What do you consider spiritual?

[Gyakuto]

I believe that mankind was created to worship. Virtually every previously undiscovered people, once discovered have been found to worship. We naturally look for the spiritual, whether it is in organized
religion, new age, the occult, ufo ology or even MAs. It sets us apart from the rest of creation.

Couldn’t that be because humanity was fearful? We feared crop failure, we feared pestilence and disease, we feared not finding food on the hunt, we feared adult/child mortality, we feared the sun permanently disappearing during an eclipse etc etc. Early human life was filled with frightening uncertainty. So we invented objects of worship in an attempt to pacify these potential calamities. We gain comfort from the idea of a ‘benevolent father’ (and male it usually was) watching over us with a kindly eye never once questioning the truly awful things that he let go on around us (poor little Sara Sharif, who is currently in the British news at the moment)

Humanity has lived in continual fear until relatively recently and that current safety seems to parallel the steady and rapid decline in organised religion. God is fading away and Taylor Swift/TikTok/mobile phones are replacing him.

Having said that, the recent rise is non-specific spirituality suggests a growing sophistication in the population’s ideas of spirituality and indeed a throw back to the ‘old gods’ where the ‘higher being’ is far more nuanced than the black and white god of Abrahamic religions.

 

[Buka]

Couldn’t that be because humanity was fearful? We feared crop failure, we feared pestilence and disease, we feared not finding food on the hunt, we feared adult/child mortality, we feared the sun permanently disappearing during an eclipse etc etc. Early human life was filled with frightening uncertainty. So we invented objects of worship in an attempt to pacify these potential calamities. We gain comfort from the idea of a ‘benevolent father’ (and male it usually was) watching over us with a kindly eye never once questioning the truly awful things that he let go on around us (poor little Sara Sharif, who is currently in the British news at the moment)

Humanity has lived in continual fear until relatively recently and that current safety seems to parallel the steady and rapid decline in organised religion. God is fading away and Taylor Swift/TikTok/mobile phones are replacing him.

Having said that, the recent rise is non-specific spirituality suggests a growing sophistication in the population’s ideas of spirituality and indeed a throw back to the ‘old gods’ where the ‘higher being’ is far more nuanced than the black and white god of Abrahamic religions.

We are indoctrinated as children to the great and powerful Oz. To be ruled by its manuscript, rules, its fire and brimstone.

Hallelujah and pass the collection plate.

 

[Gyakuto]

We are indoctrinated as children to the great and powerful Oz. To be ruled by its manuscript, rules, its fire and brimstone.

Hallelujah and pass the collection plate.

The message is generally good, but it’s the implementation that is very, very poor.

The decentralisation of non-organised spiritual practises is a very good thing.

Has anyone seen ‘Conclave’? Very enjoyable, indeed.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

Couldn’t that be because humanity was fearful?

The most weakness of the human being is we always miss what we don't have, and we forget what we already have.

For some people, if their eyes can see and their legs can walk, they are happy. For other people, if they can't drive luxury car, they are not happy.

 

[Prince_Alarming]

I think there's a danger of focussing too much on what separates us and not enough on what binds us together. I won't attempt a definition as I suspect I'm as far as anybody else from understanding what spirituality is really about, but what I can tell you is that in Paul's letters, he continually reminds us that if we do not love our fellow men then 'christ is not in us', so to speak. He also tells us that loving each other- not just those who are easy to love who wish to do us good, but also those who are difficult to love, who wish to do us harm- and following christ's word as far as we are able, is the 'sacrifice' that is appreciated by the almighty. For me, it's about commonality, a shared spiritual ethos of striving to do as well as we can by one another and working towards shared ethical values. I sometimes come across people calling themselves Christians who seek to denigrate others, to deny them citizenship in the kingdom of god, and if that's christ's message then I don't want it. My bishop recently said in a sermon that he is sometimes asked why he wants the church to be inclusive and that he always answers, why because Christ is inclusive. I think that's worth bearing in mind.

 

[JowGaWolf]

I think there's a danger of focussing too much on what separates us and not enough on what binds us together.

I don't like those things. Examples of what binds us together:
1. ignorance
2. Fear
3. Hate
4. Hardships
5. Denial

I understand that there are positive aspects that connect individuals, unfortunately negative experiences are often more effective in this regard. Frequently, these negative factors that unite us lead to unwise decisions and actions.

I find it more comfortable to concentrate on the aspects that distinguish us, while recognizing that others are not bound to be like me. Knowledge and growth come from how we differ from each other. This distinction enriches my perspective on life. While individuals who share similarities with me are pleasant to be around, I do not gain much insight about life from those interactions.

I tend to prioritize the elements that highlight our differences over those that emphasize our similarities. The jails and prisoners are full of similarities.

All of us have probably heard or said this phrase or something like it. "Try something different, you may like it." It's mostly used when we want someone to "grow" as an individual.

It's kinda of strange that people who embrace the differences of others tend to get along better with people than those who want to only look for similarities.

I understand the phrase you are using. But there is no way a person can know me or get along with me without understanding the differences. Once they understand the differences then it's easier to learn the similarities.

I've had people in the past assume similarities. They assumed that I was as corrupt as they were, so they "stabbed me in the back" Their justification was "I'll do that to him because he would do it to me." Those were real similarities. Those were self-reflections about how they would treat someone who was the same as them.

 

[Prince_Alarming]

I don't like those things. Examples of what binds us together:
1. ignorance
2. Fear
3. Hate
4. Hardships
5. Denial

I understand that there are positive aspects that connect individuals, unfortunately negative experiences are often more effective in this regard. Frequently, these negative factors that unite us lead to unwise decisions and actions.

I find it more comfortable to concentrate on the aspects that distinguish us, while recognizing that others are not bound to be like me. Knowledge and growth come from how we differ from each other. This distinction enriches my perspective on life. While individuals who share similarities with me are pleasant to be around, I do not gain much insight about life from those interactions.

I tend to prioritize the elements that highlight our differences over those that emphasize our similarities. The jails and prisoners are full of similarities.

All of us have probably heard or said this phrase or something like it. "Try something different, you may like it." It's mostly used when we want someone to "grow" as an individual.

It's kinda of strange that people who embrace the differences of others tend to get along better with people than those who want to only look for similarities.

I understand the phrase you are using. But there is no way a person can know me or get along with me without understanding the differences. Once they understand the differences then it's easier to learn the similarities.

I've had people in the past assume similarities. They assumed that I was as corrupt as they were, so they "stabbed me in the back" Their justification was "I'll do that to him because he would do it to me." Those were real similarities. Those were self-reflections about how they would treat someone who was the same as them.

OK, well while I don't fully understand that I can respect it. I've encountered views in my bible study group, for example, that I'm uncomfortable with. Largely because they seem to have no conception of how very queer I am....

 

[JowGaWolf]

OK, well while I don't fully understand that I can respect it. I've encountered views in my bible study group, for example, that I'm uncomfortable with. Largely because they seem to have no conception of how very queer I am....

Religion by default is known for its lack of flexibility. That comes with the territory and is the nature of religion. As for views that you are uncomfortable with, I can only assume that those views are rooted in one of the five examples I listed. Right off the back I would say Ignorance. I would also say that you probably learned more about them because of the differences between you and them.

 

[_Simon_]

I hung back a bit but thought I'd chime in. Great thread idea.

My general under 20 words thoughts are:

Spirituality is a personal pathway of connecting to and understanding something deeper of your self, others, life and existence, beyond only the physical.

Okay, 23 words, dang!

Now to clarify haha, I added beyond only the physical not to say it excludes the physical, but it's a way of connecting to something beyond the five senses, and to me the spiritual and physical are not separate at all but are all the one thing so to speak. Just as a way to categorically see the distinction, yet the senses are important within spirituality too.

Spirituality has become of real significance for myself and my own personal path and is a major focus within my life. And I think anyone who really goes through a lot of "stuff" tends to be drawn to it to determine a deeper meaning to all this.

You really have to find a path that resonates deeply with you too, I feel that's so important. I've been drawn to many paths and approaches over time, from Christ and the Christian mystics, Western and Eastern philosophy, to Zen, advaita/nonduality, devotional practices, and even druidry held a special place due to a real yearning to connect with nature again; they've all held a purpose or a reason for why I've been drawn to them. But my foundational path and approach has remained pretty much the same.

I also feel it's important not to use spirituality as a way to avoid your own stuff. Spiritual bypassing is a very, very easy thing to slip into (I myself did this for a long time until finally I saw it), and can be very blinding. There's nothing wrong with working on self-improvement and psychological stuff in conjunction with spirituality. They can cross-inform each other and provide a more balanced and holistic approach.

And my martial arts practice is a huge part of spirituality for me too. The need to stay totally mindful and present, grounded, fluid and flowing are all very much applicable in a more broad sense.

I feel we tend to overcomplicate things as well, so getting back to simplicity feels important. If anything, coming back to the very felt sense of "I" and what's present here and now rather what I'm looking for to attain in the future. There's part of us that hasn't changed one bit, so sometimes that's enough to contemplate and meditate on. Making spirituality very experiential rather than conceptual and lofty has been important for me.

Just meandering thoughts haha

 

[JowGaWolf]

also feel it's important not to use spirituality as a way to avoid your own stuff. Spiritual bypassing is a very, very easy thing to slip into (I myself did this for a long time until finally I saw it), and can be very blinding.

I've seen this happen to family members. I would only expect someone who has been through or seen it happen to someone close to describe it this way.

feel we tend to overcomplicate things as well, so getting back to simplicity feels important.

This is why I like training martial arts. For one or two hours I can dump the complications of life. Ironically, video games were once like that. But now. geez.

My life as a kid and teen

My life now as an adult with slower reflexes.

19 Buttons
2 control sticks
And always getting confused as to which buttons do what every time I switch to a different game. lol.

 

[Holmejr]

We are indoctrinated as children to the great and powerful Oz. To be ruled by its manuscript, rules, its fire and brimstone.

Hallelujah and pass the collection plate.

Muggeridge:
“The depravity of man is at once the most empirically verifiable reality but at the same time the most intellectually resisted fact.”

That collection plate sends people all over the world, in places most would not chose to go, to help people few even think about.

 

[Sammy Naur]

Muggeridge:
“The depravity of man is at once the most empirically verifiable reality but at the same time the most intellectually resisted fact.”

That collection plate sends people all over the world, in places most would not chose to go, to help people few even think about.

"And kill them."

Joker, Full Metal Jacket.

Born to Kill on his helmet, but wears a peace symbol on his jacket.

 

[Gyakuto]

Looking over these posts a few things jump out:

Spirituality is whatever you want it to be (internally derived) and is thus uncodified and dare I say, vague.

Spirituality has a definite ‘self-help’ aspect to it, being used to inform the practitioner about themselves. It seems like a very ‘modern’ slant on the mystic, perhaps the result of mostly no longer living in mortal fear and instead bringing into focus our free-floating dissatisfaction with our lives.

Only one Abrahamic spiritual framework has been reported. In contrast to other posts, it seems entirely focussed externally upon a omnipotent/omnipresent deity who they believe will solve issues, provided the practitioners fulfills ‘their part of a contract’; praising that deity through prayer being the main part of it.

 

[Badhabits]

Looking over these posts a few things jump out:

Spirituality is whatever you want it to be (internally derived) and is thus uncodified and dare I say, vague.

Spirituality has a definite ‘self-help’ aspect to it, being used to inform the practitioner about themselves. It seems like a very ‘modern’ slant on the mystic, perhaps the result of mostly no longer living in mortal fear and instead bringing into focus our free-floating dissatisfaction with our lives.

Only one Abrahamic spiritual framework has been reported. In contrast to other posts, it seems entirely focussed externally upon a omnipotent/omnipresent deity who they believe will solve issues, provided the practitioners fulfills ‘their part of a contract’; praising that deity through prayer being the main part of it.

Mmmm the last paragraph is an oversimplification. I'm Christian. I have a problem with people expecting God will solve their problems if they worship Him. My belief is that God enjoys seeing us overcome problems and obstacles in life ourselves. The same as a father enjoys seeing his child overcome problems and thus grow and develop through challenge. You support that child but don't do it for them and rob them of the opportunity for growth. The concept of always expecting God to solve your problems for you because you worship Him is akin to coercion to me, and I don't believe that is what He wants of us. I'm not at all what most call a spiritual person, but this touches on something that is spiritual to me in a very direct sense due to my own experiences. Sure, He might solve your problem for you.....but He's probably going to bust your butt in the process. You're not going to avoid having to go through the growth process. At least in my experience.

 

[Badhabits]

Here's an example of something that's spiritual for me. I've always wanted a peacock. My better half never let me get one due to them being super noisy.
A couple of years ago a peacock just showed up in my yard. Big beautiful male. He's been here ever since. Comes running up to visit when I get home from work. Pecks on the front door in the morning, then hangs out while I drink my coffee outside. He's wild, sleeps way up in a tree at night, but he's my buddy. We have an aggressive rooster, that rooster gets frisky with me, the peacock kicks his butt when he's nearby.
He's my "spirit animal" lol

 

[Gyakuto]

Mmmm the last paragraph is an oversimplification.

Yes of course, I could never summarise Christianity in a forum post!

I'm Christian. I have a problem with people expecting God will solve their problems if they worship Him.

I think you’ll find that’s exactly what most Christians do! Save me/loved one from this cancer, stop the many wars in the world, help me win the upcoming Karate tournament and the lottery, while you’re at it!

My belief is that God enjoys seeing us overcome problems and obstacles in life ourselves. The same as a father enjoys seeing his child overcome problems and thus grow and develop through challenge.

A father will stop a child putting it’s head in a fire though etc, or help them set up a business etc God (s) won’t.

You support that child but don't do it for them and rob them of the opportunity for growth.

A head in a fire will be an opportunity for growth…they’ll do it only once!

The concept of always expecting God to solve your problems for you because you worship Him is akin to coercion to me,

He would never coerce humanity, though.

and I don't believe that is what He wants of us. I'm not at all what most call a spiritual person, but this touches on something that is spiritual to me in a very direct sense due to my own experiences. Sure, He might solve your problem for you.....but He's probably going to bust your butt in the process. You're not going to avoid having to go through the growth process. At least in my experience.

Oh crikey, is there a better God from whom I can ask for definitive help?

I always found this an interesting thought process:

Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?

 

[Sammy Naur]

Spiritually isn't necessarily an individual thing, it's often communal and so even if it fits some internal need, the fit is usually external.

Religion is one example of communal spirituality, but like I pointed out earlier, so is hunting going back to ancient times. You killed the bison, but then thanked the bison, and then respected the bison by making sure every single hair became something of value, survival, etc.

Martial arts are communal as well in many cases, a lot of schools are very close knit communities with long histories, encouraging each other, etc.

On an individual level, even walking alone in a forest is communing with life and nature. All those plants trees are living things with a spirit of their own. Just like us they grow and die. You can feel it, and science even supports that it's good for your health.

I have a Gardenia that leans towards the sun. You can say there is a "scientific" reason, but can't say there is nothing spiritual about a flower reaching for the sun to grow the same way a person might reach for faith or a higher purpose. Only us humans with our fancy brains try to rationalize this, overthink what's kind of obvious.

 

[Prince_Alarming]

Mmmm the last paragraph is an oversimplification. I'm Christian. I have a problem with people expecting God will solve their problems if they worship Him. My belief is that God enjoys seeing us overcome problems and obstacles in life ourselves. The same as a father enjoys seeing his child overcome problems and thus grow and develop through challenge. You support that child but don't do it for them and rob them of the opportunity for growth. The concept of always expecting God to solve your problems for you because you worship Him is akin to coercion to me, and I don't believe that is what He wants of us. I'm not at all what most call a spiritual person, but this touches on something that is spiritual to me in a very direct sense due to my own experiences. Sure, He might solve your problem for you.....but He's probably going to bust your butt in the process. You're not going to avoid having to go through the growth process. At least in my experience.

True. I mean, Christianity isn't a magic bullet, it won't solve all your problems. But it will mean that you have the best possible friend and confidante while you are going through whatever you're going through. Also, peacocks kick ***.

 

[Gyakuto]

True. I mean, Christianity isn't a magic bullet, it won't solve all your problems.

WTF? You know this is a public forum? People read this?

But it will mean that you have the best possible friend and confidante while you are going through whatever you're going through.

I’ve got great friends and confidantes, I want a fixer!

 

[Prince_Alarming]

WTF? You know this is a public forum? People read this?

I’ve got great friends and confidantes, I want a fixer!

How urgent is this problem you need fixing? Only I know a guy...