Weapon/Tool Development/Anthropology... Formerly Blocking useless?

[pdg]

the intrinsic difference between a mallet and a hammer is it purpose, hammers are hard designed to hit as hard as possible with out damaging the hammer, mallets are soft( er) designed to deform so not as to damage the thing being hit

So basically what you're saying is that it's the intended use that dictates the design, and influences which of the available materials is most suitable?

And that later, the properties of newly available materials can allow changes in the design

 

[jobo]

So basically what you're saying is that it's the intended use that dictates the design, and influences which of the available materials is most suitable?

And that later, the properties of newly available materials can allow changes in the design

well its an evolving spiral of use changing design and design changing use, the cowhide mallet hasnt changed much since the year dot, the hammer has gone through a,steady development of better matterial allowing better,design, the composite handle was a major and,fairly recent development, you can hit harder with out breaking the handle and it doesn't crack in the rain

 

[jobo]

I think it's less a matter of what they have access to, than population density. If the nearest tribe is 2 days away (with settlements) there's less conflict than if it's one day away. And the lower the density, the easier it is to subsist on a nomadic hunter/gatherer approach without conflict. I don't know the population progression in Europe when it moved toward agrarianism, but the population density was clearly centuries ahead of the Americas by the 1500's. That difference in population density (when you're looking at an area large enough to have competing societies) is likely a heavy driver of change.

i think that another chicken and egg argument, farming increases population density considerably, ergo when Europa people were nomadic/ hunter gatherers they had a low population density as that's all that life style would support,

 

[oftheherd1]

Are you guys really getting fired up over stone axes and the level of technology the people that made them had?

Just lol.


Btw tomahawk tends to refer to the design not the material, and they are still in use in militaries today.

I'm just wondering where was Martial Talk and the experts here when I was taking Anthropology 101, Physical Anthropology, Archeology, and yes, Extraterrestrial Life and Interstellar Travel? Oh I forgot Logic 101. Imagine the help I could have gotten! Not that any of my professors would have been likely to have been delighted at the concepts. But who would have cared about that?

Of course I wouldn't have cared about the beading advice: I couldn't fit that class into my curriculum. But please don't look down on me, I wanted to, honest.

 

[hoshin1600]

es but ALL societies where nomadic, yet did develop the technology to stop being nomadic

what are you rambling on about??? most of the South, North and Arctic continental tribes where not nomadic. at least not since they traveled (supposedly) over the ice bridge from Asia and Russia. the native american tribes in the mid west plains where nomadic because they followed the natural migration of the bison.
other then that no....not nomadic.
Newspaper Rock: Were Indian tribes nomadic?

"Once you build a mound, longhouse, or totem pole, you probably don't carry it around with you. Or leave it after you've invested so much time in it."

 

[pdg]

I'm just wondering where was Martial Talk and the experts here when I was taking Anthropology 101, Physical Anthropology, Archeology, and yes, Extraterrestrial Life and Interstellar Travel? Oh I forgot Logic 101. Imagine the help I could have gotten! Not that any of my professors would have been likely to have been delighted at the concepts. But who would have cared about that?

I'm no expert, I'm simply someone who likes to think/learn about stuff and come up with or modify theories.

I'm aware there are competing theories, and if you have any (yours or someone else's) then I'm eager to hear and consider.

Of course, I may dismiss them after considering - but it'd have to be quite outlandish for me to dismiss without consideration.

 

[jobo]

what are you rambling on about??? most of the South, North and Arctic continental tribes where not nomadic. at least not since they traveled (supposedly) over the ice bridge from Asia and Russia. the native american tribes in the mid west plains where nomadic because they followed the natural migration of the bison.
other then that no....not nomadic.
Newspaper Rock: Were Indian tribes nomadic?

"Once you build a mound, longhouse, or totem pole, you probably don't carry it around with you. Or leave it after you've invested so much time in it."

people are putting forward there being nomadic as an excuse for them being tech backwards, I've made the point that a lot were not , that being so, we need to look elsewhere for a reason they remained neolithic long long after most of the rest of the world progressed

 

[pdg]

people are putting forward there being nomadic as an excuse for them being tech backwards, I've made the point that a lot were not , that being so, we need to look elsewhere for a reason they remained neolithic long long after most of the rest of the world progressed

I'm not...

A tribe can be static yet have enough resources to support hunting and gathering and still have it's population controlled by conflict with neighbouring tribes.

While they're there like that, the impetus to advance isn't present or easily available.

 

[oftheherd1]

I'm no expert, I'm simply someone who likes to think/learn about stuff and come up with or modify theories.

I'm aware there are competing theories, and if you have any (yours or someone else's) then I'm eager to hear and consider.

Of course, I may dismiss them after considering - but it'd have to be quite outlandish for me to dismiss without consideration.

Indeed there are. And I don't agree with all of them either. And let me say I am not an expert. I just have a keen interest in anthropology, archeology, and linguistics, at a very amateur level. Like you, I like to think things through for myself. If I don't agree, I don't agree. And I may be wrong in my disagreement.

 

[JowGaWolf]

yes isolation can hold you back if its a few thousand people and your stuck on Easter island etal.
but the Americas were not in isolation, there were million of people on two continents, that much the same as saying Europe and,Asia were isolated, because they didn't have contact with the Americas and Australia

They were isolated. Show me one example of pre-columbian Native American culture that shows any influence from the Greeks, Celts, Chinese, Romans, Indians, Japanese or any of the other cultures that are found in Africa, Europe, or Asian that opened trade routes across various cultures.

The fact that Portuguese, Spanish, English, and French are Dominant in the Americas pretty much shows the effects that other cultures have on each other when they finally do meet. The Americas were isolated pre-columbian.

 

[jobo]

They were isolated. Show me one example of pre-columbian Native American culture that shows any influence from the Greeks, Celts, Chinese, Romans, Indians, Japanese or any of the other cultures that are found in Africa, Europe, or Asian that opened trade routes across various cultures.

The fact that Portuguese, Spanish, English, and French are Dominant in the Americas pretty much shows the effects that other cultures have on each other when they finally do meet. The Americas were isolated pre-columbian.

millions of people on two contents with a land bridge are not isolated, north could go south and south could go north, how on earth is that issolation. That's,aside from the fact that the Vikings made it over and you could walk across the ice to Russia if you wanted to, in fact sailing to Russia is no distance

nb the Chinese were effectively isolated for hundreds of years and made massive strides in technology in that time

nbb there is an emerging body of evidence that some of the med cultures made it over pre christ as well, its on maps that predate columbus by a long long time

 

[JowGaWolf]

That's a different span of area. France is slightly larger than the state of Texas.

I think people people forget this. The Americas are huge in terms of land. If we were to turn the U.S. into the same format as Europe. Many of the states would be separate countries with completely distinct cultures. The entire Native American population in all the U.S. was estimated to be 10 million. Considering the size of the Entire US, this is a really small population. Georgia currently has a population of 10 million. Now think of 10 million spread across the entire U.S., that's not 1 million for every state that we currently have.

 

[jobo]

I think people people forget this. The Americas are huge in terms of land. If we were to turn the U.S. into the same format as Europe. Many of the states would be separate countries with completely distinct cultures. The entire Native American population in all the U.S. was estimated to be 10 million. Considering the size of the Entire US, this is a really small population. Georgia currently has a population of 10 million. Now think of 10 million spread across the entire U.S., that's not 1 million for every state that we currently have.

Russia is huge as well, Asia is a lot bigger, they still managed to stop being stone aged

 

[pdg]

Russia is huge as well, Asia is a lot bigger, they still managed to stop being stone aged

Yes, Asia is huge, but it's geographically subdivided. And what is contained within the modern political border of Russia is huge too - that is an area that has less topographical divisions and what is there?

Nomadic or semi nomadic tribes...

Fine, they have shoes and AK-47s, but they travel on horses and live in huts.

The only reason they left the stone age is because they were carried.


Edit to add: It's not like they've not been given access to more modern technologies, but the necessity to adopt them isn't there.

 

[JowGaWolf]

I missed this earlier. Nothing in the contiguous US really compares to the Alps and Himalayas. The closest you get would be the Rocky Mountains and their neighbors. The mountains further East would never have been an obstacle to travel. Anyone in average shape can hike over one of those, and the weather in them is only marginally harsher than the surrounding area. Moving west, the mountains created much more of an obstacle, especially in the Winter, but you're talking a distance between that takes the better part of a day (16 hours) to drive at highway speeds.

Don't forget about the deserts that we have.

 

[jobo]

Yes, Asia is huge, but it's geographically subdivided. And what is contained within the modern political border of Russia is huge too - that is an area that has less topographical divisions and what is there?

Nomadic or semi nomadic tribes...

Fine, they have shoes and AK-47s, but they travel on horses and live in huts.

The only reason they left the stone age is because they were carried.


Edit to add: It's not like they've not been given access to more modern technologies, but the necessity to adopt them isn't there.

you think Russia doesn't have electricity and,antibiotics ?

 

[pdg]

Oh, and because it was mentioned - China is quite large too. That's modern China...

But the areas where technological advances were made are relatively small and bordered by obstacles of one form or another - after those advancements were made was when the political expansion of borders happened.

Look into the sparsely populated areas of China - more huts.

 

[jobo]

Don't forget about the deserts that we have.

yes don't forget Egypt didnt have,desserts to contend with, oh wait!

 

[pdg]

you think Russia doesn't have electricity and,antibiotics ?

So do the Americas now. They've come a long way recently

 

[jobo]

Oh, and because it was mentioned - China is quite large too. That's modern China...

But the areas where technological advances were made are relatively small and bordered by obstacles of one form or another - after those advancements were made was when the political expansion of borders happened.

Look into the sparsely populated areas of China - more huts.

but huts are a major advance on hide tents, china has always been pretty big and more or less match with in its current borders