Here is nice little expose
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What is the problem with Kukkiwon?
- Thread starter NPTKD
- Start date
Ahhh....how did I know that? One of my instructors, Carlos Bunda is one of Johnnys' BB, his younger brother Doug Bunda whom I train under was also a student of Johnnys'. Carlos made him watch classes for months before he let him join. GM Doug also received a BB from James Ibrao.
Carlos was also Rick Kingis' instructor and promoted him to BB.
Haha...did you know that?
Did you also know that my dad in .... I think it '67 was the first one up against Chuck Norris and got DQ'ed for busting him up. Then Carlos beat Chuck and broke his cup in the process. That's when Chuck went and trained with his hands.
Ahhh....how did I know that? One of my instructors, Carlos Bunda is one of Johnnys' BB, his younger brother Doug Bunda whom I train under was also a student of Johnnys'. Carlos made him watch classes for months before he let him join. GM Doug also received a BB from James Ibrao.
Carlos was also Rick Kingis' instructor and promoted him to BB.
Haha...did you know that?
Did you also know that my dad in .... I think it '67 was the first one up against Chuck Norris and got DQ'ed for busting him up. Then Carlos beat Chuck and broke his cup in the process. That's when Chuck went and trained with his hands.
Yes I knew that well not about your father but the other.
Twin Fist
Grandmaster
I knew Rick Kingi was one of the Bundas BB's
I didnt know your dad smacked Norris around...good stuff.
Funny thing is, with all the back issues of Black Belt available for reading now, looking back at the tourny results from the 60's, seeing a LOT of famous names from Kaju listed as BOTH fighters and winners in FORMS.
thats something that you just dont see these days.
Same thing with Chuck Norris, no one remembers him as a forms guy, but he almost always did forms too, and won a LOT.
I didnt know your dad smacked Norris around...good stuff.
Funny thing is, with all the back issues of Black Belt available for reading now, looking back at the tourny results from the 60's, seeing a LOT of famous names from Kaju listed as BOTH fighters and winners in FORMS.
thats something that you just dont see these days.
Same thing with Chuck Norris, no one remembers him as a forms guy, but he almost always did forms too, and won a LOT.
miguksaram
Master of Arts
Depends on where you look. If you are talking about sport karate tournaments, where Chuck and them came from, then you can see plenty of them. Ross Levine, Jarret Leikert, Craig Henningsen, Donald Mills, Jason Tankson-Bourley, Arlene Limas, Sammy Vazquez, Chris Brewster, Matt Mullins, Chris Huberts....I can go on and on. What happens after awhile is they begin to choose what the enjoy most and focus on that.
AmericanTangSooDo
Yellow Belt
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John Natividad was never a TKD stylist, he's a Tang Soo Do practitioner. He received his black belt under Chuck Norris and was a member of his legendary fighting team back in the early 1970s.
By the way another member of that five person team that Ed Parker took around the world was Darnell Garcia, another Norris black belt.
No disrespect intended, but is there a point to this?
We have more threads on the subject of the Kukkiwon's woes than I care to enumerate and posts along these lines (complaining about why people complain about fill-in-the-blank org) tend to just bring out more those very complaints, some of which are legitimate, others of which are just griping for the sake of griping.
Also, regarding your observation about people who say that you are not a 'true' TKD practitioner without a KKW cert, these are generally not the ones complaining vociferously about the Kukkiwon.
Lastly, no, the WTF itself does not teach anything, as you stated. Kukkiwon schools that practice WTF sparring (pretty much all of them), however do teach sparring under the WTF rule set, which is what Twin Fist refers to as the WTF teaching 'crap karate' in both this and other threads. While his statement may not have been technically accurate (the WTF is not a teaching body), the Kukkiwon schools are affiliated with it and do teach that style of sparring predominantly. Not to mention that the WTF only recognizes KKW ranks.
Daniel
NPTKD it is simple those that don't want and those that do relize it is really nothing more than a piece of paper. It is the nature of the beast to complain about anything and everything.
Not to be a nitpicker, but the way an organization is run essentially defines it.
Well, as you said in your last post, the Kukkiwon is just a certification entity. They establish a curriculum of sorts and their agents (4th dan and higher KKW school owners) sign off on the quality of the testee. Since the school owners are essentially the Kukkiwon's testing agents, I do believe that it is not entirely accurate to say that the Kukkiwon never sees the candidate applying for rank.
The only real issue that I have with this is that it opens the door for potential (and actual) abuse on the part of school owners. On the other hand, accusations that the Kukkiwon is too controlling or too hands on are pretty much baseless as a result of this structure. I think that most people who make that accusation are not and likely have never been Kukkiwon members and are surmising.
Daniel
Daniel I will try and not open a whole can of worms here but lets just say this the KKW is a meer image of what it was suppose to be when the early founder envision it. The fact is I have seen the abuse first hand over the year people not getting there certificates or certain Masters charging an arm and a leg. Iknow this is not the KKW doing it but it is the people that hold that 4th Dan or higher so in essense they are totally responsible for there BB and what they do.
No can of worms opened in my opinion. I think even the most ardent supporters of the Kukkiwon are aware of this. The major issue seems to be corruption and abuse. The sports direction is, well, it is what it is. Either you like it or you do not. Frankly, I do not, but the KKW does not require its member schools to 'go olympic' so no harm no foul there.
Absolutely. This is, unfortunately, a large part of the corruption issue that I mentioned above. The (geographically) Korean organization is not hands on enough in my opinion, and could curtail this nonsense if those at the main offices chose to take a stronger stance.
Daniel
Looks like American TSD did the digging, lol. Didn't see the date on the OP. Looks like I missed this one the first time around.
Haven't seen T/F on in days, so here I thought he was posting again.
Daniel
NPTKD,
It was too late to edit, but I did not realize that this was a necro-ed thread. Please disregard my question and comments about whether or not there is a point to this thread, as at the time when you posted it, KKW critique was going pretty strong. Once I realized that it was an old thread (Thanks to Djinx), the point made sense.
My bad.
Daniel
Miles
Senior Master
Was NPTKD banned? Haven't seen him post in a long time....
Good question. TF seems to have dropped off lately as well.
Daniel
Daniel
dancingalone
Grandmaster
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Yep. I even saw that he had re-registered a few times under different names and Bob banned them all.
