What makes a Master?

[E0richt]

Someone can

- fight.
- teach his/her students how to fight.

These requirements eliminate those who:

- can fight, but doesn't know how to teach.
- knows how to teach but is not a fighter himself/herself.

I don't know about the second.... angelo dundee was not a fighter but could teach / train muhamed Ali.... I think we can find other similar situations.

 

[Buka]

I don't know about the second.... angelo dundee was not a fighter but could teach / train muhamed Ali.... I think we can find other similar situations.

That’s a good point. And I think as a cornerman specifically, Dundee was a true Master. Not just for his cornering skills, but for instinctively knowing when to say little or nothing in the corner between rounds.

Fighters rarely, if ever, listen to their cornermen. We nod like we do, but usually don’t give too much of a damn what they’re saying.

 

[Tony Dismukes]

Fighters rarely, if ever, listen to their cornermen. We nod like we do, but usually don’t give too much of a damn what they’re saying.

I've only been a cornerman 4 times, but that matches my experience.

 

[skribs]

Fighters rarely, if ever, listen to their cornermen. We nod like we do, but usually don’t give too much of a damn what they’re saying.

Huh?

 

[E0richt]

That’s a good point. And I think as a cornerman specifically, Dundee was a true Master. Not just for his cornering skills, but for instinctively knowing when to say little or nothing in the corner between rounds.

Fighters rarely, if ever, listen to their cornermen. We nod like we do, but usually don’t give too much of a damn what they’re saying.

Well lets see... During the first Ali liston matchup Ali wanted to quit because something got in his eyes (I think from listons gloves). Dundee told him no and to stay away til his eyes cleared. Ali listened to him... So not unheard of.

 

[E0richt]

I've only been a cornerman 4 times, but that matches my experience.

Probably why buster Douglas won against tyson... So just curious... How did your fighter do? Is he a name I would recognize?

 

[Tony Dismukes]

Probably why buster Douglas won against tyson... So just curious... How did your fighter do? Is he a name I would recognize?

Probably not. I cornered a friend in his first amateur Muay Thai fight, a student in his first 2 amateur boxing matches, and another friend in a pro MMA fight. You might know him only if you’re familiar with the regional MMA scene in the Kentucky/Ohio/Michigan area. He’s been pretty successful at that level but has never gotten signed with a major promotion like Bellator or the UFC.

 

[skribs]

Probably not. I cornered a friend in his first amateur Muay Thai fight, a student in his first 2 amateur boxing matches, and another friend in a pro MMA fight. You might know him only if you’re familiar with the regional MMA scene in the Kentucky/Ohio/Michigan area. He’s been pretty successful at that level but has never gotten signed with a major promotion like Bellator or the UFC.

"You wouldn't know him, he goes to a different federation."

 

[Tony Dismukes]

"You wouldn't know him, he goes to a different federation."

For anyone who’s curious: Portland Pringle Portland Pringle III MMA Stats, Pictures, News, Videos, Biography - Sherdog.com
I cornered him in his fight with Billy Horne.

 

[Buka]

I've only been a cornerman 4 times, but that matches my experience.

When you’re fighting, you’re glad to sit down for a minute and have a little water. Sometimes, if there’s a couple of cornermen and it’s a hot arena, you kinda feel like they’re sucking up your oxygen.

My best friend since we were thirteen, who was also my first black belt and first cornerman, was the best. He’d take out my mouthpiece, give a little water, cool me with an iced cloth and ask me, “where are we going afterwards, Friar Tucks or Joe Doherty’s place?”
I’d say “Friar Tucks.”

He’d say, “Okay, sounds good. This guy is telegraphing his right hand. Hook him over the top, then slide left and roundhouse him.”

He’d ask about where we were going so I’d actually be listening to him.

I did the same thing when I was cornering. Did it about a dozen times, both in kickboxing and in the Golden Gloves. In the gloves, I was cornering with my boxing coach, who first taught me how to box.

Also cornered a PKA fight with him. It was when Bill Wallace retired, undefeated. This was the quarter finals to crown a new champion.

Unfortunately, our student was fighting Jean Yves Theriault, The Iceman, who was WAY better and one of the best fighters I’ve ever seen. Super nice guy, too.

We took him and his trainers out to dinner the next day. The promoter tried to screw us and not live up to the contract, of “all meals free” for our crew.

The fight was in Detroit. We stayed at the Ponchartrain Hotel. High class place. When we checked in, I asked the hotel manager if our meals were being comped. He looked it up and said they were not. I said, “okay, call us two cabs, we’re leaving. Tell so and so to find a new Main Event.” He quickly got the promoter on the phone and we got what we were promised.

It was me, my trainer, our fighter, and our promoter and his wife. We had three rooms. They stuck Jean Yves and his whole crew in one room. I’d mention the guy who put on the show if I was sure he was still alive. (But I’m not and will not speak ill of the dead.)

The reason the manager listened to me because I was wearing a three piece suit I had bought for the occasion, with a matching cashmere overcoat that I had borrowed from a friend. If I dressed as I normally did, they probably would have made us use the service entrance.

The night before the fight I was eating dinner in the hotel. I was leaving and saw Tommy Hearns at a table. I walked by and said, “Mister Hearns, I don’t mean to be a bother, just wanted to say, I love to watch you work.”

He asked me to join him. What was I going to say, no? Not a chance.
So I ate a second dinner with Tommy Hearns. We talked boxing for two and a half hours. I thought I died and was in heaven.

If our boy had won, it would have been the greatest Martial weekend I ever had.
He didn’t, he got his **** kicked. But it was still a pretty damn good weekend.

 

[Buka]

Probably why buster Douglas won against tyson... So just curious... How did your fighter do? Is he a name I would recognize?

I think the reason Douglas won is because he was fighting to honor his mom and he was in the best shape of his career.

Tyson, on the other hand, was reported to have been banging three hookers at the same time every night leading up to the fight.
He wasn’t taking Douglas seriously. At all.

 

[Simfers]

When you’re fighting, you’re glad to sit down for a minute and have a little water. Sometimes, if there’s a couple of cornermen and it’s a hot arena, you kinda feel like they’re sucking up your oxygen.

My best friend since we were thirteen, who was also my first black belt and first cornerman, was the best. He’d take out my mouthpiece, give a little water, cool me with an iced cloth and ask me, “where are we going afterwards, Friar Tucks or Joe Doherty’s place?”
I’d say “Friar Tucks.”

He’d say, “Okay, sounds good. This guy is telegraphing his right hand. Hook him over the top, then slide left and roundhouse him.”

He’d ask about where we were going so I’d actually be listening to him.

I did the same thing when I was cornering. Did it about a dozen times, both in kickboxing and in the Golden Gloves. In the gloves, I was cornering with my boxing coach, who first taught me how to box.

Also cornered a PKA fight with him. It was when Bill Wallace retired, undefeated. This was the quarter finals to crown a new champion.

Unfortunately, our student was fighting Jean Yves Theriault, The Iceman, who was WAY better and one of the best fighters I’ve ever seen. Super nice guy, too.

We took him and his trainers out to dinner the next day. The promoter tried to screw us and not live up to the contract, of “all meals free” for our crew.

The fight was in Detroit. We stayed at the Ponchartrain Hotel. High class place. When we checked in, I asked the hotel manager if our meals were being comped. He looked it up and said they were not. I said, “okay, call us two cabs, we’re leaving. Tell so and so to find a new Main Event.” He quickly got the promoter on the phone and we got what we were promised.

It was me, my trainer, our fighter, and our promoter and his wife. We had three rooms. They stuck Jean Yves and his whole crew in one room. I’d mention the guy who put on the show if I was sure he was still alive. (But I’m not and will not speak ill of the dead.)

The reason the manager listened to me because I was wearing a three piece suit I had bought for the occasion, with a matching cashmere overcoat that I had borrowed from a friend. If I dressed as I normally did, they probably would have made us use the service entrance.

The night before the fight I was eating dinner in the hotel. I was leaving and saw Tommy Hearns at a table. I walked by and said, “Mister Hearns, I don’t mean to be a bother, just wanted to say, I love to watch you work.”

He asked me to join him. What was I going to say, no? Not a chance.
So I ate a second dinner with Tommy Hearns. We talked boxing for two and a half hours. I thought I died and was in heaven.

If our boy had won, it would have been the greatest Martial weekend I ever had.
He didn’t, he got his **** kicked. But it was still a pretty damn good weekend.

Jean-Yves Thériault used to teach kickboxing at the school I went to before the pandemic. Class act all the way, incredibly humble. I was there when he received his black belt in Can-Ryu Jiu-Jitsu in front of the whole crowd at Capital Conquest, in 2007 (pretty sure it was 2007, I was still a white belt back then), he looked desperate to get the attention off of him, LOL

 

[Buka]

Jean-Yves Thériault used to teach kickboxing at the school I went to before the pandemic. Class act all the way, incredibly humble. I was there when he received his black belt in Can-Ryu Jiu-Jitsu in front of the whole crowd at Capital Conquest, in 2007 (pretty sure it was 2007, I was still a white belt back then), he looked desperate to get the attention off of him, LOL

Class act and humble all the way. Someone to look up to.

 

[HighKick]

Huh?

I have always said listening to the cornerman and doing what they said was always two different things. Especially against a good opponent who is very good at the counter game.