We cant be taken to the ground

[drop bear]

Don't let your opponent to get both of your legs.

Lol.

The best way to defend against double underhooks is not to let them get double underhooks.

Otherwise there are now a few systems that focus on defending grappling by standing up.

 

[guy b.]

This is an interesting area to consider. Different groups approach this problem differently. Some clubs persist in believing that if your stand-up game is good enough, that's all you need. On the other extreme, some totally embrace grappling, train their own brand of grappling and take on the grapplers at their own game. I take a middle of the road approach and favor the use of a well tested "anti-grappling" curriculum. Now before some of you get all high and mighty on the subject, let me clarify.

I think all of these approaches are mistaken. Wing chun is what it is and I don't think you should attempt to change it by introducing grappling. Likewise it is foolish to believe that grappling will never happen. It can and does happen often in real fights.

The best approach is to learn grappling properly. For wing chun the best addition is bjj, because standing grappling which might interfere with the standing approach of wing chun, is not emphasised. Judo also integrates reasonably well because it is a leg and hip grappling approach which doesn't involve excessive upper body postural change. However any standup grappling is contrary to the wing chun approach if not treated very carefully.

 

[drop bear]

Standing grappling is contrary to standing striking. Think muay thai and judo.

If i was to adopt a judo position in a clinch with far hips i would get kneed apart. But to defend the knee by going close hips. I am set up to be judo thrown.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

The best way to defend against double underhooks is not to let them get double underhooks.

The best way to avoid under hook is to raise your arm straight up. But since this is a WC thread, all the anti-clinch suggestion may be considered as "not pure WC".

 

[JowGaWolf]

The best way to avoid under hook is to raise your arm straight up. But since this is a WC thread, all the anti-clinch suggestion may be considered as "not pure WC".

Very true. In that case I wouldn't know what the "WC solution" would be. I don't take it, and I've never seen any of their guys use a "WC solution" successfully against a take down in competitions.

 

[drop bear]

The best way to avoid under hook is to raise your arm straight up. But since this is a WC thread, all the anti-clinch suggestion may be considered as "not pure WC".

If we get caught in an undertook. We chop the throat. Wizzer and re feed an arm. Which you could probably squeeze into chun if you squinted.

I saw a demo once where a cross face was something sau.

 

[Andrew Green]

Don't let your opponent to get both of your legs.

Greco-Roman Wrestling doesn't allow grabbing the legs at all and people that have spent their entire lives training to not get taken down still do in it. Judo no longer allows double leg attacks and people still fall down. Single leg attacks are more common then double leg attacks in freestyle wrestling.

 

[Jake104]

The best way to avoid under hook is to raise your arm straight up. But since this is a WC thread, all the anti-clinch suggestion may be considered as "not pure WC".

So in Wing Chun we do Poon Sao (rolling hands)? So you got two guys doing a drill with both arms connected and rolling back and forth? They're in a somewhat close range kind of in and out of striking and clinch range? So maybe a half step in, is clinch range, and a half step out is striking range? So, why in world would WC focus and train in such a way if its goal was to avoid the clinch? Why would we even consider calling WC a close range combat system if it refuses to deal with the "clinch" or takedowns? What do we think happens in close range? I'm going to out on a limb here, and I'm going to say in close range the clinch and grappling happens? So is WC a close range art or not? Maybe it's a close quarters art? Like phone booths and bathroom stalls? Gee I wonder what the WC solution might be?

 

[guy b.]

Standing grappling is contrary to standing striking. Think muay thai and judo.

If i was to adopt a judo position in a clinch with far hips i would get kneed apart. But to defend the knee by going close hips. I am set up to be judo thrown.

Depends on the standing striking approach. Muay thai doesn't go well with judo. Wing chun does go reasonably well.

Judo is not necessarily far hips. Someone desperate not to be judo thrown stands far hips.

 

[yak sao]

Maybe it's a close quarters art? Like phone booths and bathroom stalls? Gee I wonder what the WC solution might be?

Oh wow!!!! That's it!!!!! WC is short for Water Closet.....it all makes sense now

 

[Marnetmar]

All WCers can be taken to the ground except me because I'm Abe Lincoln and am an incredibly heavy marble sculpture that may or may not be bolted into the ground. This is me after winning my first fight around 1865:

I welcome any and all challengers at any time. I'm located in Washington, DC. Do your worst, grapplers!

 

[drop bear]

All WCers can be taken to the ground except me because I'm Abe Lincoln and am an incredibly heavy marble sculpture that may or may not be bolted into the ground. This is me after winning my first fight around 1865:

I welcome any and all challengers at any time. I'm located in Washington, DC. Do your worst, grapplers!

I would but I owe the guy for beating all those vampires.

 

[yak sao]

I didn't know Honest Abe was a WC man. I learn so much on this forum.
But did you know that he was a very skilled wrestler? He had a record of something like 300 and 1

 

[Jake104]

Oh wow!!!! That's it!!!!! WC is short for Water Closet.....it all makes sense now

I have had some tough battles in the Water Closet. Usually it's issue with maintaining my center line. But sometimes it's too much forward or I mean rearward energy and I blow through the opponent and hit the backboard. I always win cause I'm a close quarters expert...I think I need to eat more fiber?

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

If we get caught in an undertook. We chop the throat. Wizzer and re feed an arm. Which you could probably squeeze into chun if you squinted.

IMO, when your opponent uses "under hook" to press down your shoulder, your other hand may not be able to reach to his body. So you should train how to use the same arm to deal with your opponent under hook arm.

The best way to deal with an

- under hook is to use over hook to "crack" on your opponent's elbow joint.
- over hook is to use under hook to "press" down on your opponent's shoulder joint.

 

[yak sao]

I have had some tough battles in the Water Closet. Usually it's issue with maintaining my center line. But sometimes it's too much forward or I mean rearward energy and I blow through the opponent and hit the backboard. I always win cause I'm a close quarters expert...I think I need to eat more fiber?

I don't know, but after that post I sure don't want to grapple with you

 

[Andrew Green]

IMO, when your opponent uses "under hook" to press down your shoulder, your other hand may not be able to reach to his body. So you should train how to use the same arm to deal with your opponent under hook arm.

The best way to deal with an

- under hook is to use over hook to "crack" on your opponent's elbow joint.
- over hook is to use under hook to "press" down on your opponent's shoulder joint.

That's not how under hooks work... If someone is using a under hook to press down on your shoulder they likely don't know what they are doing.

There is only one way to train against under hooks, and that is to use them and train with people that know how to use them. And most importantly do it live

 

[Jake104]

IMO, when your opponent uses "under hook" to press down your shoulder, your other hand may not be able to reach to his body. So you should train how to use the same arm to deal with your opponent under hook arm.

The best way to deal with an

- under hook is to use over hook to "crack" on your opponent's elbow joint.
- over hook is to use under hook to "press" down on your opponent's shoulder joint.

Yup! If underhooked, a simple elbow down overhook (since you're already in that position by default) as my teachers call it with "pocketing". Which is trapping the opponents arm with an overhook and dropping hand to pocket and a simple turn will hyperextend or possibly break arm. At the least, you'll have control and opponent off balance weighted and readied to be thrown.

The chop to the neck may not happen if the opponent is already transitioning underhook into throw or takedown. Chances are underhook is setting up one or the other? And.......... For those whoooo...... Might say that's not WC. Dropping the arm being attacked is quicker and more efficient then using the other hand? Why? Cause, When underhook happens you're being set up and most likely you're being uprooted and, or hip spine alignment is broken? So your move is first to maintain your structure or position to throw a half way decent strike to the throat? Well, that's your move. By then the underhooker has already made two-three moves and your face is planted nicely on the concrete? So too late! So I'm saying if I get underhooked I attack right away with what I described earlier in this post.

 

[Jake104]

I'll ad another 2 cents. If I get underhooked cross armed (right arm to right arm) same 'idea' applies but now I have free hand (left) to assist in pushing the hips out from underneath my opponent with my tan Sao, hopefully preventing me from being thrown on my face. Now I have throwers back and I sinch in my choke or heun ma and I have a throw of my own. Cause I have completely collapsed him and he fell into my arms. It's kinda like magic. If WC is direct and efficient, then everybody should agree with this? We attack the attack. Some get it twisted and think this means flowery hand movements? No I attack at contact. Ideally my attack starts immediately once there's a bridge. And I'm not talking techniques here.

Wow. I have good coaches (DTE). I'am amazed I even know this stuff! Just goes to show what good teaching and understanding does! They're miracle workers cause up till this last year I had 0 grappling experience. I'm not even learning 'grappling' technically. But I'll say it again if WC is a close range fighting system it better have these awnsers. Otherwise, well.....just look at the countless YouTube grappler vs Wing Chun videos. Plenty of throat striking going on with not so very good results.

 

[GiYu - Todd]

Im sure youve heard people mention it before. They practice Chun fu and when asked about ground fighting they defend by saying they cant be taken to the ground.

We all know this isnt really true.

I like the saying the fight starts standing up, keep it there - the fight ends on the ground, take it there.

Im wondering what techniques you practice to keep it standing up?

Dean.

If an art form can keep you from being taken to the ground, why not take one that prevents you from ever being hit and makes you dodge bullets too. That would be awesome!

When someone tries to take me down, I widen my base and sink my hips. I'll also try to get good control of my opponent and keep them off balance so they're less effective. Of course there's no guarantee... but you can tilt the odd a bit in your favor.

If someone tried to bum-rush you to the ground, having good timing and sidestepping the rush while guiding them past you might be helpful (assuming you see it coming).