Ba Gua and Wing Chun

[Juany118]

Southern Bagua stepping is based on 9 points, 8 on the perimeter and 1 in the center, the 8 directions. Plum blossom (5 Elements) are the same thing, and are based on a 5 point star, all points are found within the Bagua. The 4 Cardinal points (4 Gates) are the north, south, east & west points. Another variation of 5 elements is the north, south, east, west and central points of the Bagua. Southern Bagua stepping is based upon a Mandela that encompasses the other major stepping patterns.

You were more eloquent. Really I think the biggest difference is orientation. Plum flower works from the inside out, BG outside in, as I understand

 

[Nobody Important]

You were more eloquent. Really I think the biggest difference is orientation. Plum flower works from the inside out, BG outside in, as I understand

Southern Bagua works from center out, northern Bagua outside in. I spoke of this in some earlier posts. All southern stepping has you at the center.

 

[Juany118]

Southern Bagua works from center out, northern Bagua outside in. I spoke of this in some earlier posts. All southern stepping has you at the center.

Aah I missed that. Thank you for the clarification. The only BG Sifus in my area are Northern style so I tunnel visioned.

 

[Nobody Important]

Aah I missed that. Thank you for the clarification. The only BG Sifus in my area are Northern style so I tunnel visioned.

I should clarify, southern Bagua stepping. There is no southern Bagua martial art I am aware of.

 

[Juany118]

I should clarify, southern Bagua stepping. There is no southern Bagua martial art I am aware of.

Ahhh that makes it more clear. It is kinda annoying when a term can be used to define both a concept and a specific art as well isn't it?

 

[anerlich]

I would even ask "what is your definition of internal martial arts?". I say this because even Southern Bagua is referred to as internal afaik. I think people get wrapped up in appearance when it comes to that concept sometimes.

First that term is a post WWII (I think 1960s?) Artifact. Second if I am tense and someone catches it, they call me out. I need to be relaxed to properly do Wing Chun. Maybe the problem is some people don't realize there is actually a debate, in side some portions of the Wing Chun Community, as to whether we practice an internal, external, or "all of the above" martial art? Simply because you move in "straight" lines doesn't mean you universally follow stereotypical external principles.

I did Xingyi and Bagua for about five years, with some Taiji mixed in.

Some practitioners of these arts refer to them as Neijia arts, or internal. My instructor in those arts said that he regarded them as "internal" because they were based on the principles of TCM - Xingyi on Five Element Theory, BaguaZhang on the eight trigrams (involved in some acupuncture systems) and taiji on yin and yang. Where as other arts such as WC are not ... in his opinion.

"Internal" is not the same as "soft". Xingyi can be as hard as a fist of diamond.

The whole "internal/external" thing is overblown and at its base, marketing. Many WC practitioners claim they do "internal" training, but few of them explain how other than vague references to breathing and softness. Stonecrusher69's recent video on the subject is an example. No disrespect, but there's little hard definition in there.

Jiu Jitsu done properly is more "internal" by my definition (and it seems we can all choose our own, doesn't it?) than TWC. Tim Cartmell, who is highly ranked and experienced in both Neijia arts and BJJ, has stated similar opinions, and that in his opinion BJJ is an internal art.

I got introduced to Stanley Tam, a BJJ black belt from Beijing, at a Steve Maxwell seminar. He also has developed and teaches a system of Qigong and Chines Natural Healing, and he is teaching these to Steve. Very interesting guy ... I venture he knows more about the "internal" stuff than many Kung Fu guys.

 

[Jens]

Southern Bagua stepping is based on 9 points, 8 on the perimeter and 1 in the center, the 8 directions. Plum blossom (5 Elements) are the same thing, and are based on a 5 point star, all points are found within the Bagua. The 4 Cardinal points (4 Gates) are the north, south, east & west points. Another variation of 5 elements is the north, south, east, west and central points of the Bagua. Southern Bagua stepping is based upon a Mandela that encompasses the other major stepping patterns.

thanks for the reply Nobody Important,
Can you please explain how the Plum blossom (5 Elements) or 5 point star are found within the Bagua 9 points?

Also can you post the link to a photo of the Mandela that encompasses the other major stepping patterns within Southern Bagua stepping?