Wado-ryu watered down version of shotokan ?

[chinto]

It could also be though that the school just sucks. I have a friend who started out in Wado when he was a kid. He thought it was a joke. Recently he looked to see if the place was still in business and found a website and some YouTube vids. I took a look at them and he was right, the place is a joke. Far too many karate schools are.

So I would tell the OP that if the school he's been visiting looks anything like this, then he should run away fast:

ya.. not sure what that all was supposed to be! but what I saw coming from people wearing black belts was sad.

 

[SPX]

Perhaps you'll enjoy this "Black Belt Extravaganza" from the school's adult instructors:

 

[SPX]

In keeping with my comment that I don't immediately dismiss all flashy, XMA kind of stuff, I feel like I should post something that is a GOOD example of such things.

This girl is awesome. Maybe David Deaton should bring her in as a consultant or something.

 

[jks9199]

Let's pull away from tearing apart one school for what we see or don't see in their demos. It's moving off the original topic, which was about the relationship between Wado-ryu and Shotokan.

 

[SPX]

*in my Maximus voice*

Are you not entertained?

And Audrie Donihoo does have some legit skills.

 

[Sojobo]

However, for one thing, I never totally felt like I was fitting in or clicking with the rest of the group. With the exception of the purple belt who just kind of kept to himself, I was the youngest by over a decade and also the only person who hadn't been there for years. It would've been nice to have some people kind of at my level to bond with. Also, and this was very important to me, I went out of my way to try to find some guys there who wanted to get together outside of class and train. Doing stuff in class is great, but it's only an hour three times a week or whatever. I knew that if I was really going to get up to speed and understand this art, then I would need a partner who would be as interested as I was in doing drills, sparring and just generally "comparing notes" outside of the dojo. I even went so far as to set up an Internet forum where everyone could talk outside of class and perhaps organize meetups and so forth but not one even person bothered to check it out. I admit that was really disappointing to me.

Too bad I can't go old school and have some master take me under their wing and train me Mr. Miyagi style.

I think “fitting in” to a dojo is an important part of Budo.

In our group we have students ranging from 14 – 55 and we all get on very well. The older members tend to take the youngsters under their wing but that said, some of our young guys and girls are technically better than some of us oldies – so there is a reciprocation there of sorts.

As far as training outside the dojo? Well, this is where martial arts can be a bit of a lonely journey. You have to do a lot of the mental weight lifting yourself. If you can meet up regularly with a partner then that’s great – but ime that’s not usually possible (a lot of the time).

Some of my senior students and me often train together one on one - and I’m always happy to oblige. You might find this in your Wado dojo once you get to know the folk a little better.

At the end of the day, arts like Wado aren’t easy to learn,they really take a lifetime of work. So, if rapid results are what you are after (from a SD, grading or sport perspective) Wado may not be for you. But personaly, I would rather train 2-3 hours aweek in a good dojo with a knowledgeable instructor than 20 (in and out of the dojo) with a mediocre one.

It comes down to what you feel happiest with.

Sojobo

 

[Tez3]

I can't do the stuff the adult instructors were doing in the video so I'm not going to criticise!

 

[SPX]

I think “fitting in” to a dojo is an important part of Budo.

I agree. It's very important. I definitely want to get along with my fellow students and feel like I have a bond with them. And I was definitely trying to make that happen, but in some ways it seemed like an uphill battle.

There was one blackbelt who acted like a total prick to me just because he asked me if I was going to come to class a particular day, I said yes, and then I didn't show up. (Something came up.) And apparently he took that really personally and then the next time I saw him he just ignored me and basically acted like a child. Beyond that, though, it's not that anyone was particularly uncool or treated me poorly--in fact, most of the guys were at least personable and my instructor (there were a few instructors, but one in particular that I regarded as "mine") did for sure try to be welcoming--but for whatever reason I just always felt slightly uneasy.

The whole mood and atmosphere there is pretty "quiet." People chat a bit before and after class but there's not really a lot of laughing and joking around going on. And during class it's definitely a very traditional, straightforward kind of experience.

If your curious, this is the school:

http://wado-institute.com/

In our group we have students ranging from 14 – 55 and we all get on very well. The older members tend to take the youngsters under their wing but that said, some of our young guys and girls are technically better than some of us oldies – so there is a reciprocation there of sorts.

Out of curiosity, how many people are in your class?

As far as training outside the dojo? Well, this is where martial arts can be a bit of a lonely journey. You have to do a lot of the mental weight lifting yourself. If you can meet up regularly with a partner then that’s great – but ime that’s not usually possible (a lot of the time).

Some of my senior students and me often train together one on one - and I’m always happy to oblige. You might find this in your Wado dojo once you get to know the folk a little better.

As a kid, I did TKD for a few years. As an adult, I've done a bit more TKD, judo and a little wado.

One thing I have learned is that, as you say, learning martial arts can be something of a lonely journey. In all the schools I've been to, I've tried to find people who wanted to get together outside of class and I pretty much always hit a brick wall. I think, however, that it's often the hours of practicing outside of class where you really start to learn something and understand your art. Class introduces you to concepts and techniques . . . but it's outside of class that you really master those things. And kicking and punching the air and doing solo drills are very useful, but they don't really teach you how to fight.

When I was in TKD back in the day, I practiced at home like a madman. I would do my forms over and over and over until they were perfect and would practice my techniques until I had great looking kicks that other students sometimes openly admired. But one day I realized that, despite all this, I didn't really know how to fight. I knew how to execute punches and kicks and stances, but I didn't know anything about footwork or how to get in and out without being countered or how to deal with an aggressive, moving human being coming toward me. That is, while I learned how to do the techniques . . . I didn't learn how to USE the techniques.

So I'm desperate to not fall into that trap again and I know now that without someone to do drills with thousands of times and to spar with regularly for more than the 15 or so minutes that is allotted in class, that I'm never going to learn how to apply the things I'm learning.

I often hear stories of what seems me to be karate's golden age, from the 1960s to the 1980s, and I've heard people talk of a teacher-student relationship that they had with their instructor in which they would basically be individually taken under the wing of a teacher and would spend hours a day in training under their direct supervision. When I was a kid , I thought that's what awaited me, but from what I can tell today that kind of thing is pretty much a forgotten practice of a bygone era.

At the end of the day, arts like Wado aren’t easy to learn,they really take a lifetime of work. So, if rapid results are what you are after (from a SD, grading or sport perspective) Wado may not be for you.

You know, this is something I think about a lot because I'm a HUGE MMA fan. I'm very invested in the sport and even write for an MMA magazine on occasion. So sometimes I think I should be training at an MMA or kickboxing gym. In some ways, that would be a lot more appropriate. I visited a Muay Thai school once and there was a certain energy to the place that you don't usually find in traditional schools. They also had daytime classes, something that I REALLY prefer but which is SORELY lacking for the most part in the TMA world. And most of the students seemed to take it pretty seriously.

But at heart, I am a traditionalist. There is something about the history, tradition and trappings of the traditional Asian styles that I have always appreciated and that has always appealed to me. And when I see truly high level karatekas doing their thing it's a little awe-inspiring.

Also, while Wado is not an easy style to learn, I think with persistent and dedicated training you should be able to have a solid skillset for self-defense in six months. In the end, like with any martial art, we're just talking about punches and kicks and how to put them on target.

But personally, I would rather train 2-3 hours aweek in a good dojo with a knowledgeable instructor than 20 (in and out of the dojo) with a mediocre one.

It comes down to what you feel happiest with.

Yeah, for sure. Then again, would you pick an instructor who is a 10 but who you don't feel a strong personal connection with over an instructor who is an 8 that you really feel is a kindred spirit?

 

[Tez3]

I think with the best will in the world, SPX, you are looking for too much out of the people you train with. I'd love to be able to train outside class hours but in 20 years haven't managed it because life gets in the way and I have to prioritise, my family comes first and I have a job that makes demands. Many people have this problem, it's not that they don't want to train they can't, they aren't any less dedicated to martial arts they just have commitments they have to honour first. Don't think less of them or badger them for this. MMA gyms tend to be run professionally so can be open during the day, TMA places tend to be run by people who have to work during the day hence the evening classes.
As for the guy you say blanked you etc because you hadn't turned up, if you haven't spoken to him how do you know this is the case? There may have been a more simple explanation, perhaps you should have asked him?

I don't think there ever was a 'golden age' of martial arts, perhaps though it's now. I think maybe you are looking for something that's not there, perhaps never has been?
I understand you want to immerse yourself in a style, perhaps MMA would be good for you as you can train the different elements on different days if you wish. Practising at home is good but you have to be careful not to overdo it and end up practising wrongly, it's hard then to put right.
Not everyone needs to feel a strong personal connection to an instructor to train well, I prefer not to get too close to someone teaching me. I like a bit of separation. I don't want a kindred spirit I'm afraid, I want a good instructor.
I hope though you find what you are looking for, I'm sure it's out there.

 

[chinto]

I am not a fan of XMA.. to much show and not enough go.

 

[dancingalone]

I often hear stories of what seems me to be karate's golden age, from the 1960s to the 1980s, and I've heard people talk of a teacher-student relationship that they had with their instructor in which they would basically be individually taken under the wing of a teacher and would spend hours a day in training under their direct supervision. When I was a kid , I thought that's what awaited me, but from what I can tell today that kind of thing is pretty much a forgotten practice of a bygone era.

Some people are lucky and the circumstance finds them.

I had to find my teacher and I searched a long time for him, moving several times along the way, training in a variety of arts with a bunch of teachers, some famous, many not. But when I found him, I knew within the first few hours what I had within my grasp.

It appears that like me you weren't one of the lucky ones, so you might have to upend yourself until you do find such a situation.

 

[Tez3]

I am not a fan of XMA.. to much show and not enough go.

I'm not either but I do envy their athleticism.

 

[SPX]

I think with the best will in the world, SPX, you are looking for too much out of the people you train with. I'd love to be able to train outside class hours but in 20 years haven't managed it because life gets in the way and I have to prioritise, my family comes first and I have a job that makes demands.

Yes, I do understand that not everyone is capable of it. People do have jobs . . . families . . . etc. But not everyone is married (I'm not) and some people don't really have much going on in their lives beyond work.

This is one reason why I wanted some younger people in my class, because they often have fewer commitments and more "fire" (not commitment, mind you, just youthful enthusiasm). I'm looking for the kind of guys who are interested in making a serious competitive run and who want to put the kind of time into training that that requires.

I know there have to be guys like that out there. . .

Many people have this problem, it's not that they don't want to train they can't, they aren't any less dedicated to martial arts they just have commitments they have to honour first. Don't think less of them or badger them for this.

I don't question their dedication and I've never badgered anyone.

I was disappointed that I never found anyone to train with at the Wado school. But I was more disappointed that no one even took the time to visit the website I set up for us all to use. I didn't create it just to set up meet ups, but also just as a sort of virtual gathering place for us to talk about things and get to know each other outside of class. But not a single person from the school ever even registered.

But it's all good.

MMA gyms tend to be run professionally so can be open during the day, TMA places tend to be run by people who have to work during the day hence the evening classes.

Yes, well I think that's part of the "problem." Just like you have boxing gyms, Muay Thai gyms, etc. it would be cool if you also had karate gyms, TKD gyms, etc. You know, the kind of place that is pretty much always open and that teaches classes all through the day.

Basically, I wish traditional stylists had the same sort of opportunities that boxers, kickboxers and MMA fighters do and that's just not the case.

As for the guy you say blanked you etc because you hadn't turned up, if you haven't spoken to him how do you know this is the case? There may have been a more simple explanation, perhaps you should have asked him?

Oh, well at first he refused to talk to me. I would say something to him and he would just give me a nasty look at walk away. It wasn't ambiguous.

Eventually he kind of started talking to me again but he was pretty curt. And this guy is probably 50 years old. No need to act like a child.

I don't think there ever was a 'golden age' of martial arts, perhaps though it's now.

Well I definitely think we're living in an interesting time for martial arts as a whole because of the MMA explosion. So many people are training in SOMETHING.

But there was definitely a time from the mid-60s to I'd probably say the end of the 80s when traditional martial arts were in vogue in a way that is not the case now, starting with the era of "full contact karate" and guys like Joe Lewis and Bill Wallace and moving into the era of guys like Benny Urquidez and Billy Blanks.

Bear in mind I am mostly speaking of the state of things here in the US. I don't know about the rest of the world. But I do think it's definitely true that traditional styles have become a lot more oriented toward kids and have become more of a hobby rather than a serious pursuit for most of the adults who ARE training.

Even when I first visited the Wado school the instructor was like, "We don't get a lot of new people. I think most people are interested in MMA these days."

I understand you want to immerse yourself in a style, perhaps MMA would be good for you as you can train the different elements on different days if you wish.

Like I said, I love MMA but there's some unexplainable tie that I have toward traditional styles and, for better or worse, I just want to figure out a way to make it work (training traditionally, that is).

Not everyone needs to feel a strong personal connection to an instructor to train well, I prefer not to get too close to someone teaching me. I like a bit of separation. I don't want a kindred spirit I'm afraid, I want a good instructor.

Yeah, that's an individual thing for sure.

I've just had a few instructors who kind of kept me on pins and needles and who I just didn't feel like I really had any connection with. After a few rounds of that I'm ready for something different.

I hope though you find what you are looking for, I'm sure it's out there.

Thanks! I appreciate that. I do keep looking.

 

[SPX]

I am not a fan of XMA.. to much show and not enough go.

I'm not either but I do envy their athleticism.

I just look at it as something different from martial arts for self-defense purposes. I've heard some people refer to it as more of a "martial arts themed" activity rather than actual martial arts.

Basically, I see it the same way that I see gymnastics or dance and I suspect that's how most of the people who do it think of it as well. I actually have always thought that it looks like a lot of fun. If I was 20 years younger I'm sure I'd want to do it because when I was a kid in TKD I was all about anything that allowed me to jump and/or spin.

 

[SPX]

I had to find my teacher and I searched a long time for him, moving several times along the way, training in a variety of arts with a bunch of teachers, some famous, many not. But when I found him, I knew within the first few hours what I had within my grasp.

I COMPLETELY relate to your statement about "moving several times, training in a variety of arts with a bunch of teachers." That's pretty much my story. I have never been as dedicated as I want to be. I blame that partially on myself. But I also think it has a lot to do with the fact that I haven't found a school or teacher that really inspires me.

There is one particular instructor at the Wado school who I think is perhaps the most impressive that I've ever run into. But he only teaches two one hour classes per week. I definitely knew that he understood his art in a way that I'm not used to, though. If he would be my Mr. Miyagi I would definitely be his Daniel Laruso.

It appears that like me you weren't one of the lucky ones, so you might have to upend yourself until you do find such a situation.

That seems to be the case. I've met some good teachers but none that seemed like THE teacher. I guess I see choosing a teacher like choosing a wife . . . you need to be sure. And thus far, I haven't been.

But I hope one day it all comes together.

 

[dancingalone]

I COMPLETELY relate to your statement about "moving several times, training in a variety of arts with a bunch of teachers." That's pretty much my story. I have never been as dedicated as I want to be. I blame that partially on myself. But I also think it has a lot to do with the fact that I haven't found a school or teacher that really inspires me.

There is one particular instructor at the Wado school who I think is perhaps the most impressive that I've ever run into. But he only teaches two one hour classes per week. I definitely knew that he understood his art in a way that I'm not used to, though. If he would be my Mr. Miyagi I would definitely be his Daniel Laruso.

I have encountered many exceptional martial artists. Not all of them were exceptional *teachers* though, nor were most of them looking to take in a 'disciple'.

That seems to be the case. I've met some good teachers but none that seemed like THE teacher. I guess I see choosing a teacher like choosing a wife . . . you need to be sure. And thus far, I haven't been.

But I hope one day it all comes together.

I don't believe you have to commit so strongly right away. In fact, I think many teachers would be scared away by someone knocking on their door, asking to be their Daniel Laruso. I would be.

My senior student who I have spent countless hours with and who has even lived in my house with my family for a while started out as a simple 'outer chamber' student. But he took every opportunity to train and he soaked up everything I put out in class. He was a delight to teach - I'm human and I definitely enjoy it more when I have an audience that understands contextually a lot of the material I teach without having to explain it verbatim sometimes to dim, uncomprehending eyes. So gradually I spent more and more time with him until he was at my home taking privates and then one day, he actually moved in and became part of the family. In a way, I was paying back my sensei, since I became his student under similar circumstances.

But before that happened, I did try to create a deeper relationship with a few of the better teachers I found. This is where luck and chance comes into play. Not everyone is at the same place in life all the time. Some might be inclined to be close to a few students but their financial circumstances might require them to work at another career or they might have familial obligations such as multiple children to take care of. I was ready but they weren't if that makes sense. Things worked out for me only because I did not have to work and I could hang out all day at my teacher's practice (he was a doctor of OM and an acupuncturist) and do various errands for him in between my own martial study. This allowed me to receive a lot of private correction and he understood after a few months that I was a serious student worth investing in.

If you're young with good foundation skills and you don't mind being a sparring partner, have you thought about joining one of those MMA camps run by a successful coach? That definitely seems to be the easiest path to getting in the door with a high quality instructor these days.

I wish you luck. I'm one of those people who believes fortune favors the bold and that when a person is ready life-wise, a teacher will come.

 

[Sojobo]

If your curious, this is the school:

http://wado-institute.com/

Yes, I have seen that website before. I think they are (or were at one point) connected to the Wado Academy.

Out of curiosity, how many people are in your class?

We have about 30 regular members split between our junior and adult classes.

I often hear stories of what seems me to be karate's golden age, from the 1960s to the 1980s, and I've heard people talk of a teacher-student relationship that they had with their instructor in which they would basically be individually taken under the wing of a teacher and would spend hours a day in training under their direct supervision. When I was a kid , I thought that's what awaited me, but from what I can tell today that kind of thing is pretty much a forgotten practice of a bygone era.

I'm from that era, and whilst I would agree that things were a little tougher back then, I think that the standards of teaching and technical understanding are far higher today.

Also, while Wado is not an easy style to learn, I think with persistent and dedicated training you should be able to have a solid skillset for self-defense in six months. In the end, like with any martial art, we're just talking about punches and kicks and how to put them on target.

Not really. Arts like Wado-ryu (and other traditional Japanese systems) are far more than just kicking and punching. They are much more multi layered than that.

And also I am intregued as to where you have got your time frame of 6 months to have a solid skill set of Self Defense? Actually I know a lot of very senior Wado instructors who deliberately avoid the use of the wording. Wado isn't a self defense system.

Just a thought, but if you were training with that mindset at the Wado dojo - it is posible that the other guys picked up on that vibe and as a result were a little "prickly" with you.

Yeah, for sure. Then again, would you pick an instructor who is a 10 but who you don't feel a strong personal connection with over an instructor who is an 8 that you really feel is a kindred spirit?

I would train with the best instructor.

Sojobo

 

[SPX]

I have encountered many exceptional martial artists. Not all of them were exceptional *teachers* though, nor were most of them looking to take in a 'disciple'.

Makes sense.

I don't believe you have to commit so strongly right away. In fact, I think many teachers would be scared away by someone knocking on their door, asking to be their Daniel Laruso. I would be.

Certainly not right away. Presumably, if you were to make such a decision (to approach a teacher) then you would've already trained with them for at least a little while. Otherwise, how would you know they're the right teacher who can take you to the next level as a martial artist?

For me, I would actually like to compete on a serious level, i.e. regularly and with the hope of achieving something notable. And I know that at 30 years old I'm getting to an age where, as an athlete, my abilities are not what they were just five years ago and that as I continue to get older they will inevitably continue to decrease. So since time is not on my side, I'm looking for what I guess you could call "accelerated training." The upside for me is that by the time I reach a reasonable level of ability I won't be too old to do anything with it. The upside for the instructor is that he/she gets a piece of clay they can mold and, perhaps, do some things that they don't get the opportunity to do with their regular three-days-a-week-one-hour-per-day students. It seems like the right instructor could have a blast and just go wild, like a kid in a candy store.

The other concern is that, from a self-defense perspective, you really need self-defense skills every time you walk out your front door. So considering the fact that attackers may not be nice enough to wait until after I've been training for five years, I want to build a solid basic skillset for SD as quickly as possible.

It's not as if this kind of thing is unheard of. I believe it was Joe Lewis who started training (either in taekwondo or some form of karate) and was basically at the school anytime the doors were open. His teacher worked with him for several hours a day and he got his black belt in a year. And then he went out and kicked everybody's *** in tournaments around the world.

But I do understand the sentiment that it could be perceived as kind of weird and might take someone off guard.

My senior student who I have spent countless hours with and who has even lived in my house with my family for a while started out as a simple 'outer chamber' student. But he took every opportunity to train and he soaked up everything I put out in class. He was a delight to teach - I'm human and I definitely enjoy it more when I have an audience that understands contextually a lot of the material I teach without having to explain it verbatim sometimes to dim, uncomprehending eyes. So gradually I spent more and more time with him until he was at my home taking privates and then one day, he actually moved in and became part of the family. In a way, I was paying back my sensei, since I became his student under similar circumstances.

But before that happened, I did try to create a deeper relationship with a few of the better teachers I found. This is where luck and chance comes into play. Not everyone is at the same place in life all the time. Some might be inclined to be close to a few students but their financial circumstances might require them to work at another career or they might have familial obligations such as multiple children to take care of. I was ready but they weren't if that makes sense. Things worked out for me only because I did not have to work and I could hang out all day at my teacher's practice (he was a doctor of OM and an acupuncturist) and do various errands for him in between my own martial study. This allowed me to receive a lot of private correction and he understood after a few months that I was a serious student worth investing in.

Interesting stories.

As you say, luck and chance come into play. I imagine it has to be a situation where the stars align in just the right way, but it does seem that, for you and your instructor--as well as for you and you student--it happened.

My situation is actually not ideal. I am in school full time and also have to work (my hours are flexible, but I do still have to put the time in to keep a roof over my head). On top of that, everyone needs a little extra time beyond working, going to school, training etc. to just relax and decompress. But I'd like to figure out how to make something work.

What art do you train in, out of curiosity?

If you're young with good foundation skills and you don't mind being a sparring partner, have you thought about joining one of those MMA camps run by a successful coach? That definitely seems to be the easiest path to getting in the door with a high quality instructor these days.

We have some good MMA gyms in the area but, as I mentioned earlier, despite my rabid MMA fandom, I would rather stick to a traditional style for historical and philosophical reasons. Even as an MMA fan, I always cheer on guys like Machida (probably my favorite fighter) who come from traditional backgrounds.

There is a WTF/KKW TKD school that I visited a few times that I have considered joining. The teacher is good and there is a VERY STRONG competitive focus. I believe one of the black belts there may have even made the US National Team recently. The downside, though, is that it's so competition oriented that you learn almost nothing about how to use your hands. I do love to kick but karate is attractive to me because it seems very practical to me for SD purposes.

I'd love to find a good ITF TKD school. Seems like the best of both worlds, in some ways. I appreciate the structure of their competitions and it's a lot more well-rounded than what is taught at many Olympic schools. But the ITF situation here in Utah is quite poor, in my estimation.

I wish you luck. I'm one of those people who believes fortune favors the bold and that when a person is ready life-wise, a teacher will come.

Thanks a bunch! We'll see how everything shakes out. As I said, I'm not getting any younger. I need to make some choices soon and stick with them.

 

[SPX]

I'm from that era, and whilst I would agree that things were a little tougher back then, I think that the standards of teaching and technical understanding are far higher today.

That's an interesting statement. Can you elaborate on that a bit?

Not really. Arts like Wado-ryu (and other traditional Japanese systems) are far more than just kicking and punching. They are much more multi layered than that.

They may be "far more" than kicking or punching, but you can't deny that a big part of any karate system comes down to how to hit a target with a punch or kick, hopefully in a manner in which you avoid also getting hit.

There may be many layers. But that is one very important layer.

And also I am intregued as to where you have got your time frame of 6 months to have a solid skill set of Self Defense? Actually I know a lot of very senior Wado instructors who deliberately avoid the use of the wording. Wado isn't a self defense system.

With a good teacher and a proper amount of practice, you should be able to get a good basic competency in any martial art in six months. You have to keep in mind that people improve the most during the initial stages of their training and then more and more slowly the farther down the road they go. This doesn't mean you will know everything. It doesn't mean that you will even know all that much. But if in six months you haven't learned what you're supposed to do when someone throws a punch at you then you should go train somewhere else.

Bear in mind that most street attackers are untrained. Do you disagree that six months of karate training should be enough to prepare you to deal with some fool throwing haymakers?

Wado isn't a self defense system. Just a thought, but if you were training with that mindset at the Wado dojo - it is posible that the other guys picked up on that vibe and as a result were a little "prickly" with you.

Not at all. In fact, before I even joined the school I had talked to two black belts and they both told me that, while there are other benefits to training in Wado, at this school they train to fight. They do also stress that karate can help you in other aspects of your life and can help to make you a "life champion" and that there are philosophical underpinnings to the system that they embrace. They also help to organize the Utah Karate Open every year and the school has several decades of competitive history in which its students have competed all over the world. But when it comes to the daily physical training of the techniques in the dojo, my instructor stressed to me several times that the emphasis is placed on practical self-defense.

I know this isn't an isolated attitude. I have listened to Ian Abernethy's (who comes from a Wado background) podcast and he has also stressed that he teaches primarily from a practical, real-world self-defense perspective.

I'm not sure why you say that Wado is not a self-defense system.

 

[Sojobo]

They may be "far more" than kicking or punching, but you can't deny that a big part of any karate system comes down to how to hit a target with a punch or kick, hopefully in a manner in which you avoid also getting hit.

There may be many layers. But that is one very important layer.

Actually (from a Wado perspective anyway) that's a rather superficial layer. There is so much more to martial engagement than knowing how to kick and punch - you can teach a monkey how to do that lol. What about understanding how to size up an opponent by looking at them? How about understanding correct fighting distance, timing and angles of entry? How about learning how to use your body efficiently and further more understanding how to exploit your opponents weaknesses?

With a good teacher and a proper amount of practice, you should be able to get a good basic competency in any martial art in six months. You have to keep in mind that people improve the most during the initial stages of their training and then more and more slowly the farther down the road they go. This doesn't mean you will know everything. It doesn't mean that you will even know all that much. But if in six months you haven't learned what you're supposed to do when someone throws a punch at you then you should go train somewhere else.

I don't quite know where you are getting the need to attach timescales from.

From a Budo perspective - Karate has no timescales. Consumers put requirements on things. If, as a consumer, you expect more rapid results then perhaps you are missing the point?

Not at all. In fact, before I even joined the school I had talked to two black belts and they both told me that, while there are other benefits to training in Wado, at this school they train to fight. They do also stress that karate can help you in other aspects of your life and can help to make you a "life champion" and that there are philosophical underpinnings to the system that they embrace. They also help to organize the Utah Karate Open every year and the school has several decades of competitive history in which its students have competed all over the world. But when it comes to the daily physical training of the techniques in the dojo, my instructor stressed to me several times that the emphasis is placed on practical self-defense.

Knowing how to fight and Self Defense is not the same thing.

I know this isn't an isolated attitude. I have listened to Ian Abernethy's (who comes from a Wado background) podcast and he has also stressed that he teaches primarily from a practical, real-world self-defense perspective.

I'm not sure why you say that Wado is not a self-defense system.

I respect Mr Abernethy's work. He comes from a school that is "Based" in Wado - ask him and he will tell you that what he does and his approach is NOT Wado.

Sojobo