A few taichi tips

[ChenAn]

Inflated rubber ball is on of the way to interpret peng jin. But I also found this analogy can be understood in different ways. For example Wan Haizhun description above (represented by Chen Zhenglei lineage) a bit different from Chen method represented by Chen Zhaokui lineage.( mostly folks in Beijing )

Similarly to concept of "sinking" which in my method described simply as xia zhong interpreted differently within different branches of Chen family taiji


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[Zeny]

Thanks for the articles on 'peng jin'. They are interesting and thought provoking. The wang hai jun article is especially well written.

Since we are on this subject of 'peng jin', let me digress a little bit from my original intended flow. It is fascinating to think that we may both be practising an art called 'taichi' and yet our methods are so different that our respective art cannot be the one and the same. Then in these circumstances please don't regard what i say as 'tips', but rather a story told by someone living in a far away land.

In the wang article it is said that it is necessary for the body to be sung and 'connected' to achieve 'peng jin'. Thus this 'connectedness' is an important element. The art of taichi as i practise it emphasises 'disconnectedness' instead. This will definitely come as a surprise to those who have been training connectedness in their taichi. Let me explain.

When i write i intentionally refrain from explaining things from a classical perspective. My ideas should be much easier to grasp if i write as much as possible in plain every day english.

Prior to practising taichi the human body starts out as a piece of rock. The first step in taichi practice is to use a hammer and split the rock into two pieces. Next is to crush the two pieces into four pieces, then eight, and so on. The desired end result is for the rock to be transformed into many grains of fine sand. Each grain of sand exists independently and is not connected to any other grain of sand. Once the body has been transformed into fine sand (not literally of course), i will attack and defend as sand. If i hit you with a piece of wood you can block or deflect it. If i grab a bunch of sand and throw them at you how do you defend it? If you push my upper chest only the sand at the area pushed is affected. The sand at the other body parts (such as waist and feet) are totally unaffected by the push. Thus the push does nothing at all to my root.

My next post will further explain this subject.

 

[Xue Sheng]

The art of taichi as i practise it emphasises 'disconnectedness' instead. This will definitely come as a surprise to those who have been training connectedness in their taichi. Let me explain.

And what style of Taijiquan might that be, that you practice, that emphasizes disconnectedness?

 

[Zeny]

Huang style

I noticed a typo in my earlier post. I mean to say cheng man ching, not cheng man ming.

 

[Xue Sheng]

If that is from Huang Sheng Shyan, then that comes from Zheng Manqing (Cheng Manching), who did not teach disconnectedness. Where did this disconnectedness come from?

 

[Zeny]

I was taught disconnectedness by a senior practitioner of the huang style. However there is disagreement even among huang style practitioners on what is the correct manner of practice. This is why i said earlier that my views do not necessarily represent the views of other practitioners of my style.

I would however respectfully disagree with you that huang sheng shyan did not teach disconnectedness. The senior practitioner i learnt disconnectedness from is a direct and senior student of huang sheng shyan. The rock example that i gave you above comes from another direct and senior student of huang sheng shyan. I did not invent this particular example myself.

But let's not have this thread become a discussion about styles. Like i said these are my personal ideas and you are welcome to view them with a critical eye. If you disagree with them please do share your views. I would love to hear personal experiences of 'peng jin' from the followers of this thread.

 

[Xue Sheng]

Not looking to argue, looking for clarification and generally that starts with style, mine, by the way, is Yang from a student of Tung Ying Chieh, also trained some Chen, a little of that (very little) with Chen Zhenglei

I however do not agree with anything referred to as disconnectedness in Taijiquan, without connection to your root you have nothing, IMO and discussion about the training of sung or chen are premature without connection and pengjin would be impossible if one were disconnected.

But I have been reading your posts, some I agree, some I do not, that is human nature.

 

[Zeny]

To continue on from my previous post on disconnectedness, once you have achieved sufficient sung, chen, negative movement and disconnectedness, it is time to figure out how to use them to perform 'fajin'. After all, you have worked hard to earn a lot of money, now is the time to spend them.

'Fajin' is the most elementary of taichi skills, but one most desired by taichi practitioners. Who wouldn't want to push a person and have that person bounce back 2-3 metres with little effort. However it is the most elementary because with correct practice, one will definitely acquire this skill, it is just a matter of time. Problem is, even if you master this skill, it is completely useless against a person who has mastered 'huajin', as you cannot apply force onto empty space. Thus in terms of hierarchy, 'huajin' is the higher level skill, and the one which is more difficult to train and acquire.

To understand fajin, let's imagine you have no taichi training. When you push someone, your hands would be connected to your elbows, and the elbows would be connected to your shoulders. The push would then be performed with the combined effort of the muscles of these three components of the human body. With more training in pushing, you will also begin to use the muscles of the body, waist and feet at the same time to produce an even bigger force. However, this is not fajin. To perform fajin, one must push using a completely different method.

What then is this elusive 'fajin' method? This will come in the next post.

 

[Zeny]

To perform fajin one must have root (chen). To have root one must have sung. The more sung one acquires the better is one’s chen. The better is one’s chen, the better can one fajin. To bounce someone 2-3 metres, one’s chen must be better than the opponent. You cannot bounce someone who has a better chen than you.

Here’s a simple exercise one can carry out with a partner to ‘feel’ the correct method of fajin. This exercise assumes you have a pretty decent root. If you have little or no root this exercise will not show you anything. Find someone who has a lesser root than you, or someone who has no root. It doesn’t matter how good is your partner’s root, as long as it is less good than yours. As an example, let’s say you have 300 points of root, your partner’s root can be 290 points or below.

Now follow these steps:

1) Have your partner stand in front of you. They can tense up or relax and sink, it doesn’t matter (though they will be easier to bounce if they tense up). Until you have successfully ‘felt’ how to fajin, simply ask them to stand upright. After you have ‘felt’ and know how to fajin, your partner can use a more stable stance, it doesn’t matter at that point.

2) Stand upright, relax and sink.

3) Raise your arms, extend your fingers and place all 10 fingers on your partner’s upper chest, with only your fingertips touching your partner (if your partner is female, ask them to hug themselves and place your 10 fingers on her folded arms)

4) Now slowly, gently and most importantly, ‘negatively’ (read my coffee cup example in an earlier post) extend your arms and fingers in the direction of your partner. Your shoulders, elbow, wrist, and fingers must all be sung and ‘disconnected’ (like a metal chain, and not like a stick or acting as one unit)

5) If done correctly, you will feel as if your partner has no root at all and you can ‘tip’ them over. The feeling is as if your partner is an empty coke bottle and when you lightly touch the bottle, the bottle ’tips' over and falls.

Once you are very familiar with this alternative method of pushing, and once you have trained enough to be able to move ‘negatively' with speed, this exercise can be done with the palm of your hands and with greater speed. At this point, anyone who has less root than you can be bounced easily and with little effort, no matter what their stance is (low, high, stable etc). You will feel like your opponent is an empty coke bottle and can be flung easily and without using any force at all.

My next post will explain how to 'supercharge' your fajin.

 

[ChenAn]

In my understanding in order to perform fajin one must posses jins first. Most people demonstrating fali and thinking that is fajin.
Again definition of sung is very deceptive. I like comparison with disconnectedness more. Why ?Because it represent complex realashsonihip between yin and yang. Disconnected relationship may connected in certain order to fold or generate power.


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[Zeny]

The 'supercharge' post will come after this. Let me digress a bit. As i said above fajin requires sung, chen, negative movement and disconnectedness. Why is disconnectedness also a requirement? Let me explain.

Fajin requires root, and root comes from sung. If you connect your shoulders all the way to your fingertips, you are creating tension and this raises your center of gravity and destroys your root. If your partner has a decent root, your push will be absorbed by your partner's root and channelled to the ground. To overcome your partner's root, you need to start using more and more force with your arms and upper body and this is no longer fajin.

On the other hand, if your partner connects his arms or upper body, he raises his centre of gravity and destroys his own root. If he does this, he can be bounced with even less effort (not that it requires a lot of effort in the first place!). You can ask your partner to try consciously connecting his arms (he need not do anything with the arms) when trying the above fajin exercise and feel the end result. You will realise that every point of chen counts and you don't want to do anything to reduce it.

A connected push can also be deflected very easily with 'huajin'. It is much harder to deflect a push from an arm that is like a metal chain. Once you reach the 'sand' level arm, only a practitioner with a better 'sand' level arm can deflect your push. Once i explain the mechanics of 'huajin' in future posts you will see why this is so.

Taichi takes self defence very seriously. A lot of training and effort is put in to ensure that your push (or attack) is not deflected. If your push is deflected even once, it is game over because you will not be able to defend the inevitable counterattack. A connected arm is much easier to deflect as well as rendering oneself vulnerable to the application of 'lianjin' by the opponent. From a classical perspective, this 'lianjin' is one of the four skills of taichi push hands (zhan, nian, lian, sui). I will explain what is 'lianjin' in a future post as that deserves a separate discussion on its own.

 

[ChenAn]

I think Zeny made a good point. As I mentioned before traditional taiji got washed out. All is left is health aspect and push hands practice that involves some degree of cooperation.

A "sung" practitioner who get punched for example to the rib will suffered more unfortunate consequences. This is greatly due to loss of traditional training where tui shou serves purpose of developing certain skill set, not ultimate combat achievement . Sung in tui shou won't punish your incapable to receive punch body .

In self defense scenario it's unlikely that opponent will commit in the most convenient way to taiji practitioner. People who ever competed most likely aware of this.

So for the most part contemporary taiji other than for health purposes can only serve as supplemental training to other martial art.

A good example of it could be competitions that took place year or so ago when young Chen fighters were sent to compete against Muay Thai fighters. In order to prevail in martial art arena Chen fighter had actually learn boxing and kicks - exact part that their family art at current stage cannot offer.

Back to taiji tips. Sung is the great concept; however, one can sink without being completely relaxed. There are many internal martial arts that never emphasize "relaxed" state as it understood by taiji practitioners.

The only Chen family scholar who ever layout all theoretical work for Chen family gong fu - Chen Xin has never mention "relaxation". Although he emphasized sansijin (silk reeling) and complex relationships between yin and yang. For example in pure state of yin taiji practitioner simply collapse. Therefore there should be yang within yin.

Peng jin - the most fundamental jin in taiji arsenal, when achieved, can easily recycle incoming energy and send it back to the aggressor. That was Cheng Manching impressively demonstrated in his time. Nevertheless, peng jin is one of many jins that serves verity of purposes. It's important but not sufficient for well rounded taiji fighter.

So the bottom line. While "tai chi tips" may represent particular branch of taiji method. I think it can hardly speak for the whole taiji. There are many contemporary taiji masters that never even tried their skill in actual combat and they only serve purpose of tradition transmitters limited only to their own understanding. So we have what we have.

P. S. Sorry for the long post





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[Xue Sheng]

In my understanding in order to perform fajin one must posses jins first. Most people demonstrating fali and thinking that is fajin.
Again definition of sung is very deceptive. I like comparison with disconnectedness more. Why ?Because it represent complex realashsonihip between yin and yang. Disconnected relationship may connected in certain order to fold or generate power.


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Define Fali
Define Fajin

Chen Zhenglei

Also I do not see the relationship between Yin and Yang that as disconnected, they are part of the same thing. You cannot have one without the other and when you have to much of one it becomes the other

 

[ChenAn]

Xu Sheng,
For simplicity I'm going to use analogy of the huge clock which consists of multiple gears and connection. By itself they represent different units. Those units must be operational on their own. Consider this state as disconnected set of gears.

In order for clock to work all those gears must work in certain order/sequence.

If you can use all of those gears you poses fali - refine physical force.

if you can use all those gears in order which make clock works this is fajin - internal power.

Thanks for CZL video. I managed to meet all "four tigers" except Wan Xian.

I used to be CZL lineage, but I no longer practice village version.


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[Zeny]

Thanks for the chen zhenglei video. This manner of fajin is different from my manner of fajin so I will not comment on it.

The fajin as i practise it emphasises sung, root and softness. When i push my partner's body, they feel some movement, but no force, and they are flung 2-3 metres away. There is no tensing or hardening of the arms upon contact, the arms stay sung and soft throughout. I have explained the mechanics of it above and it is up to the reader to explore it if they want to. What i said explains in plain english the taichi classics which say:

"Rooted in the feet
Generated from the legs
Controlled by the waist
Manifested through the fingers"

My upcoming 'supercharging' post will explain "fajin is like shooting an arrow".

 

[Zeny]

Why is fajin like shooting an arrow? To shoot an arrow you first need to draw the bow, take aim and only then release the arrow. Without drawing the bow, the arrow cannot be shot or even if shot, it will have no energy.

In my exercise above i asked you to stand upright. That exercise is designed to allow you to 'feel' the correct method of pushing, not for you to actually perform full fajin.

To actually fajin, you need to sung your whole body totally, then do the forward stance (as in the ji (press) posture of the form), then slightly and directly lower your waist (thus lowering your stance, like a lift going down). Lowering the stance means drawing the bow. At this point pay attention to your lower legs (the part between the knee and the feet). Consciously make sure that part is completely sung. After that activate 'houjin' (rear energy) by straightening the rear leg (your stance will now rise in height). As you perform 'houjin' extend your arms and palms at your partner's centre of gravity (aiming the arrow) in a sung and disconnected manner and with negative movement. If you do this correctly you will feel that your partner is extremely light and floating and can be flung with no muscular effort or difficulty. On the other hand your partner will feel that you have even better chen, like 300 points going to 400 points.

Performing 'houjin' is what is meant by energy is 'generated from the legs'. Closing the distance between you and your partner by moving the waist is what is meant by 'controlled by the waist'.

My next post will talk about 'lianjin' of zhan, nian, lian, sui and how to use this in conjunction with fajin.

 

[Xue Sheng]

Xu Sheng,
For simplicity I'm going to use analogy of the huge clock which consists of multiple gears and connection. By itself they represent different units. Those units must be operational on their own. Consider this state as disconnected set of gears.

In order for clock to work all those gears must work in certain order/sequence.

If you can use all of those gears you poses fali - refine physical force.

if you can use all those gears in order which make clock works this is fajin - internal power.

Thanks for CZL video. I managed to meet all "four tigers" except Wan Xian.

I used to be CZL lineage, but I no longer practice village version.


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Thank You, interesting analogy

I have meant only 1 of the four tigers and talked with a student of another. I meant and trained with CZL (never in the lineage though, I'm in a Lineage from Tung Ying Chieh - Yang style) and had a great conversation with Ren Guangxi (Student of CXW)

 

[Xue Sheng]

"Rooted in the feet
Generated from the legs
Controlled by the waist
Manifested through the fingers"

That is connected and that is what Chen Zhenglei is doing

 

[mograph]

I think that Zeny uses "connected" to mean "stiff" or "rigid," right?

... while to the rest of us, "connected" means that the connected components accept feedback from each other (through proprioception, usually) but remain flexible: moving at joints (yin, perhaps), yet also able to align in order to transmit force when necessary (yang, most likely).

Similarly, "disconnected" implies an inability to transmit/receive feedback between components. This sacrifices a unified, ground-to-hand application of force when necessary. For example, we often see this disconnection when practitioners stop the waist & legs while continuing to move the arms: this is a gross application of the principle, while the fine application relates to sensitivity between components.

I recommend that, since communication is the goal of analogies, that we maintain the existing usage of "connected" (working together) and "disconnected" (not working together) in our analogies.

 

[Zeny]

Mograph, when i use the word 'disconnected' i literally mean that the joints are moving together (coordinated) but at the same time not connected to one another. For example if you touch my hand, you won't be able to feel or affect my elbow or shoulder. Only my hand is affected by your touch. At the same time the joints need not align to transmit force or to push someone. When you are able to do this, the benefits of the root will be fully utilised and you will be amazed by the subsequent applications. In my experience, it is not easy and indeed, not many are able to achieve this.

Let me illustrate what i mean. Imagine your arm is a rope. If you push one end of the rope, only that end is moved, the rest of the rope is not affected by your push. But a rope is 'dead', if you hold one end of the rope and raise it, the rest will fall to the ground due to gravity. Thus the rope cannot push someone. However the human body is not 'dead'. It can be sung but at the same time it is kept in the air (and not drop down) by our 'yi' (mind intend). Thus the human arm can be trained to become a 'live' rope that can push. There is no need to wrap the rope around a stick to push. That is why the classics say 'use yi and not li'.

CZL certainly believes in what he is doing and i have no quarrel with that. His is a different art than mine and his fajin certainly looks like it can seriously hurt someone. Any cat that can catch a mouse is a good cat. But what i am offering you is the story that we do it differently in our little corner of the world. We never practise 'peng jin' the way you understood it. We put a great deal of practice into breaking down our body into smaller components. And once we are able to do this, we find that what we can do subsequently during push hands is very interesting.