Video me frustrated sparring

[JowGaWolf]

Second of all, youR stomach is open... he's just too bungEly to capitalize on the opening, or your blocking is too good: Or BOTH....\

I intentionally leave my stomach open, for the purpose of drawing the attack there. If you look at most of my videos you'll see that my stomach is open. When it's open I know someone like you will want to go for it. So I leave it open to draw the attack there.

Honestly, I don't see from the vid how you knew that.... thought it's logical.... I also don't see why he couldn't have rocketed ahead with a reverse punch to the 'open' stomach. But let's agree you saw the jab coming...

For me it doesn't take long to analyze my opponents movement. When sparring, people will fight with their strong points and will repeat the use of it. So I stay back just far enough for them to come after me with "the good stuff." It usually takes me 2 to 3 attacks to start getting a feel of how my opponent moves. My second understanding comes when my mind starts to recognize from the body position and movement of the body of what strike will come next. I don't need to address all of the movement, I just need identify one attack and to wait for the pattern to repeat itself. My brain picks up this movement and it's like I'm seeing what attack comes next. It's difficult to explain. The best that I can sum it up is that I'm sensing these movement and not actually sitting there thinking and waiting. My eyes see, my brain understands, my body takes action.

 

[ShotoNoob]

I intentionally leave my stomach open, for the purpose of drawing the attack there. If you look at most of my videos you'll see that my stomach is open. When it's open I know someone like you will want to go for it. So I leave it open to draw the attack there.

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Opps, nice try Ja Gow but if you read my TLDR treatises closely... what you state precisely doesn't apply to me... It's boxing brother & Jai Harman who are mentally 1-dimensional that go for your baits & feints. Right answer to wrong test question.... my friend...

For me it doesn't take long to analyze my opponents movement. When sparring, people will fight with their strong points and will repeat the use of it. So I stay back just far enough for them to come after me with "the good stuff." It usually takes me 2 to 3 attacks to start getting a feel of how my opponent moves.

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I destroy Jai Harman like guys right out of the box....

My second understanding comes when my mind starts to recognize from the body position and movement of the body of what strike will come next. I don't need to address all of the movement, I just need identify one attack and to wait for the pattern to repeat itself. My brain picks up this movement and it's like I'm seeing what attack comes next. It's difficult to explain. The best that I can sum it up is that I'm sensing these movement and not actually sitting there thinking and waiting. My eyes see, my brain understands, my body takes action.

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You are developing mental discipline. The difference between you and me is that you are doing off of applying specific tactics specific to the actions of your opponents.
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I'm applying general principles to specifically address whatever my (general) opponent does specifically. How's that for double talk???
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Anyway, I sense (no pun intended) that you have adapted free sparring to the development of what Shotokan refers to as "sen," or "initiative," which is a mental process arising from overall mental discipline.... I am sure many many free sparring TMA practitioners are doing exactly the same thing....or trying to.... I do this starting with kihon.... then kata, then 1-step kumite, then kata... etc, etc...
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You way would be the more conventional approach that TMA schools hold free sparring... and one of my YT vids ( the one with Conor McGregor) the karate instructor pretty much quotes this... HOwever, strictly speaking by TMA theory, this is wrong by total perspective....

 

[JowGaWolf]

This would be the kenpo law case of straight (my straight right punch) beats circle (your round kick to my ribs [where they were]).

It was a heel kick to the ribs.

Unlike your applied free sparring approach, you wouldn't really learn a thing from sparring with me other that my level of mental discipline is higher than that of boxing brothers, and greater than yours too (hopefully in my mind

I always learn something from sparring.

Your kick was perfect, so his catch would have to have been ever perfecterrrrrrr

There was no way he could have caught that kick. You can't go by the picture, you have to go by the video. The picture just shows that I started my action to kick him before he started his action to punch.

 

[ShotoNoob]

It was a heel kick to the ribs.

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ok... my kumite response is relevant...

I always learn something from sparring.

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Yes you do. Yes I do too, but much less than you....

There was no way he could have caught that kick. You can't go by the picture, you have to go by the video. The picture just shows that I started my action to kick him before he started his action to punch.

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I'm not sure which kick you are talking about... it's probably the silly way I responded. I agreed your straight kick was dead on.... and it would only be an outside chance the opponent could catch the straight kick.... very outside... So I was affirming your approach & result.
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The heel kick was also tactically proper & accurate against your opponent... It wouldn't work (problably) against me 'cause I would readjust as I said upon that kick. Your straight kick could have caught me if I wasn't focused.... that straight kick of yours was excellent. Unlike boxing brother... my movements are subject to adjustment according to circumstances.... my 1-step kumite is a broad & diverse set of principles... not a bag of pre-programmed tricks....
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Any how, I applaud your videos as fine examples of your training methods and of the sought for results against undisciplined, yet athletically challenging opponents.... The skills you are developing will outmaneuver them....

 

[ShotoNoob]

@Ja Gow... what's your take on this kung fu style? How about the approach to free sparring?

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My first response was that they cut & pasted sport competition onto a venerable old CMA style...

 

[wiz cool c]

You know the expression never box a boxer or wrestle a wrestler. This guy has a big reach advantage over you and is using primarily his hands, I would use defensive low kick every time he comes into your range

 

[JowGaWolf]

@Ja Gow... what's your take on this kung fu style? How about the approach to free sparring?

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My first response was that they cut & pasted sport competition onto a venerable old CMA style...

I watched 6 seconds of it and I'm going to say it's awful just from that combo lol. I'll go back and watch it again. To see if they actually did any real kung fu technique that goes beyond the 6 seconds I saw.

 

[JowGaWolf]

@Ja Gow... what's your take on this kung fu style? How about the approach to free sparring?

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My first response was that they cut & pasted sport competition onto a venerable old CMA style...

Well my initial reaction was correct. It's a bunch of trash and doesn't show any ability to use the techniques that they are said to be studying. Kung fu sparring should use techniques that are from the form training. I think this way about all martial arts systems. What's the point of practicing techniques if they are only going to do basic kicks and punches. I know it was only just a demo free sparring, but that's when it's the easiest to demonstrate a technique during free sparring. Since it was demo of free sparring they could have left the gloves off.

I never heard of fu jow pai so I looked online for one of their forms. I don't know what style the sparring guys were doing because they weren't doing any kung fu.
If they were fu jow pai then some of what this guy is doing should be recognizable when they spar.

This is what it should have looked like. Not the same style of kung fu but it's clear to see who was using kung fu techniques and who wasn't. The only thing I didn't like about this one was that they weren't throwing jabs, crosses and hooks at each other, which is what they will have to deal with in a real fight situation or even a continuous sparring situation.

 

[JowGaWolf]

@Ja Gow... what's your take on this kung fu style? How about the approach to free sparring?

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My first response was that they cut & pasted sport competition onto a venerable old CMA style...

This is bad sparring for learning kung fu. This the exact reason why my kung fu sparring partner looks like a boxer

 

[JowGaWolf]

You know the expression never box a boxer or wrestle a wrestler. This guy has a big reach advantage over you and is using primarily his hands, I would use defensive low kick every time he comes into your range

I agree. never box a boxer or wrestle a wrestler. I don't box and I don't wrestle so I don't need to play in their "sandbox of strengths"

 

[ShotoNoob]

I watched 6 seconds of it and I'm going to say it's awful just from that combo lol. I'll go back and watch it again. To see if they actually did any real kung fu technique that goes beyond the 6 seconds I saw.

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Well Ja, I'm not as not as negative as you. Free sparring is a relatively modern paste on to TMA. So the Master added same.
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There are some aspects of his form that contradict what he teaches.... OTOH... he makes you look 'bad' in other ways...
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Not trying to be personal with you.... just jog your thinking.... and again, the sparring presentations on sparring technique & tactics + mental dimension = depict precisely your approach and how it garners results.... so again kudos for your instructional presentation... top shelf....

 

[ShotoNoob]

This is bad sparring for learning kung fu. This the exact reason why my kung fu sparring partner looks like a boxer

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No he (boxing brother) looks like a boxer because he was a boxer.... There are some differences between the Fu Jaw Pi Master sparring and your boxer.... I'll look later... have to go...
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I agree on balance with the conclusion in your 1st sentence... .and again another reason I avoid free sparring, particularly the conventional-like sport models we largely see here....
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Still, to my eye, there is / are great lessons in how the Fu Jow Pai Master spars here.... in principle especially...
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EDIT: IMO, your free sparring regimen is the correct approach re TMA principles...

 

[ShotoNoob]

Well my initial reaction was correct. It's a bunch of trash and doesn't show any ability to use the techniques that they are said to be studying.

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Nice lay out in your reply.... don't have time now. My initial reaction is that the Master is trying to include sparring because this is the modern convention.... and do it in a way that keeps it sporting & attainable to the majority of students.... So I'm ok personally with him running his program that way.
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Kung fu sparring should use techniques that are from the form training.

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Ideally yes. Yet boxing brother & your other opponent are doing the exact same boxing type style you criticize the Fu Jow Pai demo of doing.... again why I de-emphasize free sparring... while I am outvoted by both you & by the Fu Jow Pai Master.... poor Shotonoob....

I think this way about all martial arts systems. What's the point of practicing techniques if they are only going to do basic kicks and punches.

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right on... and kickboxing / like for the most part.

I know it was only just a demo free sparring, but that's when it's the easiest to demonstrate a technique during free sparring. Since it was demo of free sparring they could have left the gloves off.

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yeah, I gave insight like yours above... And I eschew gloves.... but safety-wise, it's legit to override especially since across-the-board, the modern convention is to begin sparring day 1. The participants have no mental discipline... even lack physical knowledge of what to, re Jai Harman's first opponent was it.... ugly-poor or poor-ugly....

I never heard of fu jow pai so I looked online for one of their forms. I don't know what style the sparring guys were doing because they weren't doing any kung fu.

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Yeah, in form came across as kickboxing.... yet far better TMA than Jai Harman's non-WC MMA vids.... that was really no-TMA whatsoever on any principles level [on kickboxing level--Jai Harman pretty decent & I applaud his work there.].... I give the Fu Jow Pai master credit for TMA principle here...

If they were fu jow pai then some of what this guy is doing should be recognizable when they spar.

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Have to go like I said... So you are doing the great service of keeping Kung fu true to standards.... where the Fu Jow Pai master has departed from standards in the demo....
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Will continue later...
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ADD: This is a TIGER style of kung fu... but not a narrow, rigid TIGER-based style like Shotokan karate. In any event, the style is so demanding that IMO without watering-it-down, so to speak, he probably would attract a less than-commercially viable number of students...
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Tnx for substantial reply....

 

[ShotoNoob]

I agree. never box a boxer or wrestle a wrestler. I don't box and I don't wrestle so I don't need to play in their "sandbox of strengths"

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Traditional karate is way better than boxing or wrestling... so why go down the ladder is one is interested in TMA?
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Here's an interview with the Fu Jow pai Master in the sparring demo

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I don't know how 'Mastery' the man is.... but I wouldn't hesitate to take lessons from him////
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I do know this... the man has worked his 'a*s off to accomplish the curriculum.... and that shows "bucco" in his free sparring demo video.... if you understand mental discipline the way I look @ it....
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key postnote: Compared to the karates.... this TIGER style is off the charts in difficulty & sophistication.... and the specialized style of true CMA, WC Jai Harman claims to train... even more difficult than Fu Jow Pai.... so Jai & Co. .... good luck with that...

 

[JowGaWolf]

I don't know how 'Mastery' the man is.... but I wouldn't hesitate to take lessons from him

The training is the selling point for me. He's correct about the tiger techniques. Gotta have strong fingers, hands, and grip strength. There are some techniques that I know that I would never do in a real fight because my hands aren't conditioned enough to do it without hurting myself.

almost all tiger techniques are useless for me because I don't have the conditioning to that's required.
If a person can't do these types of push ups then they won't be able to do much with tiger without hurting themselves. the conditioning alone is uncomfortable. I can do everything but the finger push us (notice how his hand is in tiger claw when he's doing them) and the flipping from back to front on the wrists.

 

[ShotoNoob]

The training is the selling point for me. He's correct about the tiger techniques. Gotta have strong fingers, hands, and grip strength. There are some techniques that I know that I would never do in a real fight because my hands aren't conditioned enough to do it without hurting myself.

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The hand conditioning is only one of the problematic aspects of actually taking CMA / Tiger Claw to the practical stage... It is quite possible to strengthen ones hands so that the grips used in Tiger Claw or for anything grappling become stronger...

almost all tiger techniques are useless for me because I don't have the conditioning to that's required.

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Hence the wisdom of Gichin Funakoshi in simplifying the TMA techniques for the vast majority....

If a person can't do these types of push ups then they won't be able to do much with tiger without hurting themselves. the conditioning alone is uncomfortable. I can do everything but the finger push us (notice how his hand is in tiger claw when he's doing them) and the flipping from back to front on the wrists.
[edit video]

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Well there you go.... very good. I always found this type of conditioning problematic as well ... and a huge & experimental time sink... But it can yield benefits.... The simplified karate version (and witnessed done @ CMA schools is knuckle push-ups.... re closed fist strength.... all karate-conditioning push ups should be closed fist, IMO>.. and ditch all gloves....
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EDIT: there are some applications self-defense wise that one can use a Tiger claw, the effect of a distraction or against softer tissues...without highly specialized conditioning...

 

[ShotoNoob]

HERE'S MY BLOW-BY-BLOW REVIEW OF YOUR PERSPECTIVE:

1.Well my initial reaction was correct.
2. It's a bunch of trash and doesn't show any ability to use the techniques that they are said to be studying.
3. Kung fu sparring should use techniques that are from the form training.
4. I think this way about all martial arts systems.

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1. Not completely. The Fu Jow Pai Master exhibits a lot of mind / body unity in his movement.... hence mental disciple which is also apparent in how he tactically applies his techniques... On the technical front... he makes very good use of traditional stances, something relatively rare in competition sparring....
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2. Agreed on the kickboxing type technique. But there's gold (or at least kung fu silver) beneath the trash, see reply #1. He also does a lot of head movement & body lean not unlike you tactically... and which I do little of.... I fight more like the traditional curriculum.... upright & directed mentally...
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3. Again, completely agree by traditional standards... People think there is some disconnect between traditional techniques and the sport-kickboxing in that somehow sport kickboxing is what TMA is supposed to be training.... I never got that other than ignorance on the part of all those acting so...

What's the point of practicing techniques if they are only going to do basic kicks and punches. I know it was only just a demo free sparring, but that's when it's the easiest to demonstrate a technique during free sparring. Since it was demo of free sparring they could have left the gloves off.

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By traditional CMA standards, you are dumping CMA and morphing into Jai Harman-type competitor... Again, completely stupid to me... yet I've been criticized tons here for being steadfast... Again, people seems to buy that doing some TMA stuff somehow magically turns them into a super kickboxer-fighter.... silly really.... but emotionally bought by most of sport karateka....

I never heard of fu jow pai so I looked online for one of their forms. I don't know what style the sparring guys were doing because they weren't doing any kung fu. If they were fu jow pai then some of what this guy is doing should be recognizable when they spar.

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Well, it's the Fu Jow Pai Master's version of what he wants to demonstrate... There is a Fu Jow Pai base in what he is doing, IMO... but the actual physical techniques are kickboxing....to me.

Ja Gow's illustration of Fu Jow Pai Tiger Form YT VID

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When i put up a vid like this, the MT heavies all pile on me... Some have said this is garbage, impractical, etc., etc. My view is that this kind of actual fighting is too complicated for most TMA practitioners.... It's very sophisticated to acquire the mental discipline to effect such against real life opponents.... Since my mental discipline principles have been so roundly criticized, I again think the actuall effectiveness for my critics in the use of such CMA techniques is quite limited...
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Ja Gow's illustration of Fu Jow Pai Frees sparring YT VID

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Of course what they are practicing is bona fide.... it's acquiring the physical & mental base sufficient to really be strong & dynamic that is, like your Tiger Claw conditioning, problematic, highly problematic...

This is what it should have looked like. Not the same style of kung fu but it's clear to see who was using kung fu techniques and who wasn't. The only thing I didn't like about this one was that they weren't throwing jabs, crosses and hooks at each other, which is what they will have to deal with in a real fight situation or even a continuous sparring situation.

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Again, I agree with you in principle... And your point about training against boxing-type techniques is of course on point.... for reality testing, self defense, etc...
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Like many of most of my critics, though, you tend to be technique-centric.... If one masters (for practical purposes) the TMA (here CMA) principles... adjustments to other styles of fighting are much more readily accomplished.... This is the key of mental discipline.... I don't continually train against boxing style like you demonstrate.... yet I have never lost to a boxer...... I believe I know a number of kung fu stylists, though, who I really can't match. And it really has to do with a superior TMA base (or higher experience), not the actual techniques... though those are a strong factor when the CMA base is strong also...

 

[ShotoNoob]

HERE'S MY SUMMARY, LOOKING @ WHAT THE Fu Jow Pai Master does WELLl...

This is bad sparring for learning kung fu. This the exact reason why my kung fu sparring partner looks like a boxer

@Ja Gow... what's your take on this kung fu style? How about the approach to free sparring?

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1. Despite the kickboxing technique, his physical movments are quick, accurate and employ his whole body...
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2. He utilizes traditional stances & transitions smoothly and well....
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3. He (unlike you) engages and advances on his opponent right off the bat... and continuously attacks...
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4. He actually has some striking defense, though the exaggerated head & body contortions aren't TMA standards...
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5. His combos (he uses combos) have tactical integrity...
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6. He doesn't rely on creating large distances and all that hyper moving all over footwork and random herky jerky stuff we see in boxing, MMA or sport karate.... He shows that competent traditional mobility from stances is superior in effective exchanges...
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7. He doesn't do the typical sport karate stand & wait & duel like tactic of trying to 'time' the perfect speed shot hence flying in over-committed.... he can fight with versatility.
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8. His movements are relaxed, yet explode fast & smooth.... conveying serious potential power absent a lot of the karate tense muscular action or boxing or Muay Thai heavy body mechanics... I would rate his striking of dynamic quality... that is when striking really works....
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NOT GARBAGE @ ALL, IN MY BOOK... Jai Harman & his Muay Thai-Kickboxing-"WC" against this.. "rots of ruck..."
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EDIT: He's better than me @ sparring (TMA period)....
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EDIT #9: Like me, he is unfazed by feints.... or should I say I'm like him; I'm not fazed by feints... takes excellent mental discipline...

 

[ShotoNoob]

I love these 1-steps. Here's one Ronda Rousey could be training with. Or, better yet, Holly Holm once her technical boxing fails on Ronda this coming weekend... The female instructor is German, Germans can be very disciplined fighters...

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Notice with all the stripes on her belt, she still has trouble with balance on the round kicks.... kicks above the waist are difficult for a large portion of the population, including me... even we see Jeff Speakman struggling.... She does 3 kicks, the last a hook... very challenging...
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Now I can criticize the selection & structure of 1-step techniques... just like all the die-hard SD instructors here @ MT. But that is not the point of the 1-step exercise....
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The point to me is mental discipline. When she slows down and talks you through the exercise... that is where the proverbial TMA "light bulb" should come on... She's presenting a host of traditional karate principles (not the least of which is KIME), not that "My opponent comes @ me and stands like a statute with his arm fixed in a punch..." "Then, I do this fancy guard-technique-triple kick spin & return....."
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Now Ja Gow.. take the Fu Jow Pai free sparring --- IMO the mental discipline demands of training that are 100x this.... So training that way is just too demanding from my perspective & it's overwhelming mentally, by my book. You believe in that approach... and you demonstrate it working for you....

 

[ShotoNoob]

SHE' ALSO A KICK BOXER:

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People take up TMA for sporting reasons.... for recreation, they want to have fun.... So they do kickboxing. I myself would never fight like this....
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Incidentally the male counterpart has a very strong natural physique & mindset for fighting.... watch out for him if he is your opponent...
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NOTE: She abandons her traditional karate guard (rear hand was held too high according to what I was always taught), for this kickboxing cover-up guard. WHY? I have the same question as you... why take karate and use a karate guard in karate class... then leave class for kickboxing school and the karate guard vanishes....????
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Now traditional karate 1-steps have a specific answer, under general TMA principles to defeat this gambit... A time of maximum vulnerability is TIME 1:46, for example; that is when I would block & counter... you only have a split-karate second...
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Any how, this explains the dramatic cultural moves we see to kickboxing form since that form is so popularized and so well embraced.... including among TMA practitioners....