Very interesting taichi anticlinch application

[TSDTexan]

The Way of Least Resistance: Taiji qin-na coaching clinic: step back to ride tiger

 

[Tony Dismukes]

You can see the application more clearly in the video at the end of the article, along with counters for a couple more grappling techniques (wristlock & hip throw).

The problem I see is that all three of the techniques being defended against (clinch+knee, wristlock, hip throw) are performed very, very poorly. They're so fundamentally flawed from the outset that it's easy for the defenses being demonstrated to work. If the attacks were done correctly, the counters shown would be low percentage at best.

 

[Xue Sheng]

Before the fray begins...... allow me to say every posture in taijiquan has multiple applications and how those are used depends on the energy/force being applied... and I simply do not get the need to justify the worth of a style by comparing it to another style, in this case grappling.... now you guys have fun now with the grappling vs the world posts...I'm out

 

[Tony Dismukes]

Before the fray begins...... allow me to say every posture in taijiquan has multiple applications and how those are used depends on the energy/force being applied... and I simply do not get the need to justify the worth of a style by comparing it to another style, in this case grappling.... now you guys have fun now with the grappling vs the world posts...I'm out

I'm not sure Mr. Djurdjevic is trying to justify the worth of his Tai Chi by comparing it to "grappling" (or that he's considering "grappling" to be a singular style.) It seems to me that he's just trying to show some specific applications of the movements within a Chin Na context.

He did use the aikido term for the wristlock being countered, so maybe he was trying to show counters for an Aikido wristlock, a Judo throw, and a Muay Thai clinch. Still, all of those techniques are contained within the Chin Na applications of the arts he has studied.

My complaint is just that the attacks being countered are performed so badly. Since he has presumably studied those techniques within his own system I would expect him to show them more correctly.

 

[Xue Sheng]

I don't think Mr. Djurdjevic is trying to justify the worth of his Tai Chi by comparing it to "grappling either...but it seems to be the yard stick by which we like to compare all things martial arts on MT these days...and it is getting old fast and makes for predictable and boring conversations....

Sorry...I am old and grumpy and more than a little annoyed by it..... miss the old days of martial art...and the old days of MT

 

[drop bear]

I don't think Mr. Djurdjevic is trying to justify the worth of his Tai Chi by comparing it to "grappling either...but it seems to be the yard stick by which we like to compare all things martial arts on MT these days...and it is getting old fast and makes for predictable and boring conversations....

Sorry...I am old and grumpy and more than a little annoyed by it..... miss the old days of martial art...and the old days of MT

So your just going to troll?

 

[geezer]

Sorry...I am old and grumpy and more than a little annoyed by it..... miss the old days of martial art...and the old days of MT

I came on this forum about a year after you, in 2007, and you were grumpy even back then. Heck, it's even in your signature. The last of the original Four Heroic Cynical Curmudgeons.

 

[drop bear]

You can see the application more clearly in the video at the end of the article, along with counters for a couple more grappling techniques (wristlock & hip throw).

The problem I see is that all three of the techniques being defended against (clinch+knee, wristlock, hip throw) are performed very, very poorly. They're so fundamentally flawed from the outset that it's easy for the defenses being demonstrated to work. If the attacks were done correctly, the counters shown would be low percentage at best.

The concept works under the right conditions. Sometimes where higher percentage stuff dosent work. I head snap(which is similar, on larger guys who are very forward pushy. Which can sometimes be very tricky to deal with

 

[Xue Sheng]

So your just going to troll?

you're funny..... If that ain't the pot calling the kettle black I don't know what is....

 

[JowGaWolf]

You can see the application more clearly in the video at the end of the article, along with counters for a couple more grappling techniques (wristlock & hip throw).

The problem I see is that all three of the techniques being defended against (clinch+knee, wristlock, hip throw) are performed very, very poorly. They're so fundamentally flawed from the outset that it's easy for the defenses being demonstrated to work. If the attacks were done correctly, the counters shown would be low percentage at best.

He probably should have let the guy attack so that he can do the technique and then break it down. I don't like when they demo and explain the technique in the same breath.

 

[drop bear]

you're funny..... If that ain't the pot calling the kettle black I don't know what is....

So how do you feel about the technique? Is it viable? Would you tweek it ti be more practical?

 

[Xue Sheng]

So how do you feel about the technique? Is it viable? Would you tweek it ti be more practical?

You don't get it, do you..... and to be honest, I am not surprised

OK let me put it to you this way.

1) did you read post #3? Did you understand what was being said?

let me put it this way; In taijiquan (real taijiquan, not combat, or karate influenced or for health) there is no such thing as "you do A so I do B" and if anyone tells you otherwise they don't know taiji. This is why the style takes so damn long to apply properly. Many stick with the health aspects of it, others start applying things form other martial arts they learned to it (I went that route early on too) and none of them are actually working to use it like it was meant to be used (and I am not making taijiquan friends by saying this).

The response all depends on the direction and amount of force that comes at you and how easy it is to take control of the attackers center. And I seriously doubt every single attack you make, even if it is the same basic type of attack, will use the same exact energy, force and direction of that force.

2) In another thread you admitted to being intentionally argumentative and going with the your martial art is better than anyone else point of view which leads me to believe you are not interested in discussion, learning, teaching or any other person views (based on their background and training), ideas, or training. You are here to argue and force your views down the throats of others and show us all the error of our ways. This does not produce in me any need to answer any of your questions or have a discussion with you.

3) you have never studied taijiquan and if you try and tell me you have I will simply tell you that you are lying. You showed up on MT with a small group who likes to act like they know everything about every art but yet have never trained any of them, or only trained them briefly, or saw it once on YouTube, or meant someone who trained it once and therefore you feel you are now an expert in all arts. Again not really producing in me any desire to have a discussion with you. You may want to look into the cup too full story.

4) I am of the belief, and have told more than a few here on MT, that you are one of our current resident trolls. And frankly in the old days of MT I feel you would have been banned a long time ago. Again, not conducive to me wanting to have a discussion with you or take you seriously.

a) There are only 2 things that ever come to mind when you post

i) You are wrong
ii) and the other is from "Zen in the marital arts by Joe Hyams"
Without going into the whole story it comes down to are you here to help me spend my time, or waste it? and you are here to waste in in my opinion so I shall waste no more time on you, I have wasted to much already.


Now I await your moral indignation, the attacks of you few groupies here and your like trolls....

You have a nice day

 

[drop bear]

You don't get it, do you..... and to be honest, I am not surprised

OK let me put it to you this way.

1) did you read post #3? Did you understand what was being said?

let me put it this way; In taijiquan (real taijiquan, not combat, or karate influenced or for health) there is no such thing as "you do A so I do B" and if anyone tells you otherwise they don't know taiji. This is why the style takes so damn long to apply properly. Many stick with the health aspects of it, others start applying things form other martial arts they learned to it (I went that route early on too) and none of them are actually working to use it like it was meant to be used (and I am not making taijiquan friends by saying this).

The response all depends on the direction and amount of force that comes at you and how easy it is to take control of the attackers center. And I seriously doubt every single attack you make, even if it is the same basic type of attack, will use the same exact energy, force and direction of that force.

2) In another thread you admitted to being intentionally argumentative and going with the your martial art is better than anyone else point of view which leads me to believe you are not interested in discussion, learning, teaching or any other person views (based on their background and training), ideas, or training. You are here to argue and force your views down the throats of others and show us all the error of our ways. This does not produce in me any need to answer any of your questions or have a discussion with you.

3) you have never studied taijiquan and if you try and tell me you have I will simply tell you that you are lying. You showed up on MT with a small group who likes to act like they know everything about every art but yet have never trained any of them, or only trained them briefly, or saw it once on YouTube, or meant someone who trained it once and therefore you feel you are now an expert in all arts. Again not really producing in me any desire to have a discussion with you. You may want to look into the cup too full story.

4) I am of the belief, and have told more than a few here on MT, that you are one of our current resident trolls. And frankly in the old days of MT I feel you would have been banned a long time ago. Again, not conducive to me wanting to have a discussion with you or take you seriously.

a) There are only 2 things that ever come to mind when you post

i) You are wrong
ii) and the other is from "Zen in the marital arts by Joe Hyams"
Without going into the whole story it comes down to are you here to help me spend my time, or waste it? and you are here to waste in in my opinion so I shall waste no more time on you, I have wasted to much already.


Now I await your moral indignation, the attacks of you few groupies here and your like trolls....

You have a nice day

Can you try to stay on topic please? Not everything is about you.

 

[Xue Sheng]

Can you try to stay on topic please? Not everything is about you.

another rather amusing case of the pot calling the kettle black there

as a response to your post and questions, it was on topic...but again you appear to have missed the point..... typical

So you didn't read post #3 or the clarification I put in post #12 so you could better understand....or is it as I suspect you simply do not comprehend what is written...next time I shall try and use smaller words for you....but for now..... like I said...you have wasted enough of my time troll

 

[drop bear]

another rather amusing case of the pot calling the kettle black there

as a response to your post and questions, it was on topic...but again you appear to have missed the point..... typical

So you didn't read post #3 or the clarification I put in post #12 so you could better understand....or is it as I suspect you simply do not comprehend what is written...next time I shall try and use smaller words for you....but for now..... like I said...you have wasted enough of my time troll

So this post?

Before the fray begins...... allow me to say every posture in taijiquan has multiple applications and how those are used depends on the energy/force being applied... and I simply do not get the need to justify the worth of a style by comparing it to another style, in this case grappling.... now you guys have fun now with the grappling vs the world posts...I'm ou

So the topic is your feelings about mma? And how it is not fair how a conversation does not go your way? With this tiny piece of actual information about every posture in taijiquan has multiple applications and how those are used depends on the energy/force being applied..

OK. Found the actual topic in your post. And yes that is pretty consistant with most martial arts.

OK post #12 and the clarification leaving aside the increadably painfully to filter through emotional bits.

So your suggestion is that Thai chi is concept driven rather than technique driven?

 

[wiz cool c]

Before the fray begins...... allow me to say every posture in taijiquan has multiple applications and how those are used depends on the energy/force being applied... and I simply do not get the need to justify the worth of a style by comparing it to another style, in this case grappling.... now you guys have fun now with the grappling vs the world posts...I'm out

Nicely put

 

[wiz cool c]

You don't get it, do you..... and to be honest, I am not surprised

OK let me put it to you this way.

1) did you read post #3? Did you understand what was being said?

let me put it this way; In taijiquan (real taijiquan, not combat, or karate influenced or for health) there is no such thing as "you do A so I do B" and if anyone tells you otherwise they don't know taiji. This is why the style takes so damn long to apply properly. Many stick with the health aspects of it, others start applying things form other martial arts they learned to it (I went that route early on too) and none of them are actually working to use it like it was meant to be used (and I am not making taijiquan friends by saying this).

The response all depends on the direction and amount of force that comes at you and how easy it is to take control of the attackers center. And I seriously doubt every single attack you make, even if it is the same basic type of attack, will use the same exact energy, force and direction of that force.

2) In another thread you admitted to being intentionally argumentative and going with the your martial art is better than anyone else point of view which leads me to believe you are not interested in discussion, learning, teaching or any other person views (based on their background and training), ideas, or training. You are here to argue and force your views down the throats of others and show us all the error of our ways. This does not produce in me any need to answer any of your questions or have a discussion with you.

3) you have never studied taijiquan and if you try and tell me you have I will simply tell you that you are lying. You showed up on MT with a small group who likes to act like they know everything about every art but yet have never trained any of them, or only trained them briefly, or saw it once on YouTube, or meant someone who trained it once and therefore you feel you are now an expert in all arts. Again not really producing in me any desire to have a discussion with you. You may want to look into the cup too full story.

4) I am of the belief, and have told more than a few here on MT, that you are one of our current resident trolls. And frankly in the old days of MT I feel you would have been banned a long time ago. Again, not conducive to me wanting to have a discussion with you or take you seriously.

a) There are only 2 things that ever come to mind when you post

i) You are wrong
ii) and the other is from "Zen in the marital arts by Joe Hyams"
Without going into the whole story it comes down to are you here to help me spend my time, or waste it? and you are here to waste in in my opinion so I shall waste no more time on you, I have wasted to much already.


Now I await your moral indignation, the attacks of you few groupies here and your like trolls....

You have a nice day

This guy has got some wisdom; here is someone I can relate to. You call yourself student ,but i think you are a teacher, o wise one

 

[mograph]

Xue Sheng knows a thing or two about taijiquan.

 

[wiz cool c]

Also got to agree with xue sheng ,it is too tiring to hear the same thing over and over again. Different strokes for different folks. enough already with the everything else is worthless rap, it is played out.im not sure whether these numbskulls want a medal or a monument.[and the toughest internet personality award goes to.....................]

 

[Tez3]

You don't get it, do you..... and to be honest, I am not surprised

OK let me put it to you this way.

1) did you read post #3? Did you understand what was being said?

let me put it this way; In taijiquan (real taijiquan, not combat, or karate influenced or for health) there is no such thing as "you do A so I do B" and if anyone tells you otherwise they don't know taiji. This is why the style takes so damn long to apply properly. Many stick with the health aspects of it, others start applying things form other martial arts they learned to it (I went that route early on too) and none of them are actually working to use it like it was meant to be used (and I am not making taijiquan friends by saying this).

The response all depends on the direction and amount of force that comes at you and how easy it is to take control of the attackers center. And I seriously doubt every single attack you make, even if it is the same basic type of attack, will use the same exact energy, force and direction of that force.

2) In another thread you admitted to being intentionally argumentative and going with the your martial art is better than anyone else point of view which leads me to believe you are not interested in discussion, learning, teaching or any other person views (based on their background and training), ideas, or training. You are here to argue and force your views down the throats of others and show us all the error of our ways. This does not produce in me any need to answer any of your questions or have a discussion with you.

3) you have never studied taijiquan and if you try and tell me you have I will simply tell you that you are lying. You showed up on MT with a small group who likes to act like they know everything about every art but yet have never trained any of them, or only trained them briefly, or saw it once on YouTube, or meant someone who trained it once and therefore you feel you are now an expert in all arts. Again not really producing in me any desire to have a discussion with you. You may want to look into the cup too full story.

4) I am of the belief, and have told more than a few here on MT, that you are one of our current resident trolls. And frankly in the old days of MT I feel you would have been banned a long time ago. Again, not conducive to me wanting to have a discussion with you or take you seriously.

a) There are only 2 things that ever come to mind when you post

i) You are wrong
ii) and the other is from "Zen in the marital arts by Joe Hyams"
Without going into the whole story it comes down to are you here to help me spend my time, or waste it? and you are here to waste in in my opinion so I shall waste no more time on you, I have wasted to much already.


Now I await your moral indignation, the attacks of you few groupies here and your like trolls....

You have a nice day

This is where we need the little bowing man from the 'old' forum. If it were still here I'd click it multiple times.
Thank you for posting that.