What exactly is atheism? (offshoot of same sex thread)
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oftheherd1
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All I can tell you is that yes, true Christians do care about who isn't a Christian. However, a true Christian will never try to force someone to believe as they do. It goes against Christianity. If you have only met 'cults' rather than caring Christians, I am sorry. Caring Christians will indeed tell you about their belief, many at any opportunity. But they will never try to force you to their belief, nor will most take it to the point of turning you off, if they realize they may be doing so.
I have read that of satanists as well. I had a friend in the Army that was getting into it, and it had to be rooted in his militant Catholic school upbringing; because, I couldn't see where else it was coming from. As for atheism, I have a friend who is an atheist and the blame is on her parents, whom may or may not have had a strong religious upbringing. I'm guessing they did.
Sean
oftheherd1
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Yes, I got that. I didn't think my answer implied anything else. But to clear any misunderstanding up, the King James Bible was not a Catholic Bible. It was not the first Bible in English; that was Wycliff's English translation.
oftheherd1
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I've no doubt that it may be. I'm sorry it is so.
Maybe you need to broaden you contacts. :uhyeah:
Isn't there scripture that says go forth and spread the word, and another indicating all true Christians are meant to be an evangelist. I can't remember the verses, was a long time ago I read the bible.
I didn't say it was the first Bible in English.
Methinks you didn't read my link and don't know as much as English history as you think. http://www.greatsite.com/timeline-english-bible-history/
"The Anglican Church’s King James Bible took decades to overcome the more popular Protestant Church’s Geneva Bible. One of the greatest ironies of history, is that many Protestant Christian churches today embrace the King James Bible exclusively as the “only” legitimate English language translation… yet it is not even a Protestant translation! It was printed to compete with the Protestant Geneva Bible, by authorities who throughout most of history were hostile to Protestants… and killed them. While many Protestants are quick to assign the full blame of persecution to the Roman Catholic Church, it should be noted that even after England broke from Roman Catholicism in the 1500’s, the Church of England (The Anglican Church) continued to persecute Protestants throughout the 1600’s. One famous example of this is John Bunyan, who while in prison for the crime of preaching the Gospel, wrote one of Christian history’s greatest books, Pilgrim’s Progress. Throughout the 1600’s, as the Puritans and the Pilgrims fled the religious persecution of England to cross the Atlantic and start a new free nation in America, they took with them their precious Geneva Bible, and rejected the King’s Bible. America was founded upon the Geneva Bible, not the King James Bible.
Protestants today are largely unaware of their own history, and unaware of the Geneva Bible (which is textually 95% the same as the King James Version, but 50 years older than the King James Version, and not influenced by the Roman Catholic Rheims New Testament that the King James translators admittedly took into consideration). "
If you believe in the 'Old Testament' you will know that Jesus wasn't the messiah..... you can't have it both ways.
...and what those people are doing with their bodies, and who they marry, and...
Exactly!
Xue Sheng
All weight is underside
Ever here of a little thing called the Crusades? There were a long time ago, but there was more than one, but I suppose you could have missed them
celtic_crippler
Senior Master
Religion has been used as a political tool from day one. "Belief" is very powerful.
I know atheists who keep it to themselves as well as people of faith. But even "atheists" believe in something... and those beliefs are exploited. For example, a very good childhood friend of mine is atheist and because of that he jumped right on the Obamacare bandwagon of wanting to force Christian based organizations to provide coverage for abortion.
Even though he's also homosexual and feels it's not right to legislate who someone can marry, he didn't hesitate to support legislation that would force somebody else to do something contrary to their beliefs. Eventually, he saw the irony in it and capitulated... but the point is, his "beliefs" were used to garner support from a political power, in both cases actually.
I know atheists who keep it to themselves as well as people of faith. But even "atheists" believe in something... and those beliefs are exploited. For example, a very good childhood friend of mine is atheist and because of that he jumped right on the Obamacare bandwagon of wanting to force Christian based organizations to provide coverage for abortion.
Even though he's also homosexual and feels it's not right to legislate who someone can marry, he didn't hesitate to support legislation that would force somebody else to do something contrary to their beliefs. Eventually, he saw the irony in it and capitulated... but the point is, his "beliefs" were used to garner support from a political power, in both cases actually.
And the Inquisition. http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/History/Inquisition.html
And the Pogroms
And the terrorism and forced conversions...in the present day http://newsgroups.derkeiler.com/Archive/Soc/soc.culture.indian/2007-11/msg00125.html
sSome very strong accusations about Christian groups http://freetruth.50webs.org/D4f.htm
However I've heard from many Nepalese that the Christian groups are very aggressive and are trying to rid the country of both Buddhists and Hindus. so much of this I know is true.
http://freetruth.50webs.org/D4h.htm#Nepal
These are my beliefs\non-beliefs (what ever you want to call it). These are my opinions. Everyone will be different.
Religion: Dogma, I believe the church is a business alongside any other company. And prone to greed, corruption, and unscrupulous acts along side any other corporate entity. Both also capable of fantastic, innovative and selfless acts. As personal experience to testament to this, I have work many years with youth, homeless and mentally unstable people on a volunteer basis, and a professionally with-in IT scopes. And have seen things that absolutely repulsed me, with certain organisations that should not behave that way.
Spiritual: It's non-denominational to me, and it sums up what I think of people with "faith". It's the person I believe in, not the doctrine. But to profess to be a person of faith, I automatically expect you to behave the way your doctrine is expecting you too. (within reason of course). But I dislike the hypocrisy sometimes especially people who are examples of their faith and are just weekend evangelists. These are people of all walks, some are good some are bad. If you claim to have a spiritual side and are attached to a religious order, I'll hold you to that and weigh it in judgement of you. I've met and known people of all denominations, some are close friends others in passing through my life. I don't care if you have beliefs, just practice what you preach. Even then I don't really care, if we get along we get along. In my years I've met Christians (mostly), witches\warlocks, Buddhists, Muslims, Satanist, bohemianism and other denominations, including agnostics and atheists. Some are more righteous than others, but we are all human and prone to mistakes, acts of cruelty and compassion. None more or less capable than the other, and everyone has different sets of morals and codes of conduct. Although, self-righteousness and judgmental, ignorant attitude are more intrinsic to some than others.
Atheism: The reason I'm an atheist, because religion means nothing to me personally, I have interest in it, because my peers and friends do. I like to understand their mind set. I like some of the traditions and the history, it is interesting and has shaped some parts of culture and the world in different ways. Do I personally buy into it? No. Will I ever? Probability is unlikely, since I've been involved with churches\faith organisations, spiritual people at differing stages of my life, have also tried to and resulted in non-belief, but not from lack of friends trying to instill it in me.
Skepticism: I am a skeptical person, I have a lot of interest in science. I only bang my chest at Spiritual people when they make claims that can be tested and actually proven. Like hollow earth, young creationists, intelligent design etc.
I like hearing about different ways of life, we have moved into a strong Jewish suburb. I've had very little to non-existent exposure to this culture back in Australia. So I've been making the most of it, my neighbor is a Jewish family, and they make me what I'm told is traditional Jewish food and drop it over some times. Our kids come home from school singing songs and have home work of different ways, they are teaching me about the different traditions.
I'm not at the familiarity with them yet to start asking questions, and they have done nothing to force any views. They don't hide it, and I don't get the impression they will care if I'm a non-believer. I've also started to take an interest in Zen Buddhism, because of the influence on karate. So I'll hopefully start looking at that as well.
That's my story, that's what being an Atheist is to me, if you think it's called something else that's fine.
Religion: Dogma, I believe the church is a business alongside any other company. And prone to greed, corruption, and unscrupulous acts along side any other corporate entity. Both also capable of fantastic, innovative and selfless acts. As personal experience to testament to this, I have work many years with youth, homeless and mentally unstable people on a volunteer basis, and a professionally with-in IT scopes. And have seen things that absolutely repulsed me, with certain organisations that should not behave that way.
Spiritual: It's non-denominational to me, and it sums up what I think of people with "faith". It's the person I believe in, not the doctrine. But to profess to be a person of faith, I automatically expect you to behave the way your doctrine is expecting you too. (within reason of course). But I dislike the hypocrisy sometimes especially people who are examples of their faith and are just weekend evangelists. These are people of all walks, some are good some are bad. If you claim to have a spiritual side and are attached to a religious order, I'll hold you to that and weigh it in judgement of you. I've met and known people of all denominations, some are close friends others in passing through my life. I don't care if you have beliefs, just practice what you preach. Even then I don't really care, if we get along we get along. In my years I've met Christians (mostly), witches\warlocks, Buddhists, Muslims, Satanist, bohemianism and other denominations, including agnostics and atheists. Some are more righteous than others, but we are all human and prone to mistakes, acts of cruelty and compassion. None more or less capable than the other, and everyone has different sets of morals and codes of conduct. Although, self-righteousness and judgmental, ignorant attitude are more intrinsic to some than others.
Atheism: The reason I'm an atheist, because religion means nothing to me personally, I have interest in it, because my peers and friends do. I like to understand their mind set. I like some of the traditions and the history, it is interesting and has shaped some parts of culture and the world in different ways. Do I personally buy into it? No. Will I ever? Probability is unlikely, since I've been involved with churches\faith organisations, spiritual people at differing stages of my life, have also tried to and resulted in non-belief, but not from lack of friends trying to instill it in me.
Skepticism: I am a skeptical person, I have a lot of interest in science. I only bang my chest at Spiritual people when they make claims that can be tested and actually proven. Like hollow earth, young creationists, intelligent design etc.
I like hearing about different ways of life, we have moved into a strong Jewish suburb. I've had very little to non-existent exposure to this culture back in Australia. So I've been making the most of it, my neighbor is a Jewish family, and they make me what I'm told is traditional Jewish food and drop it over some times. Our kids come home from school singing songs and have home work of different ways, they are teaching me about the different traditions.
I'm not at the familiarity with them yet to start asking questions, and they have done nothing to force any views. They don't hide it, and I don't get the impression they will care if I'm a non-believer. I've also started to take an interest in Zen Buddhism, because of the influence on karate. So I'll hopefully start looking at that as well.
That's my story, that's what being an Atheist is to me, if you think it's called something else that's fine.
I see you have found the mainstay of Judaism...food! Jews don't preach or try to convert people, quite the opposite if you expressed interest we'd be shouting, no, no! We don't have a institutional 'church' either, there isn't an overall governing body. Rabbis aren't priests they are teachers. If you express interest your neighbours will tell you about Judaism, well their version lol, probably not quite the same as mine, they will not expect you to believe anything, certainly not what they believe. Personally I'd be happier in the company of athiests and agnostics than committed Christians, (sorry but it's true)
A guy a work who is a christian told me one weekend, he didn't actually believe in god, it's just the way he's been raised. Think he wanted to get it off his chest. I don't use him as my Christian example. Don't know if he's homosexual or what political party he follows, wasn't relevant to the discussion. Just told him to hang in there and work it out, what ever he's been doing is ok, he's a good guy. And if he's happy who cares.
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I do love food, we have that in common.
celtic_crippler
Senior Master
Bacon.
Xue Sheng
All weight is underside
DARN IT!!!! I can't believe I forgot to mention Torquemada and the boys... I ALWAYS throw that one out along with the Crusades in conversations like this.
Thanks for adding it
As for the rest, sadly it does not surprise me at all.
The Gurkhas here are targeted by our local 'born again Christians', they go around to their houses to try and convert them, Gurkhas of course in the tradtional ways of Nepal invite them in and offer them food and drink ( as they will all visitors), the 'missionaries' ( how they style themselves) take advantage of this hospitality and presume on the Nepalese way of being polite to visitors to harangue their hosts into becoming Christian. A lot of the church groups in Nepal itself are funded by Americans who use withholding medical care and schooling to blackmail the Nepalese into converting. If you aren't a Christian you can't use the medical facilities or schools funded by these groups.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/jul/24/evangelical-christians-homophobia-africa
http://www.alternet.org/story/153543/the_christmas_war_on_atheism%3A_what's_the_religious_right_whining_about_when_it's_really_non-believers_who_are_under_attack
http://buddhism.about.com/b/2008/05/30/buddhists-v-christians-in-sri-lanka.htm
http://www.thehindu.com/news/national/article2640084.ece
I think Christians need to see what is being done in their religions name.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/jul/24/evangelical-christians-homophobia-africa
http://www.alternet.org/story/153543/the_christmas_war_on_atheism%3A_what's_the_religious_right_whining_about_when_it's_really_non-believers_who_are_under_attack
http://buddhism.about.com/b/2008/05/30/buddhists-v-christians-in-sri-lanka.htm
http://www.thehindu.com/news/national/article2640084.ece
I think Christians need to see what is being done in their religions name.
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