What is a better self defense weapon knife or baton?

[Danny T]

If the area is safe, why are you tooling up?

It being 'a hobby' is a really poor reason by the way, it's honestly coming across as extreme paranoia.



I like one part of this analogy - I've met loads of people who were utterly incapable of swapping out their spare if they got a flat

Also, I've put more effort into comparing the options I have for a spare tyre than I ever have thinking about carrying a weapon...

While "it's better to look at it than look for it" is a valid idea, there's also a likelihood of need continuum.

I carry a spare tyre in my car because there's a fair chance I'll need it one day - I've had to use the facility maybe 10 times since I started driving. On a pushbike I carry puncture repair stuff, again because there's a fair chance I'll need it (much more often than the car spare).

Compare that to what weapons I've carried for SD purposes - none.

How many times in the last 43 years I've needed a weapon for SD purposes - none.

I have enough to carry already (key and wallet, sometimes) without adding hardware I'll likely never need...

I also have fire extinguishers in my vehicles, in my home, and in my business. In my 64 years of life I have never had to use one to put out a fire other than in training. I have used a firearm and though I did not use one for self defense I have restrained and removed a knife from someone during a church service once. I don't train and carry hoping to use them. I train and carry because there are others who have bad intentions out there.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Same here, though I've always figured that the one time I was ever in a pinch and really needed to use a weapon to aid me in an SD situation, I'd have course set it down at the other end of the couch... or put it in my proverbial backpack because it was in my way or something. Murphy's Law.

Yeah, as many places as I go where I can't have most weapons (courthouse, airplanes, etc.), I figure if I ever get attacked, it'll be one of those places. Or on the crapper.

 

[jaime_lion]

Yeah, as many places as I go where I can't have most weapons (courthouse, airplanes, etc.), I figure if I ever get attacked, it'll be one of those places. Or on the crapper.

The toilet is supper easy. Just grab the stuff going in there. I mean who would want to fight a person with poopy on their hands?

 

[drop bear]

Self defense tools should be well trained however, when in actual carry it's more like having a spare tire.
'You hope you'll never need to use it, but if you do it's there.'
Most all of us have a good spare tire; how much effort do you spend showing off or comparing your spare tire to others?

And have fifty spare tires in the basement to fight a corrupt government.

 

[drop bear]

How I hide my baton.

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How I hide my knife. And Ok I lied it is a glock knife with a 6.5in blade.

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You couldn't just throw a chair at a guy or something. Save a bit of hassle?

 

[pdg]

I also have fire extinguishers in my vehicles, in my home, and in my business. In my 64 years of life I have never had to use one to put out a fire other than in training. I have used a firearm and though I did not use one for self defense I have restrained and removed a knife from someone during a church service once. I don't train and carry hoping to use them. I train and carry because there are others who have bad intentions out there.

That goes back to the balance of probability thing though.

I have had to use a fire extinguisher a few times, as well as other 'emergency' training - but it's been to assist others rather than myself.

The people with bad intentions, they'll have whatever you might have, plus one level (usually, from a made up statistic).

I.e. if 'normal' people are allowed to carry guns and knives, the bad guys will surely have them too.

Around here, 'normal' people don't carry weapons...

There was a report on the radio the other day of a "dangerous weapon incident" handled by the police not far from me - nobody was hurt but there was an altercation and one party had a stick.

So, those are the bad guys I'm most likely going to ever have to deal with.

 

[pdg]

There was a report on the radio the other day of a "dangerous weapon incident" handled by the police not far from me - nobody was hurt but there was an altercation and one party had a stick

Obviously the report I heard got updated - turns out the stick was made of metal...

Man 'armed' with metal pole arrested in Salisbury

So yeah, a bit of a scuffle where nobody was hurt was deemed bad and unusual enough to make the local news headlines...

 

[frank raud]

How have you seen brass knuckles work? From what I have seen you do short little jabs with them not full on punches. Not saying they dont work but if lets say I punch correctly with good body mechanics and my punch is an 8 out of 10 but with brass knuckles I can punch a 10 out of 10. There is not enough of a difference for me to carry them.


That's one way to use brass knuckles, and not the most efficient.

A slapjack is essentially a short club so why not carry a longer club and have more range and more power?

Having been hit (lightly) with both blackjack/sap and baton/club, if I had a choice I'd take being hit by a baton

 

[jaime_lion]

That's one way to use brass knuckles, and not the most efficient.

A slapjack is essentially a short club so why not carry a longer club and have more range and more power?

Having been hit (lightly) with both blackjack/sap and baton/club, if I had a choice I'd take being hit by a baton

I believe you made a mistake in how you posted your reply so I moved your response out of the quote box. I have bolded your response.

Also I am pretty sure you are wrong with how you hit with brass knuckles. If you punch normally you are in danger of breaking your fingers. I have hit myself with both and the baton worked way better. Not quite sure how you were hit.

 

[frank raud]

That's one way to use brass knuckles, and not the most efficient.

A slapjack is essentially a short club so why not carry a longer club and have more range and more power?

Having been hit (lightly) with both blackjack/sap and baton/club, if I had a choice I'd take being hit by a baton

I believe you made a mistake in how you posted your reply so I moved your response out of the quote box. I have bolded your response.

Also I am pretty sure you are wrong with how you hit with brass knuckles. If you punch normally you are in danger of breaking your fingers. I have hit myself with both and the baton worked way better. Not quite sure how you were hit.

Interesting. I say that jabbing with brass knuckles is not the most efficient way to use them. Your response is I'm wrong, that if you punch normally ( like a jab?), you can hurt yourself. I was taught how to use them by David Grant, author of two books on brass knuckles. I also did not say how to use them. But you assume I'm wrong.

How did I get hit with a sap and a baton? From someone else using it in training, not by hitting myself.

 

[jaime_lion]

Interesting. I say that jabbing with brass knuckles is not the most efficient way to use them. Your response is I'm wrong, that if you punch normally ( like a jab?), you can hurt yourself. I was taught how to use them by David Grant, author of two books on brass knuckles. I also did not say how to use them. But you assume I'm wrong.

How did I get hit with a sap and a baton? From someone else using it in training, not by hitting myself.

How were you taught to use them?

Here is a video on how I was showen how to use them. I have seen numerous people say this is the correct way.

 

[Flying Crane]

Jeezuz. You need a video to teach you how to use brass knuckles?

 

[isshinryuronin]

So yes I know the best self defense is avoiding fighting and such. But I am wondering specifically on these two weapons what is better for self defense a fixed blade knife with a 7 inch blade or a 2 foot baton?

Getting back to the basic question - knife or stick. A 7 inch fixed blade is a formidable weapon and one I personally would run away from if possible. But look at the total picture considering various factors:

1. long range - 24+inch stick superior
2. med range - stick slightly superior
3. short range - knife superior
4. ease of carry concealed - knife superior
5. legality of concealed carry - stick superior in most states
6. risk in losing weapon to unskilled opponent - stick superior (less risk having it kill you)
7. flexibility in lethality of use - stick superior (difficult to gently stab someone or just restrain with knife)
8. if unarmed - stick superior (better chance of finding stick or stick-like object on the ground than a knife)
9. skill adaptable to other objects - stick superior (pipes, chains, crowbars, branches, etc.)
10. intimidation factor - knife superior (especially the 7 inch variety)

I think #7 is perhaps the most important, overall from a self-defense aspect - the stick can be applied to a wider range of situations than a knife, offering more options on the force spectrum. By its very lethal nature, a knife's responsible use is limited to only the most extreme situations. Of course the user's training, willingness to inflict deadly force, and situation all come into play. But considering all the above, I vote for being trained in, and having, a kali/escrima stick (but a small knife hidden away would be nice, too)

 

[jaime_lion]

Getting back to the basic question - knife or stick. A 7 inch fixed blade is a formidable weapon and one I personally would run away from if possible. But look at the total picture considering various factors:

1. long range - 24+inch stick superior
2. med range - stick slightly superior
3. short range - knife superior
4. ease of carry concealed - knife superior
5. legality of concealed carry - stick superior in most states
6. risk in losing weapon to unskilled opponent - stick superior (less risk having it kill you)
7. flexibility in lethality of use - stick superior (difficult to gently stab someone or just restrain with knife)
8. if unarmed - stick superior (better chance of finding stick or stick-like object on the ground than a knife)
9. skill adaptable to other objects - stick superior (pipes, chains, crowbars, branches, etc.)
10. intimidation factor - knife superior (especially the 7 inch variety)

I think #7 is perhaps the most important, overall from a self-defense aspect - the stick can be applied to a wider range of situations than a knife, offering more options on the force spectrum. By its very lethal nature, a knife's responsible use is limited to only the most extreme situations. Of course the user's training, willingness to inflict deadly force, and situation all come into play. But considering all the above, I vote for being trained in, and having, a kali/escrima stick (but a small knife hidden away would be nice, too)

How heavy of a kail escrima stick? As I am sure you have seen the dog brothers fight with them and most of them come out ok. Escrima sticks made of rattan are too lite to actually be good for a weapon.

I am assuming you have tested knife vs stick in the actual ways they would be used and not in a dueling fashion? When I have done this knife won out against stick most times.

This idea of a non-lethal self defense is noble. But I dont get it. If a person is trying to rape another person or harm them that is where lethal force comes into play and less lethal goes out. The only possible less lethal I could see is pepper spray or possibly a taser. But since my question is about a knife or stick we can discuss those later.

 

[JR 137]

How heavy of a kail escrima stick? As I am sure you have seen the dog brothers fight with them and most of them come out ok. Escrima sticks made of rattan are too lite to actually be good for a weapon.

I am assuming you have tested knife vs stick in the actual ways they would be used and not in a dueling fashion? When I have done this knife won out against stick most times.

This idea of a non-lethal self defense is noble. But I dont get it. If a person is trying to rape another person or harm them that is where lethal force comes into play and less lethal goes out. The only possible less lethal I could see is pepper spray or possibly a taser. But since my question is about a knife or stick we can discuss those later.

Not every SD situation is life or death; you don’t have to kill everyone that attacks you. I’ve been in plenty of fights (not all “meet me outside” fights) that I couldn’t get out of without fighting. None of them were life and death.

Edit: one potentially was, as he was drawing his gun. A knife wouldn’t have done anything but slow me down and give him enough time to do what he was trying to do. And I’m pretty sure I didn’t kill him.

 

[Buka]

I'm with JR. ^^^

Life or death fights usually involve warfare or serious crime. I suppose it could be said that you have to be prepared for everything, but only a very small percentage of fights fit this category.

Far more worrisome to me is striking or throwing someone out of necessity and them hitting their head when they go down. That frightens the hell out of me, Jackface Turkeys that decide they want to scrap do not.

 

[jaime_lion]

Not every SD situation is life or death; you don’t have to kill everyone that attacks you. I’ve been in plenty of fights (not all “meet me outside” fights) that I couldn’t get out of without fighting. None of them were life and death.

Edit: one potentially was, as he was drawing his gun. A knife wouldn’t have done anything but slow me down and give him enough time to do what he was trying to do. And I’m pretty sure I didn’t kill him.

So your telling me if a person starts attacking you because they think by attacking you it will solve there problems and such. You would rather use a stick? I guess can you explain how you think this would go down?

If I use a knife I dont have to kill someone I can cut an arm and escape or such.

 

[JR 137]

So your telling me if a person starts attacking you because they think by attacking you it will solve there problems and such. You would rather use a stick? I guess can you explain how you think this would go down?

If I use a knife I dont have to kill someone I can cut an arm and escape or such.

I didn’t say I preferred anything. I was addressing the last paragraph I quoted; to me it sounded like you were saying every SD situation is life and death.

Would I prefer to use a stick over a knife or vice-versa? Too many what ifs. Furthermore I carry neither, so there’s not much left for me to discuss. I don’t carry anything with the conscious inclination to use it as a weapon. I don’t feel the need.

 

[Flying Crane]

If I use a knife I dont have to kill someone I can cut an arm and escape or such.

 

[geezer]

I've said this before on other threads. A knife is a better offensive weapon than defensive. And if you ever have to explain using it to the authorities, or a jury, most likely that's what they'd think. Honestly, where I live, you'd be better off just carrying a gun. Open or concealed, no license required. As for me, I'll take a stick ...a couple of feet of good hard hickory. Or at my age, maybe a cane, ...or nothing at all.