Weapons And How They Function

[kwaichang]

My teachers basically all taught hand techniques until you got near 3rd brown. Knife and gun techniques were reserved for the higher belts and with good reason.
People starting out have not yet the tools for basic defense and to add more dangerous situations only put more stress on them. Then too, the commitment of a student is clear if they're still around by the time they reach the brown belt rankings. A more rounded person and a better practicioner then can be shown more advanced techniques.

 

[tellner]

Arnisador, it's not just the complicated techniques that require some work. Most beginners I've worked with have real trouble doing basic hitting with any real authority. These days I try to take away the rattan and give them ax handles. That way they hit with the part of the weapon that's in line with the knuckles.

Come to think of it, not one teacher in a hundred addresses the most basic realistic knife attack. I see a lot of overhead "Psycho" attacks and plenty of wide slashes. Not many teach what may be the most common attack, grabbing the victim with one hand and repeatedly stabbing him in the groin. A little familiarity with things like that would make weapons defense a whole lot more meaningful.

 

[arnisador]

Yeah, it's a continual effort to get new students to hit with the edge aligned properly. Having them hit the BOB or something can help.

Not many teach what may be the most common attack, grabbing the victim with one hand and repeatedly stabbing him in the groin.

I did a segment on that at the last WMAA Camp I taught at. In fairness, the "Psycho" attack can fit into a walk-before-you-run approach to teaching knife defense...but too few people go past that sort of simple, punch-like attack.

 

[KenpoTex]

My teachers basically all taught hand techniques until you got near 3rd brown. Knife and gun techniques were reserved for the higher belts and with good reason.
People starting out have not yet the tools for basic defense and to add more dangerous situations only put more stress on them. Then too, the commitment of a student is clear if they're still around by the time they reach the brown belt rankings. A more rounded person and a better practicioner then can be shown more advanced techniques.

The Kenpo system I studied was similar, they didn't cover knife/gun defenses until black or 2nd black (and the one they taught suck anyway).

I don't agree with this particular philosophy. What happens if you get a gun stuck in your face while you're still a lowly green belt (or whatever)? It might be kind of nice to have a method for dealing with the attack. If the material you're teaching is simple and direct, there's no reason to make them wait for two years or however long it takes them to reach the advanced ranks. And speaking of stress, if the training induces stress, GREAT. It'll be a little more realistic that way. I start teaching my students gun and knife defense as soon as they've been around long enough to be able to throw strikes without falling over (no, that's not an exageration...)

 

[Deaf Smith]

Come to think of it, not one teacher in a hundred addresses the most basic realistic knife attack. I see a lot of overhead "Psycho" attacks and plenty of wide slashes. Not many teach what may be the most common attack, grabbing the victim with one hand and repeatedly stabbing him in the groin. A little familiarity with things like that would make weapons defense a whole lot more meaningful.

Truth! Might be the groin or the ribs, but grab-n-stab is far more realistic as for what happens on the street. The stabber does not even commit themselves in the attack like a overhead 'Psycho' attack, but it's actually far more effective and common.

Deaf

 

[tshadowchaser]

I have tried for years to get my students to ATTACK when they have a knife in their hands not dance and be pretty or elusive. When they do just make a “bull rush” attack it make a big difference on how the defender reacts.
It also makes a big difference when the defender rushes the knife holder in what the holder dose

 

[kwaichang]

It also makes a big difference when the defender rushes the knife holder in what the holder dose

Agreeed.
Jiujitsu practicioners are more comfortable going to the inside of an attack. I've only seen some Kempo instructors follow that line. It's quite effective as the attacker is used to people trying to get away.

 

[Darth F.Takeda]

Arnisador, it's not just the complicated techniques that require some work. Most beginners I've worked with have real trouble doing basic hitting with any real authority. These days I try to take away the rattan and give them ax handles. That way they hit with the part of the weapon that's in line with the knuckles.

Come to think of it, not one teacher in a hundred addresses the most basic realistic knife attack. I see a lot of overhead "Psycho" attacks and plenty of wide slashes. Not many teach what may be the most common attack, grabbing the victim with one hand and repeatedly stabbing him in the groin. A little familiarity with things like that would make weapons defense a whole lot more meaningful.

We do alot of training against Prison/Biker style knifeing and I am a total Prison documentary whore because you see some vicious assults on film and it gives you a glimpse into your potential enemy and what they tend to do, just like what you mentioned or Amping attacks and the facts that alot of these cons have alot of skill with extreme aggression.

Know your enemy, know yourself.