What is "the entire system" ?

[Carol]

I've read a few posts from BBs here that said their 1st BB test meant going through "everything", meaning X techs, Y forms, Z sets (forgive me for not remembering the actual numbers.)

On another forum I read a post from a fellow that's a (I think)3rd black and mentioning that he's finally opening up a school. His description sounded like the building where he will be teaching has had some big problems and delayed the schools opening more than once.

The poster seemed to have a great attitude about it, saying that the time delay gave him a chance to spend more time with his own instructor. He commented that he was getting closer to learning "the entire system."

That made me curious. How does your school define it's "entire system" ?

 

[nlkenpo]

In the school of my instructor my test for black 1st consisted of all 154 base techniques, forms from short 1 up to form 4, all the sets numbers 1 and 2 and a selection of basics to be demonstrated and explained.

I guess the entire system to me would mean the following:
- 154 base techniques
- 96 technique extensions
- forms short 1, 2 and 3
- forms long 1 to 8
- all sets, numbers 1 and 2
- basics

I know there are the freestyle techniques as well, but I don't do that much with those.

I train all of the items mentioned, but can't get myself to actually remember all the extensions by name. Whenever I want to work extensions I re-read the ones I want to work with, or watch them on DVD, then go and do my thing with them. After doing this for quite some years now, I tend to remember more of them everytime, but still not everything.

Furthermore, although not part of the written material that form "the system" as I look at it, there's the other half, where you learn to actually use the system. I spend most of my training time nowadays working that half to gain instand spontaneous reactions.

I hop this helps,

Marcel

 

[bushidomartialarts]

we purposely don't teach the 'entire system'.

we use the 16 tech presentations, but don't do extensions.
we use all the parker katas, but add two katas from tracy, one from tang soo do and a few weapons forms.
we don't do the freestyle stuff as part of curriculum, but will use them as drills.
we don't do the sets.

 

[ChadWarner]

I've read a few posts from BBs here that said their 1st BB test meant going through "everything", meaning X techs, Y forms, Z sets (forgive me for not remembering the actual numbers.)

On another forum I read a post from a fellow that's a (I think)3rd black and mentioning that he's finally opening up a school. His description sounded like the building where he will be teaching has had some big problems and delayed the schools opening more than once.

The poster seemed to have a great attitude about it, saying that the time delay gave him a chance to spend more time with his own instructor. He commented that he was getting closer to learning "the entire system."

That made me curious. How does your school define it's "entire system" ?

At least half of everyones entire system is not really in the written lesson plan or whatnot. It just depends on if the school is the real thing or just a money making business. Most Instructors archive their material on dvd, tape or something of this nature and really no one puts their best material out on the net for everyone to see. This would just not be a wise thing to do. Some things are specifically for those who have earned the knowledge and who have the basics to understand the higher priniciples of a particular instructors interpretation of the system.

 

[Blindside]

I've read a few posts from BBs here that said their 1st BB test meant going through "everything", meaning X techs, Y forms, Z sets (forgive me for not remembering the actual numbers.)

On another forum I read a post from a fellow that's a (I think)3rd black and mentioning that he's finally opening up a school. His description sounded like the building where he will be teaching has had some big problems and delayed the schools opening more than once.

The poster seemed to have a great attitude about it, saying that the time delay gave him a chance to spend more time with his own instructor. He commented that he was getting closer to learning "the entire system."

That made me curious. How does your school define it's "entire system" ?

Most people don't have the "entire system" by first black. They may have been tested on "everything," meaning they had to go through every tech, form, set, etc that they knew, but that doesn't mean they know the entire system. In addition, as Mr. Warner said, the set curricullums may not encompass all of an instructors teaching.

Our school has different forms, sets, and techs through third black.

Lamont

 

[teej]

There are so many out there now doing there own thing that 1st degree black belt kenpo requirements vary from instructor to instructor or from association to association. [keep in mind that kenpo is about body mechanics, not about the number of techniques or forms one knows]

Years ago requirements of EP 1st degree black belt were star block, kicking set, co-ordination set, finger set, 154 techniques, shrt forms 1-2-3 and long forms 1-2-3 and form 4, staff set and 2 man set plus all of the required basics. [i may have left some out as I am in a hurry]

Again depending on instructor things may very, but after 1st degree you would be required to start learning the extensions to the techniques and form 5 [take down form] for 2nd degree blk then form 6 [weapons form] for 3rd degree. 3rd degree black in EP American Kenpo is our FULL instructor rank.

Now individuals are making up and adding sets and forms etc. to their curriculum. Some are adding seperate MMA classes or courses as extra stuff and some have worked it into the curriculum making it part of their schools or organizations requirements.

Some instructors work with escrima material as extra material while others have actually worked it into their requirements.

So today in age, it depends on where you train, who your instructor is, or what organization you belong to as to what your black belt and beyond requirements are.

Teej

 

[kenpostudent]

I'm a big believer in leaving the system the way Ed Parker outlined in Infinite Insights. Adding to that curriculum is not a problem. I don't like when people delete from that standard, however. Parker defined the minimum requirements for AK. Now, I certainly believe that kenpo is not without its gaps...groundfighting being the major deficiency.

While I applaud efforts to add groundfighting to the system, all attempts to date have fallen short of my standards of effectiveness. I honestly believe that the only way to gain real world groundfighting proficiency is to spend a year or more in an art designed for groundfighting.

I must confess that I lack the experience with FMA and the rank to fully understand kenpo weapon techniques; therefore, I'm remiss to comment on the kenpo weapons curriculum. I will say that the criticisms that I have heard echoed most loudly usually reflect a profound misunderstanding of the attack and catalyst of the technique combined with a pathological need to over strategize every aspect of a fight.

I think the "entire system" is more than the codified 156 techniques, extensions, forms, sets and sparring drills. The "entire system" is the byproduct of training the curriculum. The proficiency of motion that becomes innate sometime around 5th or 6th black (or at least should become synthesized with one's natural patterns of motion) is the body and meat of the system.