What do you consider spiritual?

[windwalker099]

You make thing too complicate. Just be a good person. It's just as simple as that.

Don't feel it's complicated....

it is said

"What is a good man but a bad man's teacher? What is a bad man but a good man's job?"

Not looking for a job nor a teacher.

Being self aware allows one to to act in accordance with one's nature..
good or bad, nothing to do with it...

un aware = "fist meets, face"
self aware = not be the face, the fist meets

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

un aware = "fist meets, face"
self aware = not be the face, the fist meets

You still make thing too complicate. MA is just as simple as "fist meet face". There is nothing spiritual about it.

 

[Buka]

 

[Sammy Naur]

I'll start. My definition of spirituality is: "Understanding your own self, and creating a harmony between yourself and your surrounding environment."

As an addendum example: I initially thought about using nature instead of surrounding environments, but thought that fell flat. People who grew up in a city could feel more spiritual and more of a connection to the world in that environment, than in nature, and someone who has a harmony between themselves and nature, but lives purely in the city and never sees nature, would not be very zen.

But your definition is in contract with the fact that cities are part of nature. There is nothing in any city that doesn't come from nature. Every piece of concrete, wood, metal etc. human.

I think I'll use the Wampanoag definition, these are a people who made their way to southeastern New England maybe around 10,000 BC. Same tribe often associated with "Thanksgiving" but that whole thing is mostly Puritan and Pilgrim mythology.

To the Wampanoag, everything in nature had a spirit. Trees, rocks, animals. Before any kill was taken, or even a tree cut down, they would say words of thanks.

So even in the acts of killing, destroying, burning, or drinking or eating something, it was all considered spiritual,

19 words.

 

[Sammy Naur]

You still make thing too complicate. MA is just as simple as "fist meet face". There is nothing spiritual about it.

Disagree.

Anybody whose gotten even one, knows how their spirit felt. I know the picture you posted was meant to be a joke but most people have never ever been punched, let alone that hard.

It was either crushed and you cried, or you got angry and became an animal.

Have you only grappled? I do think this is one limitation of the wrestling/grappling side, they don't even know how to deal with being struck in the head. You better have some spirit when that happens for real or things won't end well for you.

 

[Sammy Naur]

You make thing too complicate. Just be a good person. It's just as simple as that.

I don't eat meat. I believe human being can live without killing. I believe all animal has as much right to live as human. I can't be a bad person if I believe in that. But I just don't talk about it.

Some Chinese stop eating meat once a month and believe that's high spiritual thing.

So, if we have a thread, "You should be a good person." I don't believe anybody will have any objection.

This post is a another good example.

What does being "good" had to do with spiritual?

You are implying bad people can't be spiritual, which isn't true. Bad people can not only be very spiritual, they have murdered countless people.

The ancient Aztec cultures tortured sacrificed innocents all of their history, to satisfy their spiritual needs.

Plenty of people have been killed in the name of various deities, as far back as recorded time itself.

China has a long history, again why I think the Taoist/Buddhist "monk warrior" theme is largely a contradiction. Not to pick on any one country thought, they've all done it. Even America and its "Spirit of the West", which is glorified in movies and TV shows, is a fantasy on top of murder, robbery, and fraud.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

Have you only grappled? I do think this is one limitation of the wrestling/grappling side, they don't even know how to deal with being struck in the head. You better have some spirit when that happens for real or things won't end well for you.

I train striking art too. I have fought one golden glove boxing tournament in Beverly Hills, Texas back in 1977. Those Texas red necks just wanted to knock my head off. It was either I knocked my opponent down, or my opponent knocked me down. I didn't feel any spiritual about it.

 

[Sammy Naur]

self-awareness.

This idea that spiritualism has something to do with someone's self perception, is also self contradictory.

Someone can be completely self aware, evil, and spiritual.

I don't mean to pick bones but there is a pretty objective definition out there of spiritual. It doesn't need gods, or souls, or existential stuff like good and evil. It's about internal connection with the outside world.

Which is why if you punch me in the face, or even grab me in anger, you're going to feel my spirit deep inside your own. And I think that is perfectly only human.

 

[Sammy Naur]

I train striking art too. I have fought one golden glove boxing tournament in Beverly Hills, Texas. Those Texas red necks just wanted to knock my head off. It was either I knocked my opponent down, or my opponent knocked me down. I didn't feel any spiritual about it.

So you haven't really done it much? It makes sense, most people hate it even if they try it. It's like a lot of sports, falling down,getting hurt, getting back.

It is a learned taste. The spiritual part comes when you're deep in the sparring, took a dozen hard shots, and had to summon up your spirit to keep going

So even if you say you didn't feel spiritual, I'm sure you felt something. Doesn't have to be some enlightening moment.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

So you haven't really done it much? It makes sense, most people hate it even if they try it.

I only fought 1 boxing tournament. I'm not in boxing. I competed in boxing tournament just tried to test my striking skill from my long fist learning. But I have fought many karate tournaments and many Sanda tournaments. There was no MMA back then. I would love to fight in MMA.

Still, I don't see striking art tournament fight has anything to do with spiritual there.

 

[Sammy Naur]

I train striking art too. I have fought one golden glove boxing tournament in Beverly Hills, Texas. Those Texas red necks just wanted to knock my head off. It was either I knocked my opponent down, or my opponent knocked me down. I didn't feel any spiritual about it.

So you haven't really done it much? It makes sense, most people hate it even if they try it.

It is a learned taste. The spiritual part comes when you're deep in the sparring, took a dozen hard shots, and had to summon up your spirit to keep going.

I only fought 1 boxing tournament (I'm not in boxing). But I have fought many karate tournaments and many Sanda tournaments. There was no MMA back then. I would love to fight in MMA.

Still, I don't see tournament fight has anything to do with spiritual there.

I think the point of this thread, maybe, is to point out how many people don't understand the meaning of "spiritual".

You just said you would "love" MMA. Love is a spiritual emotion. Probably the biggest.

Love of nature is a spiritual connection. So is love of the city. Or a person. Or training combat arts.

The opposition of spiritual? Apathy, disconnection, disassociation, deadness.

 

[Sammy Naur]

So you haven't really done it much? It makes sense, most people hate it even if they try it.

It is a learned taste. The spiritual part comes when you're deep in the sparring, took a dozen hard shots, and had to summon up your spirit to keep going.

I think the point of this thread, maybe, is to point out how many people don't understand the meaning of "spiritual".

You just said you would "love" MMA. Love is a spiritual emotion. Probably the biggest.

Love of nature is a spiritual connection. So is love of the city. Or a person. Or training combat arts.

The opposition of spiritual? Apathy, disconnection, disassociation, deadness.

And hate can surely be spiritual. Terribly so.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

You just said you would "love" MMA. Love is a spiritual emotion. Probably the biggest.

If I can

- block/dodge a punch/kick,
- land a punch/kick,
- counter a take down, or
- take my opponent down,

I will smile in my dream for many nights. Not sure I will call that spiritual. I assume it depends on the definition.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

So you haven't really done it much? It makes sense, most people hate it even if they try it.

One of my students only wanted to learn how to fight. He didn't want to learn any basic such as form, stances, footwork, block, dodge, stretching, ... We met 4 times a week of 2 hours each. When he came, we put gloves on and fought full contact. We did that for 8 months. In those 8 months, there was not a single day that I didn't have pain on my body. 8 months later, my student got into a bar fight, within 15 minutes, his opponent could not land even a single punch on him. His opponent finally sat down and refused to continue.

Sorry to talk about the past. When you get old, past is the only thing that you have left.

 

[Sammy Naur]

If I can

- block/dodge a punch/kick,
- land a punch/kick,
- counter a take down, or
- take my opponent down,

I will smile in my dream for many nights. Not sure I will call that spiritual. I assume it depends on the definition.

It's spiritual.

The word is Latin, spiritus, going back further to Greece, pneuma, which basically means the breath life heartbeat connection. Parump pump pump, like a drum.

Aristotle wrote a lot about this, which is where i first learned the term pneuma/spiritus.

A lot of modern, personal definitions focus on whatever someone is into, religious, sexual, philosophy, etc. But the core, objective, sort of timeless definition is what makes you feel alive and willing to go on. Music is considered spiritual for the same reason. Everything from religious "slave spirituals" to European death metal.

And that's why we use terms like "broken spirit", "spiritless", "lack of spirit". Everyone knows immediately what those mean.

 

[Sammy Naur]

One of my students only wanted to learn how to fight. He didn't want to learn any basic such as form, stances, footwork, block, dodge, stretching, ... We met 4 times a week of 2 hours each. When he came, we put gloves on and fought full contact. We did that for 8 months. In those 8 months, there was not a single day that I didn't have pain on my body. 8 months later, my student got into a bar fight, within 15 minutes, his opponent could not land even a single punch on him. His opponent finally sat down and refused to continue.

Sorry to talk about the past. When you get old, past is the only thing that you have left.

It's fine, I like stories.

Let's talk about horses. There's a great example of the spirit between man and animal.

Have you ever seen the movie Seabiscuit?

If you want to see see real spirit, watch that movie. It's the mostly true story of one of the most successful racehorses in history, during the Great Depression. And I know enough about horses to bore you to death so always willing to talk about that, but just imagine the spirit connection between a human, a horse, and let's say, an archery setup.

And now we're back to the Wampanoag. They had no horses until Europeans brought them over. Most people don't know this. The original native tribes in North America had no horses, just dogs. And there again, it's easy to see spirit between dog and man. Dog and man, horse and man, man and man, man and woman.

We are having a "spirited" conversation.

 

[Prince_Alarming]

You'd think, as somebody who aspires to become a priest, that I would be ideally placed to answer this, but the truth is, I don't know any more than anyone else

 

[windwalker099]

Inspired by another thread, I'm curious about what people consider to be spiritual. In that endeavor, if people could provide a working definition of spiritual/spirituality, under than 20 words, I think that could help with understanding each others viewpoints, clarifying our own viewpoints, and possibly help each of us evolve our own viewpoints of spirituality.

Observation

There are a very distinct viewpoints based on what some feel is spirituality based on.
Reflected from western or eastern viewpoint's
or even a mix of both...makes interesting reading...

The Western viewpoint belief-based, structured around religious doctrines and communal worship.

The Eastern viewpoint practice-based, focusing on direct, experiential interactions with the spirit and the universe.

western / dualism / clear distinctions between self and other, good and evil, heaven and hell.
eastern / non-dualism / 道 (dào) Chinese, 道 (dō) Japanese referring to a way or principal.


精神 (jīngshén) seems to be what most are referring to; used to describe the human spirit, vitality, or essence.
神 (shén) can mean deity, god, or spirit

In China, 神 (shén) can be used directly as part of ones practice. The practice itself developing this aspect.
not spiritually based in the western sense of the word.
practices built around the concepts of "yi" (意), intent "qi" (气), energy and "shen" (神) spirit
can use it directly.

" The spirit sails as if in empty space. It is solemn and hidden as though covered by snow and frost. It lies submerged like a resting dragon. It jumps like a roaring lion. It can be as (bright and) fierce as fire, and can sink under water. Therefore, when not in motion, it has no form. But once in action, it is very vigorous. It is not necessary to raise the limbs and move the body, but it is more than adequate to deter the different things (e.g., your opponent) at a distance."

 

[Gyakuto]

 

[Holmejr]

I believe that mankind was created to worship. Virtually every previously undiscovered people, once discovered have been found to worship. We naturally look for the spiritual, whether it is in organized
religion, new age, the occult, ufo ology or even MAs. It sets us apart from the rest of creation.