Walking away

[Flying Crane]

A teacher certainly has the right to make whatever conditions they like, so long as they don't violate local laws. An instructor can decide he will only teach left handers who promise to memorize every Bob Dylan lyric and never watch Game of Thrones or play the ukulele.

Likewise, the rest of us have a right to express our opinion that such decisions and conditions are stupid and reflect badly on the instructor.

In cases like this, that is exactly my opinion.

I can envision circumstances where the "I need you to dedicate yourself completely to what I'm teaching without distractions" argument might hold some water. In 99.9% of the cases I see where the argument is made, those circumstances don't apply.

If the teacher required that all students spend 30+ hours training every week because he was training an exclusive team for world championships, that would be one thing. In that case, he would also "fire" a student who spent too much time playing cello, watching tv, or taking care of family to be able to put in the necessary effort. In cases like this, that very rarely happens. It's only when a student wants to learn another martial art that territoriality raises its ugly head.

Also I agree with DB that an instructor who only offers classes twice a week looks like a jerk when he tells the student that training elsewhere on the other 5 days shows a lack of dedication.

A teacher might also have a valid complaint if a student insisted on coming to class and doing things from his other arts rather than what was being taught currently. In that case the appropriate demand would not be to "stop training other stuff" but "stop doing that other stuff in my class." In any case, Headhunter denies doing so.



If I'm recalling the previous thread, this was the instructor who collected dues from the OP for 6 months without giving him any instruction while he had the OP run classes for him? In that case, I'm going to suggest that it's not the OP who lacks dedication.

I remember the other thread and I supported Mr. headhunter on that one. From what he said, that arrangement seemed out of balance.

He comes here with this new story and maybe he is right. A lot of people have jumped up to support him and tell him yeah, that teacher is an unreasonable jerk and you are better off without him, good riddance.

Now, go back and read my earlier post in this thread, #30. If his instructor had come here and posted that story, I guarantee that just as many people would jump up to support him and would say yeah, that student was an unreasonable jerk and you are better off without him, good riddance.

And these two stories could be describing the same event.

So, there is an issue of perspective, and we are hearing one side of the story, of which there are at least three. Who is right? I dunno. I don't care, even.

Yeah, some teachers can be unreasonable jerks. I've had one or two of them at times. And yeah, some students can be unreasonable jerks. Perhaps I've been that student at times.

When it is clear the teacher is no longer the right teacher for the student, it is time to part ways, regardless of whose perspective is closer to the actual truth.

But, I will always defend a teacher's right to impose conditions on his instruction as long as he isn't breaking laws, and I will always defend a student's right to go elsewhere, and even to speak up about what a jerk the teacher was. But I also defend a teachers right to speak up about what a jerk the student was, too. It really is a two way street here, and we are getting one perspective on what happened.

The more I read Mr. headhunters comments on this, the more I see some real issues that might support the teachers side of things. Mr. HH has said he has trained at hundreds of gyms. Well, I take that as exaggeration, but it paints a picture of someone who is perpetually distracted by other things and can't stay focused on any one thing long enough to make real progress. So I could support a teacher telling him, you are spread out too thinly, your training here is deteriorating, I don't believe your heart is really in this and you want to do other things, so if you can't bring yourself to focus on the training here, then go elsewhere, where your heart is.

Maybe the discussion wasn't as clean as it might have been, maybe that was the teachers fault or maybe it was Mr. HH's fault, or maybe they both escalated it.

We'll never know, we only have one side of the story.

 

[Touch Of Death]

Well then I've decided to walk away from my kenpo club now. The instructor had a problem I was training in other styles and said to me he didn't think I was showing enough dedication to kenpo....which makes no sense since even though I'm training Muay Thai and bjj as well I'm still attending kenpo twice a week as well so I'm not even missing those classes to train other places. Then he basically said If I want to stay at that club I had to dedicate myself exclusively to the kenpo club and stop training anywhere else.

Well as soon as that was said my choice was made and I said so because I'm not going to be blackmailed into staying somewhere and giving up training at places I enjoy being at. I may be one of his black belts but that doesn't make me his property. It's a shame but that's life I'll see if I can find another kenpo school that works with my schedule but if not I'm happy with the amount of training I'm doing.

Without reading the other responses, it makes perfect sense to me. Kenpo is a System. These other styles are not part of the package. Even learning techniques from a Kenpo school down the road, won't help you. Learn their system, or go. It is that simple. When you have your own Kenpo school, change it up. It's your school.

 

[Touch Of Death]

That is hilarious.

I am pretty sure nobody who trains 2 days a week gets to make a comment on dedication.

Dedication to the material, Holmes.

 

[Touch Of Death]

How did he know you were training in other systems?

He can tell; it's Kenpo magic, we pick up along the way.

 

[Touch Of Death]

Personally I think your better off without him.

So, if I was training at your school, and just started doing what ever, it is OK?

 

[JR 137]

So, if I was training at your school, and just started doing what ever, it is OK?

If you were at my school and I told you what you were and weren't allowed to do outside of my school (so long as it didn't effect the day to day stuff at my school), would that be ok?

My school's first order of business - no fornicating the night before class. It allegedly decreases physical performance. People need to be 100% when they get to class.

 

[Flying Crane]

If you were at my school and I told you what you were and weren't allowed to do outside of my school (so long as it didn't effect the day to day stuff at my school), would that be ok?

My school's first order of business - no fornicating the night before class. It allegedly decreases physical performance. People need to be 100% when they get to class.

Well now I know for certain I can't be part of your school.

 

[Touch Of Death]

If you were at my school and I told you what you were and weren't allowed to do outside of my school (so long as it didn't effect the day to day stuff at my school), would that be ok?

My school's first order of business - no fornicating the night before class. It allegedly decreases physical performance. People need to be 100% when they get to class.

I am saying his teacher can tell he is picking up bad habits that do not fit with his system, it is obvious, and annoying.

 

[Tony Dismukes]

So, if I was training at your school, and just started doing what ever, it is OK?

The OP has stated that he was not bringing what he learned from other arts into his Kenpo class. No one is questioning the right of the teacher to dictate what is practiced in his class. We're expressing disdain for the idea that a teacher can limit what the student does outside of his class.

 

[Touch Of Death]

The OP has stated that he was not bringing what he learned from other arts into his Kenpo class. No one is questioning the right of the teacher to dictate what is practiced in his class. We're expressing disdain for the idea that a teacher can limit what the student does outside of his class.

And I am defending that teacher, because, that stuff creeps in. Its creepy, like that.

 

[Flying Crane]

The OP has stated that he was not bringing what he learned from other arts into his Kenpo class. No one is questioning the right of the teacher to dictate what is practiced in his class. We're expressing disdain for the idea that a teacher can limit what the student does outside of his class.

In spirit, I agree. But I have a strong suspicion that there is more to the story, even if Mr. Headhunter believes he is telling the story in a completely accurate way.

 

[Flying Crane]

I am saying his teacher can tell he is picking up bad habits that do not fit with his system, it is obvious, and annoying.

This is very true, I have experienced it myself as a student. The way I was throwing punches in one class was negatively influencing how I was throwing punches in the other class because the method was similar, kind of, but different. And those minor details actually did make all the difference in the world. Regardless of which class I was in, my punches were always being corrected, either more this way or more that way, because I was right between the two methods and that meant it was wrong for both methods.

I find it kind of weird that so often people want to dictate to the teacher how they train. Sometimes the teacher actually does know what he is talking about, and if a student is not prepared to follow the instruction, then he really should go elsewhere.

 

[Headhunter]

I remember the other thread and I supported Mr. headhunter on that one. From what he said, that arrangement seemed out of balance.

He comes here with this new story and maybe he is right. A lot of people have jumped up to support him and tell him yeah, that teacher is an unreasonable jerk and you are better off without him, good riddance.

Now, go back and read my earlier post in this thread, #30. If his instructor had come here and posted that story, I guarantee that just as many people would jump up to support him and would say yeah, that student was an unreasonable jerk and you are better off without him, good riddance.

And these two stories could be describing the same event.

So, there is an issue of perspective, and we are hearing one side of the story, of which there are at least three. Who is right? I dunno. I don't care, even.

Yeah, some teachers can be unreasonable jerks. I've had one or two of them at times. And yeah, some students can be unreasonable jerks. Perhaps I've been that student at times.

When it is clear the teacher is no longer the right teacher for the student, it is time to part ways, regardless of whose perspective is closer to the actual truth.

But, I will always defend a teacher's right to impose conditions on his instruction as long as he isn't breaking laws, and I will always defend a student's right to go elsewhere, and even to speak up about what a jerk the teacher was. But I also defend a teachers right to speak up about what a jerk the student was, too. It really is a two way street here, and we are getting one perspective on what happened.

The more I read Mr. headhunters comments on this, the more I see some real issues that might support the teachers side of things. Mr. HH has said he has trained at hundreds of gyms. Well, I take that as exaggeration, but it paints a picture of someone who is perpetually distracted by other things and can't stay focused on any one thing long enough to make real progress. So I could support a teacher telling him, you are spread out too thinly, your training here is deteriorating, I don't believe your heart is really in this and you want to do other things, so if you can't bring yourself to focus on the training here, then go elsewhere, where your heart is.

Maybe the discussion wasn't as clean as it might have been, maybe that was the teachers fault or maybe it was Mr. HH's fault, or maybe they both escalated it.

We'll never know, we only have one side of the story.

Um I've trained in hundreds of gyms because I moved around a lot...and if I couldn't focus on anything I very much doubt I'd be a black belt would I...I'm hardly spreading myself to thin I'm doing 2 other classes...and I am focused on what the class is teaching I listen and am respectful to what's said and don't contradict based on anything else I hear

 

[Headhunter]

I am saying his teacher can tell he is picking up bad habits that do not fit with his system, it is obvious, and annoying.

I don't see how me doing Jiu Jitsu will give me bad habits for karate....

 

[Headhunter]

The OP has stated that he was not bringing what he learned from other arts into his Kenpo class. No one is questioning the right of the teacher to dictate what is practiced in his class. We're expressing disdain for the idea that a teacher can limit what the student does outside of his class.

Agreed if I was going into class and throwing guys down and arm baring them and putting them in triangles etc then yeah I'd get that but I'm not. I don't even mention any other training I do unless I'm talking to people after class and they ask

 

[marques]

Well then I've decided to walk away from my kenpo club now. The instructor had a problem I was training in other styles and said to me he didn't think I was showing enough dedication to kenpo....which makes no sense since even though I'm training Muay Thai and bjj as well I'm still attending kenpo twice a week as well so I'm not even missing those classes to train other places. Then he basically said If I want to stay at that club I had to dedicate myself exclusively to the kenpo club and stop training anywhere else.

Well as soon as that was said my choice was made and I said so because I'm not going to be blackmailed into staying somewhere and giving up training at places I enjoy being at. I may be one of his black belts but that doesn't make me his property. It's a shame but that's life I'll see if I can find another kenpo school that works with my schedule but if not I'm happy with the amount of training I'm doing.

How things change in a few months, uhh! Hope you find somewhere else (in case the other 2 styles are still not enough ).

 

[Headhunter]

Without reading the other responses, it makes perfect sense to me. Kenpo is a System. These other styles are not part of the package. Even learning techniques from a Kenpo school down the road, won't help you. Learn their system, or go. It is that simple. When you have your own Kenpo school, change it up. It's your school.

I am learning their system i did everything they tell me to do and practice what they tell me. What I'm doing is no different to a guy who does karate and plays football. They're totally different things which makes no difference. It's funny because I'm known for being the karate guy at Muay Thai because I use my karate stance because that's what I'm comftoable with and everyone's fine with it.

 

[hoshin1600]

I find it kind of weird that so often people want to dictate to the teacher how they train. Sometimes the teacher actually does know what he is talking about

and sometimes after black belt the student knows what they are doing, and what they want and the teacher should allow the student to develop without trying to turn the student into a photo copy of the teacher.

 

[Headhunter]

and sometimes after black belt the student knows what they are doing, and what they want and the teacher should allow the student to develop without trying to turn the student into a photo copy of the teacher.

Absolutely...I mean I'm not into doing nothing but kenpo for the rest of my life. I want to see what else is out there try new things and fact is the reason I started Muay Thai was because at our kenpo club there's barely any fitness work and 0 sparring at all..I've been there nearly a year and no ones sparred once so that's why I started that. Jiu Jitsu I started simply because a friend invited me to try it out.

 

[hoshin1600]

So, if I was training at your school, and just started doing what ever, it is OK?

actually yes.
its not my job to turn everyone into little robots. if you have experience (and you personally do) i would allow you to do what feels right to you. i as a coach will give you advise on how to improve and if you choose to do it another way thats fine. its your life and your art.