Well I feel like an idiot.

[JKDJade]

What confuses me though is what type of art it is? Chinese or Japanese? Why do we wear gi's and have belts?

It's Stockton-nese. Pure American bullshido.

 

[martialarts4life]

I watched snippets of this video, and here is what I see:

The way they move is very much Tracy Kenpo. Not surprising, didn't the founder train in Tracy Kenpo?

I did not recognize the specific self defense scenario combinations they were practicing as being from Tracy, but I only watched a couple so definitely could have missed some. I wasn't going to sit thru 47 minutes of video. Could be the founder created his own combos for his own curriculum.

The wearing of the karate belt knot on the hip screams Parker Kenpo. Al Tracy is very much opposed to that. I personally do not like it.

Yes, Al Moore, his brother Ralph Moore, and Al's son Vern (Al Moore, Jr.) were Tracy Kenpo Karate students in the early to mid 1960's. They were beginner white belts with no prior training. They did not ever study directly from or with any of the Tracy brothers, but did study under assistant instructors Steven Labounty, Bob Blackmoore, and Ted Sumner. Mr. Labounty passed away recently, Mr. Blackmoore passed away about 20 years ago, and Mr. Sumner lives in Texas and still teaches part-time. I spoke with Al Tracy on the telephone in 2008, so that is where I got this information. After earning their 1st degree black belts, Al, Ralph, and Vern moved on to study a style called BoK Fu Do (System of the White Tiger) from Richard Lee in the late 1960's. Al and Ralph earned their black belts in the late 1960's, and Al Moore, Jr. earned his black belt in the early 1970's. Kind of odd that it wasn't a sash considering Mr. Lee teaches a kung fu style. Mr. Lee was a former high ranking Tracy kenpo black belt that broke off and started his own style. After earning their 1st degree black belts, the Moore's took over the lease of one of Mr. Lee's schools and opened their own school teaching their Americanized made-up style of Shou shu, which is simply just a blend of what they learned in Tracy kenpo and Bod Fu Do packaged under a fancy name with a slick marketing plan. Shou Shu has elements of Shuai Jaio or Chaio (pronounced "shu-ee-jow", Chinese wrestling originating in Beijing), which makes sense considering Mr. Lee's style would have a bit of that in the curriculum.

I have heard many different backstory's from those that are part of the Moore's chain of schools, however, nobody has been able to provide names of any Grandmaster's in China, pictures of training, tea ceremonies, copies of passports, etc., to substantiate any of the stories that I have heard about Al Moore's supposed training in China sometime after WWII. I did hear of someone named Lu Chin but no kung fu expert that I've spoken with (Doc Fai Wong, Tat-Mau Wong, the Lacey brothers. etc.) has ever heard of this person, if he ever existed.

One last thing, I find the combining of kung fu uniforms and a Japanese belt system to be quite odd. Richard Lee does have a similar uniform as well as small circular patches representing his organization, so I understand where the Moore's got their uniform system and animal patches on the belts. Karate is heavily influenced by the Chinese martial arts, so maybe that is why Al Moore decided to combine the two. Outside of the United States, one will never find this in Japan or China.

 

[martialarts4life]

Shou Shu, is a gimmick. It's repacked Tracy Kenpo. I studied kenpo before, then moved to Monterey, Ca in 2010 and found this Shou Shu place. It said it was Chinese martial arts, but they called it Moore's Karate...umm ok. Then they wore karate pants, with the chinese kung fu top and karate belts lol. Anyways the whole story of Jimmy Chin and the secret art is pure bullshido. Anhyone who has studied Tracy Kenpo can see that shou shu is exactly that, they have some veriations and renamed all the techniques. Still not a bad style, if you like kenpo.

Al Moore, his brother Ralph Moore, and Al's son Vern (Al Moore, Jr.) were Tracy Kenpo Karate students in the early to mid 1960's. They were beginner white belts with no prior training. They did not ever study directly from or with any of the Tracy brothers, but did study under assistant instructors Steven Labounty, Bob Blackmoore, and Ted Sumner. Mr. Labounty passed away recently, Mr. Blackmoore passed away about 20 years ago, and Mr. Sumner lives in Texas and still teaches part-time. I spoke with Al Tracy on the telephone in 2008, so that is where I got this information. After earning their 1st degree black belts, Al, Ralph, and Vern moved on to study a style called BoK Fu Do (System of the White Tiger) from Richard Lee in the late 1960's. Al and Ralph earned their black belts in the late 1960's, and Al Moore, Jr. earned his black belt in the early 1970's. Kind of odd that it wasn't a sash considering Mr. Lee teaches a kung fu style. Mr. Lee was a former high ranking Tracy kenpo black belt that broke off and started his own style. After earning their 1st degree black belts, the Moore's took over the lease of one of Mr. Lee's schools and opened their own school teaching their Americanized made-up style of Shou shu, which is simply just a blend of what they learned in Tracy kenpo and Bod Fu Do packaged under a fancy name with a slick marketing plan. Shou Shu has elements of Shuai Jaio or Chaio (pronounced "shu-ee-jow", Chinese wrestling originating in Beijing), which makes sense considering Mr. Lee's style would have a bit of that in the curriculum.

I have heard many different backstory's from those that are part of the Moore's chain of schools, however, nobody has been able to provide names of any Grandmaster's in China, pictures of training, tea ceremonies, copies of passports, etc., to substantiate any of the stories that I have heard about Al Moore's supposed training in China sometime after WWII. I did hear of someone named Lu Chin but no kung fu expert that I've spoken with (Doc Fai Wong, Tat-Mau Wong, the Lacey brothers. etc.) has ever heard of this person, if he ever existed.

One last thing, I find the combining of kung fu uniforms and a Japanese belt system to be quite odd. Richard Lee does have a similar uniform as well as small circular patches representing his organization, so I understand where the Moore's got their uniform system and animal patches on the belts. Karate is heavily influenced by the Chinese martial arts, so maybe that is why Al Moore decided to combine the two. Outside of the United States, one will never find this in Japan or China.

 

[Buka]

Yes, Al Moore, his brother Ralph Moore, and Al's son Vern (Al Moore, Jr.) were Tracy Kenpo Karate students in the early to mid 1960's. They were beginner white belts with no prior training. They did not ever study directly from or with any of the Tracy brothers, but did study under assistant instructors Steven Labounty, Bob Blackmoore, and Ted Sumner. Mr. Labounty passed away recently, Mr. Blackmoore passed away about 20 years ago, and Mr. Sumner lives in Texas and still teaches part-time. I spoke with Al Tracy on the telephone in 2008, so that is where I got this information. After earning their 1st degree black belts, Al, Ralph, and Vern moved on to study a style called BoK Fu Do (System of the White Tiger) from Richard Lee in the late 1960's. Al and Ralph earned their black belts in the late 1960's, and Al Moore, Jr. earned his black belt in the early 1970's. Kind of odd that it wasn't a sash considering Mr. Lee teaches a kung fu style. Mr. Lee was a former high ranking Tracy kenpo black belt that broke off and started his own style. After earning their 1st degree black belts, the Moore's took over the lease of one of Mr. Lee's schools and opened their own school teaching their Americanized made-up style of Shou shu, which is simply just a blend of what they learned in Tracy kenpo and Bod Fu Do packaged under a fancy name with a slick marketing plan. Shou Shu has elements of Shuai Jaio or Chaio (pronounced "shu-ee-jow", Chinese wrestling originating in Beijing), which makes sense considering Mr. Lee's style would have a bit of that in the curriculum.

I have heard many different backstory's from those that are part of the Moore's chain of schools, however, nobody has been able to provide names of any Grandmaster's in China, pictures of training, tea ceremonies, copies of passports, etc., to substantiate any of the stories that I have heard about Al Moore's supposed training in China sometime after WWII. I did hear of someone named Lu Chin but no kung fu expert that I've spoken with (Doc Fai Wong, Tat-Mau Wong, the Lacey brothers. etc.) has ever heard of this person, if he ever existed.

One last thing, I find the combining of kung fu uniforms and a Japanese belt system to be quite odd. Richard Lee does have a similar uniform as well as small circular patches representing his organization, so I understand where the Moore's got their uniform system and animal patches on the belts. Karate is heavily influenced by the Chinese martial arts, so maybe that is why Al Moore decided to combine the two. Outside of the United States, one will never find this in Japan or China.

Welcome to MartialTalk, bro.

 

[isshinryuronin]

Welcome to MartialTalk, bro.

I saw that you were the latest poster on this old thread, "Well I feel like an idiot," and felt compelled to read it. Must admit I felt a little let down.

Could be an entertaining MA thread if the title was taken literally. I mean, we've all had moments...

 

[punisher73]

Quite a resurrection of the old thread!

 

[Yanli]

So I been taking this class for a while now and I thought it was kenpo. Although this "kenpo" seemed very different from what I was taught before.

I mentioned the term kenpo and Sifu looked at me kind of silly and asked "why do you always talk about kenpo ?" I replied "because that is what we are being taught here right?" He looked at me like, no. This is Shou Shu. I said oh, I guess I saw the wrong website then and thought this was that place.

From there everyone was laughing at me, but I laughed to, and then I told him "you know, that's ok, because it seems I accidentally found something else that is awesome."

I have confidence in this style. However I cannot lie and say that I am disappointed I had not been continuing my kenpo training. I will someday in the future complete it, but for now I wish to give Shou Shu a chance.

What do you guys know of this style? To me it feels like kenpo, but a little different, it feels more "Chinese" than kenpo did, I know kenpo is a Japanese art but it did come from white crane kung fu and has lots of Chinese Influence.

Anyway, what I am asking is, I didn't pay for ******** did I?

The one thing to always remember, "it is not your form, strength, and so on that makes a great fighter, "IT IS YOU". If the form feels right to you, and you see yourself growing, then that form is just as good as any form.