What if Wing Chun remained a concept...

[JowGaWolf]

You are looking at very poor examples. But I guess that's a good thing if my opponent knows what MA I train and makes these assumptions about how I might fight them.

To be honest. I don't have to know what MA that you take in order fight you. None of that is relevant. I can pretty much tell what system you may fight with just by looking at how you stand. Kickers tend to stand a certain way, grapplers tend to stand a certain way, and strikers tend to stand a certain way. It's not just the stance alone but the movement in while in that stance. Things like feet forward, feet pointed to the side, the positioning of the feet all help to give me some idea of what you like to do. A person can lie to me about what system they fight in, but their stance and footwork will tell on them every time.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

to neutralize that we are taught to attack the weak point, in this instance the elbow. Are your elbows bent or straight when doing this?

Both elbows are straight. The beauty of this strategy is when your opponent tries to attack your elbow, he will expose his head for your attack.

When your opponent attacks your elbow, it also gives you a chance to wrap his arm, and ...

 

[Nobody Important]

Both elbows are straight. The beauty of this strategy is when your opponent tries to attack your elbow, he will expose his head for your attack.

When your opponent attacks your elbow, it also gives you a chance to wrap his arm, and ...

I can see how it would be effective on the inside, but am not sold if the attack is coming from the flank. I can see where attacking the elbow while striking the head from the outside could neutralize it. That being said, on the inside it gives you the opponents centerline and is very effective. Thank you.

 

[geezer]

John, I actually like the application of the "Rhino" by your student Keegan better than the way you demonstrated it. Your demo looked like a drill. Useful practice, but dangerous in application if your opponent grabs your extended hands and sidesteps, punching from an angle. The version in the 'Keegan" clip uses the "rhino" technique just once to edge inside to execute the throw. He didn't give the other guy any chance to adapt and counter. Nice clip!

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

Your demo looked like a drill.

Any technique X can be developed in different stages.

1. use X in offense only.
2. use X in defense only.
2. use X in both offense and defense.
3. ...

 

[JowGaWolf]

John, I actually like the application of the "Rhino" by your student Keegan better than the way you demonstrated it. Your demo looked like a drill. Useful practice, but dangerous in application if your opponent grabs your extended hands and sidesteps, punching from an angle. The version in the 'Keegan" clip uses the "rhino" technique just once to edge inside to execute the throw. He didn't give the other guy any chance to adapt and counter. Nice clip!

I don't understand the technique . Everytime i see it want to kick the person and take angles. It seems like an over committed technique.

 

[Nobody Important]

I don't understand the technique . Everytime i see it want to kick the person and take angles. It seems like an over committed technique.

To me it appears as a wedge movement, suited for grappling more so than boxing. With modification I can see it being utilized for boxing specifically. But I don't believe it's his intention. I think it is more a defensive cover technique for heavy pressure meant to be used to get inside quickly and wrap as in the second video. Kinda reminds me of Muay Thai kiep and Wing Chun double neck detaining hands. Of course those are applied after entering and not before.

 

[LFJ]

Show me a video of what you think is a good example of Wing Chun.

No. I like you keeping the assumptions you have now.

To be honest. I don't have to know what MA that you take in order fight you. None of that is relevant. I can pretty much tell what system you may fight with just by looking at how you stand. Kickers tend to stand a certain way, grapplers tend to stand a certain way, and strikers tend to stand a certain way. It's not just the stance alone but the movement in while in that stance. Things like feet forward, feet pointed to the side, the positioning of the feet all help to give me some idea of what you like to do. A person can lie to me about what system they fight in, but their stance and footwork will tell on them every time.

You think you can tell by the way I stand that there's an "80% chance" I'm unaware of my feet and will have limited mobility, and that I intend to control your arms and run in with chain punches?

Even if you knew what MA I do that would all be false, and I don't stand in a typical WC robot guard.

 

[JowGaWolf]

No. I like you keeping the assumptions you have now.

Here's another assumption for you. You won't show a video that shows a good example of Wing Chun because you don't want me to point out point out the very things that I put in my statement.

You think you can tell by the way I stand that there's an "80% chance" I'm unaware of my feet and will have limited mobility, and that I intend to control your arms and run in with chain punches?

Every system has stance requirements. Boxer stand one way, Grapplers stand another. Along with the stances are movements that are best suited for the stance and the technique to be used. Boxers move one way and Grapplers move a different way.
Can I tell if you are unaware of your feet? Most definitely as that's the easiest thing to pick out in a person.
Can I tell if you will have limited mobility? Yes I can and not only that I can tell how far you can retreat and which directions you'll be less mobile in based on the stance that you take.
Can I tell that you intend to control your arms? Yes. Most WC practitioners tend to make no effort to hide that they are WC. Their stance is such that it allows them to do WC movement and WC technique. This is especially true for any WC practitioners who have a purist mindset. WC stance and movement is unique in comparison to other fighting systems and WC practitioners are proud of that and don't mind having the body position that screams "I am Wing Chun." For those who aren't purist, the practitioners may have a different stance that resembles more of wider fighting stance. In those cases the stances will still show traces of WC. For example, this guy's stance still has traces of Wing Chun.

Same with this guy

Even if you knew what MA I do that would all be false

To be honest I don't pay attention to people when they tell me what fighting system they do. People tend to lie from their mouth and not their stance.

 

[LFJ]

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

Your demo looked like a drill.

To me it appears as a wedge movement, suited for grappling more so than boxing. With modification I can see it being utilized for boxing specifically. But I don't believe it's his intention. I think it is more a defensive cover technique for heavy pressure meant to be used to get inside quickly and wrap as in the second video. Kinda reminds me of Muay Thai kiep and Wing Chun double neck detaining hands. Of course those are applied after entering and not before.

When I was 4 years old, my cousin was in the army. He taught me a technique that when your opponent uses both hands to choke on your throat,

- you hold both hands into a "big fist",
- move that "big fist" straight up between your opponent's arms as a "wedge",
- break that choke hold,
- grab your opponent's head, and
- smash your knee into it.

That was the 1st MA technique that I had learned in my life.

So the "rhino guard - big fist" functions well to "separate your opponent's arms away from his body". It also give you a good head protection when you do that.

You are also right. It's designed for a wrestler who doesn't have much boxing skill but need to deal with a boxer in MMA game. If that wrestler can get into a clinch (such as head lock, or double over hooks) after his boxer opponent's 1st, or 2nd punch, the striking game will stop and the grappling game will start.

 

[guy b.]

Most WC practitioners tend to make no effort to hide that they are WC. Their stance is such that it allows them to do WC movement and WC technique. This is especially true for any WC practitioners who have a purist mindset. WC stance and movement is unique in comparison to other fighting systems and WC practitioners are proud of that and don't mind having the body position that screams "I am Wing Chun.

Postings show you have no clue how VT functions and are not open to hearing it when offered. Is the jow ga forum a bit quiet?

 

[JowGaWolf]

Postings show you have no clue how VT functions and are not open to hearing it when offered. Is the jow ga forum a bit quiet?

I don't know why you think I'm not open to hearing it when it's offered especially when my posting says this:

Show me a video of what you think is a good example of Wing Chun.

I have yet to see someone post a video to show that what I say is so wrong and off base.

All you have to do is show me a video that you think is a good example of Wing Chun.

 

[geezer]

....Most WC practitioners tend to make no effort to hide that they are WC. Their stance is such that it allows them to do WC movement and WC technique. This is especially true for any WC practitioners who have a purist mindset.

OMG, You said that?!?

...Well OK, that's pretty much my experience too. Not sure why this has Guy riled up.

 

[JowGaWolf]

OMG, You said that?!?

...Well OK, that's pretty much my experience too. Not sure why this has Guy riled up.

Yep and I'm still waiting on LFJ and now Guy, to show me a video example of what they think is good Wing Chun. If they can't find one then maybe they can record themselves doing good Wing Chun.

 

[LFJ]

I already said no, I like you keeping the assumptions you have now. I don't care if you think all Wing Chun sucks.

 

[geezer]

I don't care if you think all Wing Chun sucks.

Yeah. It's terrible the things that darn Jow Ga guy says, like how all Wing Chun sucks. ...Oh, wait, ...I guess he didn't say that after all. My bad!

 

[Phobius]

Yeah. It's terrible the things that darn Jow Ga guy says, like how all Wing Chun sucks. ...Oh, wait, ...I guess he didn't say that after all. My bad!

But he does bring up a good point, a majority of the WC schools at least displaying themselves online and getting clicks (and as such become the only clips we see on YouTube) have seemingly fallen into the pit of doing SLT first for along time, moving on to Chum Kiu and believing this is teaching you the full footwork of WC. And then spending some years here before moving onto the next forms.

Imagine how we would all be fighting if CK was our bible for movement. (EDIT: Not saying CK teaches wrongly, it teaches good structure for stances, but I do not see it as the vision of WC footwork)

This is of course not how I was taught, and if someone was taught the way I am bashing here. Well I do not say it is bad footwork but I do not believe it personally to be good if it was for me personally. However I do want to highlight that moving in such a way is very telegraphic in terms of quickly understanding what style we practise.

 

[LFJ]

Yeah. It's terrible the things that darn Jow Ga guy says, like how all Wing Chun sucks. ...Oh, wait, ...I guess he didn't say that after all. My bad!

He said 80% chance. My bad!

 

[geezer]

He said 80% chance. My bad!

Yeah, last Thursday in post #36 Jow Ga saidd the following regarding the WC clips he had seen on Youtube:

• An 80% chance of lack of awareness of their own footing because of the focus trying to flood punches to my face. I'm pretty sure about this one because there are very few videos showing Wing Chun footwork. Most Wing Chun videos show only the upper torso. The reason why only the upper torso is usually shown in demos and practice videos is because many of the school probably pay very little attention to mobility.

I also believe this to be untrue, but honestly, this is not the same as saying that 80% of VT/WC sucks!!!

Regarding footwork, the VT/WC I practice places great emphasis on footwork and mobility. But it is a style of movement that is very distinct from long-bridge kung-fu systems, and it's methods are probably pretty unfamiliar to Jow Ga.

For one thing, although we can move quickly in any direction, we are known for compact rather than long-range movements. My old sifu said that a WC man is like the king on the chess-board. He moves easily in any direction, but only a distance of one square. We do have passing-steps and three-angle walking that cover more ground, but they are not so commonly used.