him a better fighter.

2. I assume that it is most likely that the common thug I run into has no martial art training that helps him fight any better.

Remember, this is the game where I am wrong, all the time. So, in the case of the #1 assumption, I train for a trained fighter and when the day comes... I get a common thug who has no training.... because I was wrong.... This is a good day for me and not so much so for him. However, in the case of the #2 assumption, I can relax my training a bit or only do so much training as I assume the guy I fight won't have any such training. Well, since I am wrong again, this time the other guy does have training, that does make him a better fighter. My odds of having a good day now, just went down considerably.

I choose to go with assumption #1. Do I have data to back it up? No. Do I have a logical argument for why #1 is correct? No. I would just rather be wrong in that case rather than in the other. And if I am right, at least I have been doing my best to prepare for it. Hope for the best, plan for the worst. (also, it helps that I enjoy the hard training...)

At the end of the day, though, it really doesn't matter. Sure, we can say it does while we're talking on MT... but when the fight goes down, you're either able to defend against what the attacker is coming at you with, or you're not.

 

[JP3]

Rusty B, how long have you been training Martial Arts?

Translation, "Rusty B, how old are you?"

Sorry, too easy.

I wanted to ask, in the very interesting nature of these boards, how Did we get onto the current twisted subject?

 

[Rusty B]

Translation, "Rusty B, how old are you?"

Sorry, too easy.

I'd actually have no problem answering that under normal circumstances (I actually did, a year ago), but if Buka was looking to turn this conversation into something about me personally, this is as far as he's getting.

I wanted to ask, in the very interesting nature of these boards, how Did we get onto the current twisted subject?

If you're talking about the current direction this thread has taken... I tried to keep on the original topic, but I guess I could only do that for so long.

 

[KenpoMaster805]

Some white belt will stay as a black belt some will quit some will moved and take same style of Martial Arts some will take a different style of martial arts if they can't fine the same Martial arts that they can't find thats it

 

[Flying Crane]

Translation, "Rusty B, how old are you?"

Sorry, too easy.

I wanted to ask, in the very interesting nature of these boards, how Did we get onto the current twisted subject?

Of course it would be a simple matter to ask @Buka if that is what he was getting at.

 

[Rusty B]

Some white belt will stay as a black belt some will quit some will moved and take same style of Martial Arts some will take a different style of martial arts if they can't fine the same Martial arts that they can't find thats it

I have no idea what you're saying here.

 

[wab25]

I have no idea what you're saying here.

No one can understand what he says. He refuses to use any sort of punctuation at all... and we have asked him multiple times to use it.

you don't even have to use punctuation correctly for it to help with understanding what you are saying as just putting in a mark of some sort can really help identify which words out of the many should be grouped together and sorry I can't put together sentences where the grouping of the words can make it more difficult to understand also understand that this is not directed at you Rusty I am hoping kenpomaster will read this and start to use punctuation in his future posts as it will help a lot for us to be able to understand his set of random words and as punctuation will be going on sale for black friday he could get some for cheap

you don't even have to use punctuation correctly for it to help with understanding what you are saying $ as just putting in a mark of some sort can really help identify which words $ out of the many $ should be grouped together $ and sorry I can't put together sentences $ where the grouping of the words can make it more difficult to understand $ also understand that this is not directed at you Rusty $ I am hoping kenpomaster will read this and start to use punctuation in his future posts $ as it will help a lot for us to be able to understand his set of random words $ and as punctuation will be going on sale for black friday $ he could get some for cheap

 

[Buka]

I'd actually have no problem answering that under normal circumstances (I actually did, a year ago), but if Buka was looking to turn this conversation into something about me personally, this is as far as he's getting.

No, Rusty, not trying to turn the conversation into something about you personally, but that does remind me of a line that screenwriter Mary Donoghue wrote, "But enough about me, let's talk about you. What do you think of me?" I always loved that line.

I actually feel for you, you obviously like Martial Arts or you wouldn't be here. And having trained a year, a pandemic filled year at that, which I'm sure shortened actual training time by at least half, that's horrible for all of us, must be hard when you're first starting out.

The only advice I'd give, and yes, I know you didn't ask for advice, but I feel it might help anyone going forward....you probably know that in real self defense, one of the key proponents is avoiding dangerous situations and conflicts through situational awareness and common sense. The interactions one has online with other people tend to seep into real life if done enough. They create avoidable conflict.

Something we all should keep in mind.

And Happy Thanksgiving, Rusty.