WC - how to fight a boxer

[marques]

To effectively use the knee kick you really should be able to handle the hands exchange.

Probably right. Knee stomp doesn't KO fighters. But while a boxer is dealing with it I have my chance to punch. When he starts boxing again I may grapple. I can punch and need to punch, but I will always avoid the opponent's 'comfort zone'. That is my point.

Additionally, knee stomp doesn't KO fighters because both are usually well trained and it is not meant to break the knee. A straight knee stump in a stand-up guy (self-defence scenario)... I guess it has a different effect.

 

[drop bear]

Probably right. Knee stomp doesn't KO fighters. But while a boxer is dealing with it I have my chance to punch. When he starts boxing again I may grapple. I can punch and need to punch, but I will always avoid the opponent's 'comfort zone'. That is my point.

Additionally, knee stomp doesn't KO fighters because both are usually well trained and it is not meant to break the knee. A straight knee stump in a stand-up guy (self-defence scenario)... I guess it has a different effect.

OK. I am not saying don't kick. You just have to be able to deal with his hands as a priority.

Just like takedowns I can strike grapplers all I want so long as I can stuff the takedown attempt.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

OK. I am not saying don't kick. You just have to be able to deal with his hands as a priority.

In long fist the way that you train "chain kicks - knee stomp" is to look at your opponent's eyes, the moment that he looks down, the moment that you punch his face.

Kick low and punch high is the main strategy used in the long fist system. The low kick is mainly used for "set up".

 

[DanT]

You fight a boxer better than he fights you and you win. You need to be smart and ruthless.

Some basic Wing Chun techniques:

Straight Punches
Chop / Backfist
Lap Da
Tan Da
Pak Da
Gan Da
Front Kick
Side Kick
Roundhouse Kick
Stomp Kick
Elbows
Knees

So you hit your opponent with these and ideally maim / knockout them so they cannot fight any more.

That's how you beat whoever.

 

[TMA17]

 

[marques]

You just have to be able to deal with his hands as a priority.

My first priority will avoid any punch, keeping kicking distance. Eventually, it fails...

Then, and only then, my priority is dealing with is punches, but just in transition to clinch (or ground maybe) or kicking distance again (or kicking/knee-ing/elbowing/punching from clinch/very close distance).

Ok, I need to deal with his hands, but not as a boxer, neither from punching range.

 

[geezer]

No. To effectively use the knee kick you really should be able to handle the hands exchange. I have never really seen that kick pulled off in a street fight...

Why do you suppose that is?

...My guess is that it has to do with the way people tend to rush right in on the street. Or that not too many people train that lead-leg knee kick. ... Because it is a really quick and distracting technique, especially when you have hard soled shoes on.

The way I use that knee-kick off the lead leg is more like a boxer's jab. You hang back just out of punching range, ducking and covering while firing rapid lead leg knee shots until your opponent drops his guard, and then make your move. But essentially, that's a dueling game. Like UFC. Not what you'd use against a brawler moving in like a steamroller.

 

[drop bear]

Why do you suppose that is?

...My guess is that it has to do with the way people tend to rush right in on the street. Or that not too many people train that lead-leg knee kick. ... Because it is a really quick and distracting technique, especially when you have hard soled shoes on.

The way I use that knee-kick off the lead leg is more like a boxer's jab. You hang back just out of punching range, ducking and covering while firing rapid lead leg knee shots until your opponent drops his guard, and then make your move. But essentially, that's a dueling game. Like UFC. Not what you'd use against a brawler moving in like a steamroller.

There is probably always something better you could have thrown. A teep has more range. A round kick is more likley to bust a knee.

 

[geezer]

Kick low and punch high is the main strategy used in the long fist system. The low kick is mainly used for "set up".

Exactly the same in WC, especially when fighting a longer range fighter. Because even if a boxer has longer reach, your leg is probably longer than his arm.

 

[geezer]

There is probably always something better you could have thrown. A teep has more range. A round kick is more likley to bust a knee.

Not trying for more range, or going all out to break a leg. Just jabbing at that knee every time he sets his weight on it to punch. ...a distraction to make an opening. Or like John Wang said, "a set up".

When you move in, like you said, you still have to be able to handle his hands. Otherwise, you better run away!!!

 

[TMA17]

Guy I know said this and made sense to me. It’s also inline with what others like Adam Chan have said.

“Wing Chun is just like boxing in that you can't just stand there in front of the opponent - although frankly most street confrontations kick off at Wing Chun range - if you are squaring up against people, that's a social problem (you should be talking your way out - walking away) - assaults kick off close range - I've trained with a former professional boxer and Wing Chun works - you just have to understand it. Attack immediately, aggressively, and have the skills, and you will do fine. Boxers like to play for range so you need to stuff their range (Seg Wai - I eat your position). Don't be afraid to step to them (you need to go in the house to fight the fire). Also, you are not fighting pro boxers out there - most street fights will be against people who are not trained.”

 

[TMA17]

““WC is a "second action system" - that is, I let them start but cut the angle and beat them to the punch - literally. This is why you need it to be reflexive - and the footwork is utlra-aggressive - I step into the opponent's sing or even jab (don't be afraid to be hit) - our style is very disruptive to most other styles, which anticipate and are built around the "victim" backing away and trying to get outside the range. We walk right past their range into our half-arm range, which is too close for them (outside elbow range, inside jab range) - too close for thinking, so you need to develop reflexes to do your fighting for you. Very aggressive reflexes which find (bridge) then strip away or angle off the opponents guard (triangle) -- once we find our hole, we step in (take position) and strike the head. Rinse and repeat with a very fluid response based on the opponent's ability to recover/respond/.”

 

[wckf92]

““WC is a "second action system" - that is, I let them start but cut the angle and beat them to the punch - literally. This is why you need it to be reflexive - and the footwork is utlra-aggressive - I step into the opponent's sing or even jab (don't be afraid to be hit) - our style is very disruptive to most other styles, which anticipate and are built around the "victim" backing away and trying to get outside the range. We walk right past their range into our half-arm range, which is too close for them (outside elbow range, inside jab range) - too close for thinking, so you need to develop reflexes to do your fighting for you. Very aggressive reflexes which find (bridge) then strip away or angle off the opponents guard (triangle) -- once we find our hole, we step in (take position) and strike the head. Rinse and repeat with a very fluid response based on the opponent's ability to recover/respond/.”

who are you quoting!?!?!?

 

[Martial D]

““WC is a "second action system" - that is, I let them start but cut the angle and beat them to the punch - literally. This is why you need it to be reflexive - and the footwork is utlra-aggressive - I step into the opponent's sing or even jab (don't be afraid to be hit) - our style is very disruptive to most other styles, which anticipate and are built around the "victim" backing away and trying to get outside the range. We walk right past their range into our half-arm range, which is too close for them (outside elbow range, inside jab range) - too close for thinking, so you need to develop reflexes to do your fighting for you. Very aggressive reflexes which find (bridge) then strip away or angle off the opponents guard (triangle) -- once we find our hole, we step in (take position) and strike the head. Rinse and repeat with a very fluid response based on the opponent's ability to recover/respond/.”

The problem is usually with the first bit. It's unlikely that you will react fast enough before getting hit, especially if you are holding a WC center guard.

It's best to always be first in my experience.

 

[TMA17]

who are you quoting!?!?!?

Someone I was talking to that has been a WC practitioner for 40 years.

 

[wckf92]

Someone I was talking to that has been a WC practitioner for 40 years.

Ok thx. I saw your quotations and was wondering who...

 

[TMA17]

I was doing a some research and it’s interesting how once the Chinese came in contact with westerners, they were impressed with western boxing. Many sailors defeated the Kung Fu masters of that time. It was hard for many Chinese to admit that their martial arts did not stand up against western boxing. The article below isn’t the greatest but a simple google search on Chinese and Western boxing will pull up many articles on the history and influence of Western Boxing and Traditional MA.

Zha Ka's Guide to the Good Life | FIGHTLAND

“Out of all the fighting systems he encountered, though, the one that called to him most was Western boxing. Zha Ka began training in Beijing and Guangdong, China. The combination of a boxing and shuai jiao background opened his eyes to what a well-rounded fighter could be. As a professional bodyguard, shuai jiao was important, but a striking art like boxing was essential. Now, with over 20 years of boxing experience, he openly professes his belief that Western boxing is the best martial art he's ever learned, and he has a few reasons why. Western boxing provides a strong base from which to launch your attack, he says. No kicks means easier balance. Throwing your fists is a natural instinct in fighting. A boxer will have the fastest hands compared to any other discipline, so if your natural reaction in a fight is to use your hands, it makes sense to train them the most.”

 

[TMA17]

This is good.

 

[drop bear]

Guy I know said this and made sense to me. It’s also inline with what others like Adam Chan have said.

“Wing Chun is just like boxing in that you can't just stand there in front of the opponent - although frankly most street confrontations kick off at Wing Chun range - if you are squaring up against people, that's a social problem (you should be talking your way out - walking away) - assaults kick off close range - I've trained with a former professional boxer and Wing Chun works - you just have to understand it. Attack immediately, aggressively, and have the skills, and you will do fine. Boxers like to play for range so you need to stuff their range (Seg Wai - I eat your position). Don't be afraid to step to them (you need to go in the house to fight the fire). Also, you are not fighting pro boxers out there - most street fights will be against people who are not trained.”

If the street fight starts at wing chun range that s quite often your own fault.

The issue is at that range you cant stop a punch with any reliability. Doesnt really matter what you train.

 

[drop bear]

You are trying to fight movement with counter punching. So you attack with one hand and defend with one hand.

A good boxer is attacking with two hands and defending with footwork and head movement.

Law of averages are against you.

If you counter punch you have to be able to see the shot and address it. If you move defensively you don't. You can punch off line without any knowledge of what they are going to fire and some strikes will miss. Now you are not addressing every punch coming your way and have more capacity to adress the ones you want to adress.

The cover movement also performs this job. It is positioned where the punch will probably come so again you are not addressing every punch.

At speed you can't really see punches coming so using these tactics work better and better as the contact heats up.