Vote: Reorganized Reputation System.

[Bob Hubbard]

Reading through this mess, I have to laugh. Somehow I knew at some point, someone would suggest I get a "set". LOL! I'm temped to post proof, but I'd have to suspend myself for a week for content violation. :rofl:

Anyway, back to the cluster ****.

The rep system is one, of several dozen features we offer. What this poll has told me is that most members either don't bother reading these surveys, or don't care either way on what we do with it. A much smaller group wants to keep it the same, and a slightly smaller group wants some kind of change done.

I'm in a rock-hard place situation.
If I do nothing, we'll have this argument again.

If I do something, some folks won't like what I do.



Here's some technical info:
We have plenty of server space and bandwidth to play with. No worries there. Site is sluggish because we're so damn busy and all those database queeries eat up CPU cycles.

So, here is what we are going to do.
- The rep system will be restructured (once we work out all the details)
----new levels added.
----Top Rep Power capped (means you're power maxes out, but points will continue to accumulate)
----A partial reset will occur so that only rep for the past year is kept and counted. We will take a snapshot of the current ranks and post that. We will periodically do a full reset/archive to rebalance things.
----A note will be required with all rep.

It will still be private, and the rules of abuse will still be in effect. We will however be checking it more often for abuse, and infracting accordingly. Please do not use it as an IM system, we have a PM system for the purpose of sending notes.

In addition, we will be installing the Thanks/No Thanks system shortly, so that people can show their appreciation or not.


I realize this is not a perfect solution, however I think it meets all sides in the middle.

 

[Tez3]

I started reading this thread with a vague opinion and finished it with no opinion whatsoever only a headache! I found myself agreeing with various opinion many at odds with each other. if I do vote, haven't decided yet, I think it will probably be for leaving it as it is.

When I started on this forum last year I was at home off sick long term from work with what may have been or not a nervous breakdown, the jury is still out on that. I was certainly very depressed and I found in MT somewhere I could chat to people, read interesting posts, learn no end of interesting things, have a laugh and basically be with like minded people at a time when i was stuck in the house. My post count is high because I did spend a lot of time here, I still use it to bribe myself to do the housework and whatever else needs doing! I say to myself if I get that pile of ironing done, washing whatever I can go onto MT for a while then on to the next job.

I have very much appreciated the rep comments and point I've gained here from people who I've come to respect. I've tried very hard when I've repped people to pass on what I've received, a pat on the back perhaps or a hey you aren't alone, or hey liked that it made me laugh ( horrid to make a funny and no one laughs!) I've repped people saying I appreciated their posts when in another thread I've argued with them.

I'm not saying MT saved my life but I think it certainly helped save my sanity, now I'm as normal as I ever was lol I appreciate this site for the insights, comments advice and arguments we have. I think, after all, my vote is for Bob to do what he thinks best.

 

[Sapper6]

Reading through this mess, I have to laugh. Somehow I knew at some point, someone would suggest I get a "set". LOL! I'm temped to post proof, but I'd have to suspend myself for a week for content violation. :rofl:

Anyway, back to the cluster ****.

The rep system is one, of several dozen features we offer. What this poll has told me is that most members either don't bother reading these surveys, or don't care either way on what we do with it. A much smaller group wants to keep it the same, and a slightly smaller group wants some kind of change done.

I'm in a rock-hard place situation.
If I do nothing, we'll have this argument again.

If I do something, some folks won't like what I do.



Here's some technical info:
We have plenty of server space and bandwidth to play with. No worries there. Site is sluggish because we're so damn busy and all those database queeries eat up CPU cycles.

So, here is what we are going to do.
- The rep system will be restructured (once we work out all the details)
----new levels added.
----Top Rep Power capped (means you're power maxes out, but points will continue to accumulate)
----A partial reset will occur so that only rep for the past year is kept and counted. We will take a snapshot of the current ranks and post that. We will periodically do a full reset/archive to rebalance things.
----A note will be required with all rep.

It will still be private, and the rules of abuse will still be in effect. We will however be checking it more often for abuse, and infracting accordingly. Please do not use it as an IM system, we have a PM system for the purpose of sending notes.

In addition, we will be installing the Thanks/No Thanks system shortly, so that people can show their appreciation or not.


I realize this is not a perfect solution, however I think it meets all sides in the middle.

again, I don't really see the need to restructure the system.

why post a poll and then decide against it's majority? seems counter-productive to me.

oh yeah, i got my first star today. dammit i'm a sinner.

 

[Bob Hubbard]

I'm leaving the poll open until it runs out.
The majority have no opinion. Get more of them to vote, and it becomes more of a mandate .

 

[MBuzzy]

Bob - For what its worth, I think that is a great solution. Thanks!

 

[Tez3]

OK I voted, stay the same. Do you know how long it took me to understand the present rules............ anything with numbers in I'm stuck lol!

Bob, in the Royal Navy the expression 'growing a set' refers to growing a full beard lol! Sailors can be clean shaven or have a beard, nothing else.


Numbers I can't do but useless info I'm full of!

 

[thardey]

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That's the "meat" of the business. You keep this up, you keep the business productive. Reps, and thumbs, and points, and stars aren't why any of us are here. I think Bob's got the right idea - he knows a lot more about what's happening than we do, and this is a business, not a democracy. It's good to get feedback, and keep customers happy, but you can't please everyone, and still keep whatever focus you had to run the business in the first place.

One thing I was looking for in your post, Bob, was that you didn't mention if reps would no longer be anonymous, which I think would be a good idea.

This is the first, and only forum I have ever been involved with. To me, the rep system isn't out of control, because I have nothing to compare it to.

The only real inconvenience I see as it stands, is that once you get to a certain rep power, you get hesitant to rep people because you may think a post is good, but not worth jumping 3 levels, so you can only rep posts that are worth 3 yellows, which doesn't happen a lot, particularly when you have to wait for 20 of these before you can rep someone again. It just takes the fun out it.

Me, I'm in a great spot. My reps actually are worth some points, but not too many.

Would it be possible to not so much cap the reps, as decide how how many points to rep them? Like instead of agree/disagree you can have negative, enjoyable, positive, and extremely positive? That way you can still play the game, but have a little control over you power?

I mean, after all, isn't controlling your power part of what being a black belt is all about?

 

[Tez3]

I haven't worked out what my repping someone does (dur!) Please don't tell me, I like it that way! that's probably the only comment I have, just repping someone because you like their post is enough.

 

[thardey]

In that case, Rep me! Rep me!

J/K

 

[crushing]

In that case, Rep me! Rep me!

J/K

Positively or negatively?

 

[thardey]

Positively or negatively?

Shhhh!

 

[JBrainard]

Bob - For what its worth, I think that is a great solution. Thanks!

Ditto.
Please note that I didn't rep MBuzzy for that...

 

[Brian King]

“Dear Mr. King,

Your post in this thread contains material which could be interpreted as a physical challenge against a fellow member of this forum.

Please take a moment to review the rules of the forum.

Challenge posts are not permitted on this forum, and could result in an immediate ban from this forum.

If you have any questions on this matter, please feel free to contact any of the senior staff of Martialtalk.com.

Thank you.

-Ronald Shin
-MT Moderator “

Thank you for the warning and I publicly apologize to any that may have felt physically challenged. I understand that those staff that wishes to call members names and besmirch their reputations, both the insulters and the persons being insulted, and the forums, should be reported to other staff and the matter will be settled behind closed doors. Fair enough.


If you read this thread you see that I do get around http://martialtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=45746
and I am not the only reader of this forum who travels and trains with many others. I have had the opportunity to meet a few MT’ers and hope to meet many others on the training floor. My reason for reminding Drac that we have met, reminding him of how I train (I train honestly), reminding him that his instructors all the way up to his grandmaster guy considered me “unresponsive” to their pain compliance techniques as none could make any of them work on me, reminding him that he knows that whining is not in my vocabulary. I was hoping that reminder might allow him to see that others, people he knows in real life, might be viewing his writing as boorish behavior and he might consider and return his professionalism to his writing. My comment of how we might again meet (since we last met in training environment I meant that we may again meet in a training environment) was to remind him and all of us that when we paint our insults and remarks with a broad brush we tend to get paint on others and not just our target. That the person you deliberately insulted and perhaps people you insulted unintentionally may also be your current or future training partners. I did this as a reminder to myself and hopefully to others to try to keep it civil and polite. These are not just names on a screen but are people that we are addressing. I and others post under our real names; we show up at training events, ours and those of other arts, we travel to across the United States (or whatever country we live in) and we often travel to other countries to train, many take the martial in martial arts seriously. Polite behavior is a necessity on our part because we can so easily be held accountable for boorish behavior. A reminder to others that what you say is being read by many and will last forever and you should use caution not to represent yourself poorly in a behavior that might prove embarrassing when you meet others during events such as the meet and greet and other training venues and you realize not only is the screen name a real person, but they are often very nice people and sometimes very skilled people. LOL it sucks to have to say “aw shucks I didn’t mean it face to face LOL realizing how what you wrote or said made you look like the south end of horse traveling north. Warrior societies have to be polite societies. It is good to be reminded of that now and then in my opinion. It is far to easy to forget the above while engaged in internet discussions. Threads may get locked, they will drift to the very bottom of the page, but what we write lasts or could last forever, and this too should be considered before hitting the send button IMHO.

Some might wonder at a ‘you may be banned message’ be received so soon after the posting of a mini- rant. I wish to state publicly that I think it likely a coincidence and that some review or time spent between the original post and the warning message is likely customary and per their (staff) guidelines. I do not consider it an attempt at censor or payback even while I have recently negative rep’d some staff members for behavior I considered and do consider below their position as staff. The warning is being taken in good faith and made public in that good faith. I will continue to watch and monitor my behavior and welcome any corrections (grammar, spelling and any boorish or threatening behavior) in the future. I seek to improve myself hence my participation here (hopefully allowed to continue) and my continued participation in training events in real life where I look forward to meeting and training with many of you at future training events.

The staff here all has a tough time consuming job and are human like the rest of us. None of us are perfect and all need little reminders now and then. On the whole I think most try to do a really good job and I am grateful for their participation and work.

This may have all been better said in private but I am an open and honest guy. I prefer any of my ‘dirty laundry’ out in the open. I want to challenge myself into better and better writing and behavior. Letting people know that I may be on a bubble and possibly banned could very well give some the ammo needed for payback, if so it is karma and have fun, but it will also be my challenge to continue to write honestly knowing that I am under threat and watch and I am looking forward to the continued improvements that it hopefully brings.

“Bob, in the Royal Navy the expression 'growing a set' refers to growing a full beard lol! Sailors can be clean shaven or have a beard, nothing else.”

That is funny! I continue to be amazed and fascinated by our shared languages and the differences. It also shows the challenge of writing well and forgetting that you are assuming that others share your language and will understand what you say. It is just another of the many challenges of writing on an internationally read forum.

“Reading through this mess, I have to laugh. Somehow I knew at some point, someone would suggest I get a "set".”

LOL leadership my friend, you aren’t a stranger to it, sorry it had to be me LOL

“LOL! I'm temped to post proof, but I'd have to suspend myself for a week for content violation. ”

OMG, thanks for the restraint!!! Although might not some say that a beard could be an improvement?


Re-me too me too posts. Is there any concern on bandwidth? Just wondering the technical forum running stuff.

“
Originally Posted by MBuzzy
Bob - For what its worth, I think that is a great solution. Thanks!

Ditto.”

Me too

Brian King

 

[Bob Hubbard]

Brian,
I'm not actively involved in the discussions concerning things with this thread due to my active involvement in the thread, (it's against our policies to both be active in and moderate in a thread). That said, posts that are deemed a challenge nature usually result in a ban. Keeps alot of internet keyboard warriors away. Airing actions like this also runs afoul of the rules. Just a heads up for ya. For the record too, moderators who have commented in here have in most cases been posting as members, and those who haven't shown "good order" as it were, are being talked with just like any members here have been, by staff who aren't involved in the discussion.



As to me in a beard.....already there folks....already there.

 

[Flying Crane]

Would it be possible to not so much cap the reps, as decide how how many points to rep them? Like instead of agree/disagree you can have negative, enjoyable, positive, and extremely positive? That way you can still play the game, but have a little control over you power?

Not a bad suggestion...

 

[Tez3]

I got seriously called out on a forum once by someone who disagreed with what I said, I accepted of course, it would have been rude not to. He said he would need a years training and a couple of MMA fights first so that it would have been fair. Someone else pointed out to him that I was a woman, he backed out saying he didn't know, this despite people using my name, Irene, calling me mum (soft lads fighters), using the word she etc. he went back to squashing frying pans, (honestly) and telling us that we had fibre optic muscles.
The guy was called 'savvy', he left us but we found him here, He actually mentions the thread where he called me out in his first post.They must have got fed up of trying to read his posts coz they banned him lol!
http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=569004


That was apropos nothing really, just wanted to share!

 

[arnisador]

You also know, of course, that debating board policy is against the rules.

Even in a thread dedicated to it in Admin Announcements, in which members' opinions were explicitly sought on a board policy/feature? In specific response--the one you quoted--to a detailed question asked me by a moderator (Exile)?

That rule doesn't make much sense here, does it?

(Incidentally, I don't believe we had that rule when I worked here--if we did, I don't recall ever enforcing it. I was prepared to justify my actions.)

 

[arnisador]

So, here is what we are going to do.
- The rep system will be restructured (once we work out all the details)
----new levels added.
----Top Rep Power capped (means you're power maxes out, but points will continue to accumulate)
----A partial reset will occur so that only rep for the past year is kept and counted. We will take a snapshot of the current ranks and post that. We will periodically do a full reset/archive to rebalance things.
----A note will be required with all rep.

It will still be private, and the rules of abuse will still be in effect. We will however be checking it more often for abuse, and infracting accordingly. Please do not use it as an IM system, we have a PM system for the purpose of sending notes.

In addition, we will be installing the Thanks/No Thanks system shortly, so that people can show their appreciation or not.

Seems like a reasonable solution to a clearly intractable problem. Thanks for listening!

I realize this is not a perfect solution, however I think it meets all sides in the middle.

This has always been a strength of Kaith's--a compromise that leaves all sides fairly happy, unlike most compromises that leave no sides happy.

 

[Bob Hubbard]

I've been asked why make any changes when the majority doesn't want them.

Here's the problem. Right now, points continue to add up. Eventually, we will have people able to rep folks and add 12 stars in 1 shot. Now, with that kind of power, things stop being any fun, or of any real value.

For the system to have any value, it's got to scale properly, and not be subject to such hugh lopsidedness.

For it to be fun, it also has to be fair. As it is, it's dramatically unfair.

While I know people are going to be upset to lose their army of stars and ability to smite dragons with a simple breath, things need to be brought back into perspective.

My intent is to do these resets annually, post the results and maybe do something special for the top person.

Folks, the systems supposed to be here as a fun addition, and to be honest, it lost the fun a long time ago for me, and alot of folks. I want to put that fun back in, and see more people enjoying it.

The catch is, is to keep what the folks who currently are in favor of keeping things unchanged intact while addressing the concerns of those who want something changed. I think by doing these resets, we can meet most of the concerns, and make it a fun part of the site again.

 

[Kacey]

As one of the people with an "army of stars", I have to say that comments that come with the rep are worth more to me than the visual. Sure, I think there needs to be some type of visual, so that others can see who is receiving what - but I have absolutely no problem with scaling it back, topping it out, or something similar. It's nice to be recognized for positive contributions - but the rep power is starting to grow exponentially, and I think an arithmatic or even geometric progression would be much more appropriate.