Really? I mean really? you think so highly of yourself that you can break the rules here with impunity, refuse to answer questions ( you do need to by the way as no one knows what you are chuntering about) and generally act the prat?
What are some differences between Karate and Taekwondo?
- Thread starter NinjaChristian
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Really? I mean really? you think so highly of yourself that you can break the rules here with impunity, refuse to answer questions ( you do need to by the way as no one knows what you are chuntering about) and generally act the prat?
TrueJim
Master Black Belt
Your entire thesis is that Choi used spin to promote taekwondo? That's what this has been about, all along?
"Sorry to say but this intellectual is not up for grabs" what on earth does that mean? You haven't made an intellectual argument because you haven't made it clear what you are arguing for or against. Your mind isn't as open as you claim because you are telling us what you is the truth and everyone else is wrong. How do I as a karateka know what you are saying could be true, you've not provided any proof at all. The other posters I know by reputation and I can it for granted that they are genuine in their arguments so are far more likely to be right than you are. They are no more brainwashed than I am about TKD, the likelihood actually is that you are because you are the one with the unbending ideas and not open to argument.
TrueJim
Master Black Belt
I think Alex Gillis has that title. :-D
TrueJim
Master Black Belt
<opinion>
Taekwondo by any meaningful definition/distinction from Karate dates back to 70-80s with the advent of Kukkiwon and the fundamental changes to kicking. Much more speedy, snappy kicking with a straight chamber. The WTF drove their sparring format to the ditch lately, but watch the 80s and 90s for the very best of Taekwondo.
</opinion>
Taekwondo by any meaningful definition/distinction from Karate dates back to 70-80s with the advent of Kukkiwon and the fundamental changes to kicking. Much more speedy, snappy kicking with a straight chamber. The WTF drove their sparring format to the ditch lately, but watch the 80s and 90s for the very best of Taekwondo.
</opinion>
You will simply have to step aside if my lingo is too advanced for you. I am not an intellectual for nothing. Darling, you know by your account very little about TKD, so stay out of this. It might get ugly.
It's fine, I like a man who can make fun of his own shortcomings.
I will try to use my BA(Hons) in English to follow your 'lingo' and will also try to use my BSc in psychology to work out why you think yourself an intellectual without having any sign of being so.
I think this sums you up fairly well. “The self-styled intellectual who is impotent with pen and ink hungers to write history with sword and blood.” Eric Hoffer
chrispillertkd
Senior Master
I'm very interested in hearing what your background in ITF Taekwon-Do is. How long have you trained in it? What dan level are you? How many times did you train with Gen. Choi our any of his top students? Because as it stands your claim is a not odd to be coming from anyone with a passing familiarity with Gen. Choi's system.
Pax,
Chris
Earl Weiss
Senior Master
Since Prototype was kind enough to post a link to the 1965 book on line and since it's tiresome to respond to his cherry picked snippets to the exclusion of all else I will leave it to those interested to follow the link.and read the entire chapter 1 he quotes from as well as Chapter 4 (Each very short) and decide for themselves how selective his choice of material is.
Free download of Gen. Choi Hong Hi's Encyclopedia of Taekwon-Do! (1965 condensed edition) • /r/taekwondo
Free download of Gen. Choi Hong Hi's Encyclopedia of Taekwon-Do! (1965 condensed edition) • /r/taekwondo
Even if your claim that the kicks are identical were correct (it's not, though the differences may be too subtle for those ignorant of the nuances of the arts to understand), Shotokan and Taekwon-Do would still be different arts. Because there's more to both arts than just the kicking.
Gnarlie
Master of Arts
What a telling post.You will simply have to step aside if my lingo is too advanced for you. I am not an intellectual for nothing. Darling, you know by your account very little about TKD, so stay out of this. It might get ugly
Earl Weiss
Senior Master
Well, I guess that shows the frame of reference from whence Prototype formulates his world view.
Gnarlie
Master of Arts
Apparently he's authorised to assign legitimacy or illegitimacy to martial arts willy-nilly. He must be highly qualified, huh?
Why don't you tell us what qualifications and experience you have that allow you to make this type of judgement, Prototype?
Oh wait, I think I know why...
:|
Gnarlie
Master of Arts
OK, now I'll add my view on what's actually different: tension and rooting.
Karate has always seemed relatively tense-looking to me, in that muscular tension is present throughout the motion.
Taekwondo seeks to eliminate unnecessary tension and only add it at the moment of impact or where necessary for the motion.
Where I've had people join classes coming out of Karate, even with relatively experienced people, tension has been an issue.
Karate seems to generate power from rooted stances, whereas Taekwondo draws power from a combination of a rooted foot and momentary instability.
Perhaps it's just local and perhaps just specific Karate styles, but that's my experience of the thing.
Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk
Karate has always seemed relatively tense-looking to me, in that muscular tension is present throughout the motion.
Taekwondo seeks to eliminate unnecessary tension and only add it at the moment of impact or where necessary for the motion.
Where I've had people join classes coming out of Karate, even with relatively experienced people, tension has been an issue.
Karate seems to generate power from rooted stances, whereas Taekwondo draws power from a combination of a rooted foot and momentary instability.
Perhaps it's just local and perhaps just specific Karate styles, but that's my experience of the thing.
Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk
Not sure about that one, I'm going to have to think about it. I've certainly never felt we were more rooted or used more tension. I shall have a very good think on this, cheers for posting, it's a good question.
TrueJim
Master Black Belt
I did not add this in my previous list, but yes. When I was taught "taekwondo" back in 1978, we were taught to be equally tense throughout the movement. Or to be more accurate, we weren't taught to the relaxed at the outset of the movement, and then tense-up during the movement...I recall no mention of this.
Conversely, I do not recall ever being taught to hold tension throughout a movement. But, as I always admit, there are plenty of things that a 7 year old will miss or that instructors will gloss over when dealing with very young students. But by the time my memory can be considered reasonably reliable (the mid- to late-70's) I am pretty sure no such tension was being taught.
chrispillertkd
Senior Master
This. I can't speak to KKWTKD but in ITF TKD there's a lot of emphasis placed on moving in and out of a stable stance very quickly. I've actually been at a seminar with GM Choi, Jung Hwa where he described stepping in Taekwon-Do as a "controlled fall." The use of knee spring should actually propel you forward so you accelerate into the technique as you step. This can result in a very powerful strike, especially if you end up hitting an opponent who is himself moving (which is a commonly overlooked aspect of "Reaction Force" in Gen. Choi's Theories of Power).
That being said, I have noticed that not a few people seem a bit "top heavy" when performing certain techniques. By this I mean they focus a bit too much on the mobility aspect and not enough on being rooted. This is quite detrimental when practicing joint locks and throws.
Pax,
Chris
Balrog
Master of Arts
Wasn't Gen. Choi the one who suggested the name Taekwondo? I believe that's where all this stuff about him being the "Father of Taekwondo" came from. I stand to be corrected on this, but I don't think he "invented" Taekwondo - that was a group effort, IIRC. He just got some good publicity out of it and he ran with it.
chrispillertkd
Senior Master
He is the one who coined the term "Taekwon-Do." He's the one who developed the first set of Taekwon-Do patterns and began altering the body mechanics from the various forms of Japanese karate that the Kwan founders had studied. GM J.C. Kim pointed out that it was only the Oh Do Kwan and, later, the Chung Do Kwan after Gen. Choi became its honorary Kwan Jang that were doing Taekwon-Do until the mid to late 1960s.
The problem is there are two distinct styles using the same name. After Gen. Choi returned to Korea from Malaysia he found that the Korea Taekwon-Do Association was no longer using the name Taekwon-Do and had changed to Tae Soo Do. He was re-elected President and during his term forced a name change back to Taekwon-Do. After he was no longer president the KTA kept the name despite developing its own style. In retrospect it may have been better if Gen. Choi had simply left the KTA as the Korea Tae Soo Do Association. It certainly would be much less confusing today.
The bottom line is Gen. Choi is the founder of the Oh Do Kwan, the ITF, and Taekwon-Do. When he was asked about others' contributions to Gen. Choi's TKD GM J.C. Kim made it very clear that other people shouldn't be considered "co-founders" since it was Gen. Choi's vision and they were, at most, assisting him. He's on facebook if you want to ask him questions. He's quite forthcoming and was with Gen. Choi very early on through the 1980's and was a very important figure in the development of Taekwon-Do and the founding of the ITF.
Kukkiwon Taekwondo was founded by second generation Kwan Jangs who didn't follow Gen. Choi. As far as I can tell none of the Kwan founders were involved with the actual founding of KKW TKD. That was left to their students.
Pax,
Chris
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