Taichi push hand

[JowGaWolf]

TMA trains to fight a person they hope to never see again, for that matter, they hope to never fight in the first place

And before it starts.. This is in the context of training a TMA for the purpose of fighting in the context of defending against an attacker on the street, where there isn't that level of trust that is found in competitive fighting or sparring. It does not mean that everyone who trains a TMA trains with the goal of self-defense or actual use (application). Thinking that you are training for self-defense is not the same as actually doing it. One can "Think that they are training for fighting." , but in reality they are training incorrectly but don't realize it.

I thought I would just add that to your statement. You know how things can get if you aren't specific to the point lol.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

And I wrote a taichi book ...

There’s some discussion on timing, methods of countering incoming force and methods of issuing force.

No discussion on leg sweep, throwdowns or punching someone in the face tho.

If your Taiji book has no MA application, 100 years from today, people will say that you

- don't understand Taiji application.
- try to hide Taiji secret and not willing to share.

In both cases, it will be bad for your Taiji reputation.

 

[JowGaWolf]

If your Taiji book has no MA application, 100 years from today, people will say that you

- don't understand Taiji application.
- try to hide Taiji secret and not willing to share.

In both cases, it will be bad for your Taiji reputation.

I agree there's a big difference in understanding between doing an technique and applying a technique., He wouldn't have to wait 100 years for people to say that. All of that can happen within a day. If he went to an MMA group, people will say those things within an hour.

Your post is something that someone who cares about application would say. I'm similar. I am quick to say that someone "doesn't understand Martial Arts application." Even if I don't know the system in discussion. I just know from my own experience that knowing how to apply a martial art technique is a much bigger understanding of that technique. It's not ego speaking as it applies to everything. Someone can go through the movements of playing the guitar and not have the skill set to actually play the guitar. Knowing how to play the guitar requires a deeper understanding than just knowing the motions.

I see martial arts the same way.

But with that said, you and I are biased because application means a lot to us. In our minds it shouldn't separated.

 

[Zeny]

If your Taiji book has no MA application, 100 years from today, people will say that you

- don't understand Taiji application.
- try to hide Taiji secret and not willing to share.

In both cases, it will be bad for your Taiji reputation.

Get a copy then do a review?

Thank you for your support

 

[JowGaWolf]

Get a copy then do a review?

I see you have your eyes on the goal. I can't blame you for that. Keep that focus. I'm sure there are lots of people who will buy what you are selling. You are training a system where most of the customers only care about health and have very little interest in fighting or learning how to fight.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

Get a copy then do a review?

I'm only interested in the combat side of Taiji.

Many years ago, I was interested in to bring the leg skill back into Taiji. Today, I'm no longer interested in doing that.

 

[Zeny]

Why not? There is a free preview copy which is from cover to chapter 3

You can give your opinion (whether good or bad, both welcome) after you have seen the book

I have comfortable earnings and don’t need the income from the book, but as I have spent a lot of time and effort on it, getting a few cups of coffee or meals out of it is also nice

 

[Xue Sheng]

for anyone interested in some tai chi push hands demonstration...

I am not disagreeing with any of this, other than the push hands videos you have been posting have more to do with the 13 postures usage. But I am wondering why you have spammed so many of the taijiquan post with videos

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

for anyone interested in some tai chi push hands demonstration...

If you train how to control your opponent's arms, why don't you also train how to control his leg/legs too? Will it be better to push your opponent down instead of just to push him away?

If you can just add shin bite and reverse shin bite into the Taiji PH, The Taiji PH will have much more combat value.

 

[Xue Sheng]

what's with the gatekeeping? honestly, i am appreciative of any new content being posted on this forum, as things have been pretty dead in this forum. The last post i see on this thread is March 7... thats like 5 months ago. please stop this kind of talk. the minute this forum starts going down that road is when this forum will die and from the looks of things, it may already be too late.

please re-evaluate your position on this. if you don't agree with someone's post, just keep your mouth shut about it. unless the post is hurting someone in some way, i really dont understand the need for replies like yours Xue Sheng.

the video posted clearly has very much to do with push hands practice. in fact, it is one of the few videos i have seen on this entire forum that really demonstrates and clearly explains what is actually occurring in push hands during push (ahn). it avoids the mystical crap that is so prevalent in tai chi today that frankly gets you nowhere... Im new to tai chi and i am trying to absorb as much information as i can so i appreciate any and all posts.

frankly, ive been a lurker on this forum for a while, but i recently found what i believe to be a good school and some regular push hands practice partners who are way way above my level, and i am finally beginning to feel like i am making forward progress. i know there are many people out there who know exactly the frustration i am talking about. lets keep the information flowing and not try to shut anyone down unless they are breaking the rules or hurting people

I really don't understand your reaction at all. No need to re-evaluate anything, not even any gate keeping. So calm down, relax, breathe, all I did was ask a question as it applies to the large number of video posts for the same person. So no need for defensiveness or attacks.

as for the video, I'm sorry, but it is using push hands, and it is a fine video, it is just more about the 13 postures, of which "ahn' (an) is one of them, while using push hands.

 

[Xue Sheng]

sir, when you talk about the 13 postures, what are you even talking about? the 13 postures literally encompasses everything about tai chi.

13 postures is the 8 energies and 5 directions. ward off, roll back, press, push, shoulder stroke, split, pull down, elbow strike, advance, retreat, look left, gaze right, central equilibrium. that encompasses everything within tai chi. push hands uses the 13 postures. you cannot do push hands without the 13 postures. hell, you cant do anything without utilizing the 13 postures in some way. so your statement that the video in question "is just more about the 13 postures" just doesnt even make sense as a criticism or comment. according to your logic, you could say the same thing about any and every aspect of tai chi.

this video specifically looks at ahn or push. but the video is showing how it is done within push hands, how to issue in push hands properly. how you cant shove. how you have to stay empty in the upper body until you have solidified your structure underneath your opponent. this is all extremely relevant information in terms of how to do push hands and the principles on display here are not just limited to push, but are applicable to all postures/energies. i will even go so far as to say this video demonstrates the highest level of tai chi application i have seen in this entire forum, full stop.

i was so happy to see this video that when i saw your reply criticizing it and looking down your nose at it, i even registered for an account just so i could reply and say no! we need more of this, not less.

whoever OP is, sure he might have posted videos in several different places, but he didnt spam anything. from what i can see, he posted videos relevant to each thread topic, by the way in topics that hadn't had a new post in months. what is the problem with that? isnt that why this forum exists? you may try to hide it, but for some reason you have a problem with someone posting material in this forum. i just dont understand that at all when these are the first new posts in literally months.

finally, i am relaxed. it is you that needs to relax. i am not the one attacking or being defensive, you are the one attacking and being defensive, and that is clear to see as you have criticized the first post on this thread in 5 months, saying it is more about 13 postures than push hands, implying that it doesn't belong here. if that isn't gatekeeping, then what is it?

no, for the first time in a long time, I am excited. whoever this OP is, he just opened my eyes to an entirely new teacher/school that i never heard of before and that is the entire reason for this forum to exist. thank you martialtalk for providing a platform where this information could be posted and shared. this is exactly why i am here. and this sifu hairston seems to be extremely proficient with tai chi application. so lets not piss on whoever this guy is and accuse him of "spamming" videos as you say. i have the opposite opinion. i wish he would post more videos. i have been down a youtube rabbit hole in the last 24 hours watching nearly every one of the videos that sifu hairston has on his youtube page.

Do you know how many times on MT, someone has shown up, posted something then got challenged or questions and then went and made one or more profile to be support what they said or to be confrontational...not saying that is what is happening here, but it is a bit suspicious.

The 13 postures is part of taijiquan and 13 postures can be utilized in push hands, but there is a lot more about push hands and taijiquan that does not include the 13 postures. As a matter of fact there are a lot more postures than 13 in taijiquan, all of which have applications, that are not part of the 13 postures.

You are either defending the videos that I don't understand why you are defending when all I did was ask a question and say it was mre 13 postures than push hands. But not once did I attack, berate or belittle the content or you are simply choosing to be confrontational for reason I do not understand.

I will say your above post shows you have a lot to about taijiquan.

You claim to appreciate the content, yet you seem bent on turning this into a flame war. Which by the way i not good advertising for the videos

 

[Xue Sheng]

Very interesting how you were the first person to look down your nose and criticize a post, yet you are accusing me of doing it.

Funny how it doesnt count when you do it to others yet you are hypersensitive when you get a taste of your own medicine.

I am a long time viewer of this forum who has been upset that there has been literally zero activity here for over 5 months. I thought this forum was dead. That's why when someone new posts some seemingly interesting videos, and I see you criticizing it, I decided to DEFEND the new posts/activity by pointing out it's good for the forum.

Do you know how often on MT someone new posts something and is shouted down and piled on by others who criticize and say then dont know what they are talking about? Or that they are wrong? What do you think happens after that? The person says geez this forum forum not friendly to new people and they stop interacting. The stop sharing. they stop discussing.

And you are saying I have a lot to learn???? You're only butthurt right now because someone called you out. I only registered an account to defend someone new with good content from being needlessly criticized when hes the first new person to post material on here in months.

You do realize there is a certain type of poster whose tactics you are using don’t you?

You are adding an entire narrative to what I posted that does not exist and you are seeing a lot more emotion in it than is there.

I never criticized the video, all I said was it was it was 13 postures not push hands. And as far as you having a lot to learn about taijiquan that was based on your post about the 13 postures and the fact that you seem to know nothing about all of the push hands training and drills that have nothing to do with the 13 postures. It is that which tells me you have a lot to learn.

And as I said, I never criticized the video, never said they were wrong, never said the person in the video did not know what they were talking about. Even though there were lot posted in multiple threads. I was wondering about the multitude of videos without any text. But I never criticized the videos, so I do not know where you are getting that from. All I said is that it was 13 postures, meaning more 13 postures than push hands. However If I did see something wrong, I would point it out and there would be no question and no need to put words in my mouth that I never said or typed.

As to butt-hurt, no, not at all. More dismayed than anything else at your continual repose and accusations to things I never said or even implied have me a bit confused. As for calling me out, you put a lot more impotence on your posts than I do, and you are not calling someone out if you are making up things and responding to things they never said or even implied.

And if this has been going on for 5 months, why did you not register before and defend someone. I have my doubts about your sincerity here. If you are the poster then discuss it, if you are the teacher in the video this type of response does not bode well for your students, if you are a student, you need to relax and calm down. And the CMA section has been incredibly quiet for much more than 5 months. It has been mostly the Wing Chun guys posting in it these days, and even they are posting less and less

But I have allowed you to waste of my time long enough and I will no longer allow that to go on. Please feel free to respond, rail, argue, accuse. make-up things and the like.…..I am done allowing you to waste my time

Have a nice day

 

[isshinryuronin]

Dear Nimwit,

Thank you for being the guardian and protector of MT. No doubt your long and active affiliation with this site has instilled you with a deep sense of ownership. Oh. This is only your 2nd day here!
Thanks for stopping by, but I'm sure there are other sites that would LOVE your input and appreciate you more.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

Why the leg control is not part of the Taiji PH? Does anybody have the answer?

 

[Xue Sheng]

Why the leg control is not part of the Taiji PH? Does anybody have the answer?

it is part of taiji push hands, especially in Chen style.....

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

it is part of taiji push hands, especially in Chen style.....

Yang Taiji has 7 star stance in

- hand playing lute,
- defending hand,
- step forward to 7 star.

The 7 star stance is used to control your opponent's leading leg. But Yang Taiji guys just don't use it in PH.

 

[Oily Dragon]

Well, it's not called "push legs".

Shou is shou.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

Well, it's not called "push legs".

Shou is shou.

If you use 7 star stance to control your opponent's back leg when you push, he will fall. This skill already exist in the Taiji system, why not just use it?

 

[Diaitadoc]

Why the leg control is not part of the Taiji PH? Does anybody have the answer?

Three reasons:

1) Push Hands is a beginner practice meant to teach basic principles of balance, bracing, timing & positional control against resisting opponents in order to prepare students for the more rigorous practices of San shou & Shuai jiao.

2) Push hands is a progressive practice intended to start from the simplest scenario (fixed step) & progress to the most complex scenario (moving step with trips & sweeps) before it becomes something else (San shou or Shuai Jiao).

3) most Taiji schools have forgotten this progression & focus on push hands as though it were the end goal / ultimate expression of TaijiQuan Combat, believing Instead that they will develop some sort of supernatural abilities to deal with any touch they receive. so they get stuck at either the moving step or sometimes even the fixed step push hands level, without continuing the progression (which would logically include leg picks/catches/controls at the next level, ie. Shuai Jiao without the funny jackets).

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

Shuai Jiao without the funny jackets.

The SJ jacket is also called "hero skin". When you have it on, if anybody challenges you, you have to accept the challenge and you cannot refuse it. When you have it on, if you get hurt (or killed), you cannot sue anybody.