Used up Tooth brush and chewed gum...

[WaterGal]

If you are right, (and I think you are) all of that is the parent's job. So why are we inviting the schools in to it?

Because parents aren't/weren't. If every parent taught their child about how/why their body is changing, what sex is, how to not get pregnant/STDs, what is consent, etc, sex ed wouldn't be necessary. But they don't, and this stuff is absolutely vital information for every person to know.

But a parent teaching (or school for that matter) abstinence, if followed, will prevent all that. Why is a 'don't do it' program useless?

Because it doesn't work. Studies have shown that teens who are taught "abstinance only" have almost as much sex as teens who are taught about birth control, and are more likely to get pregnant and STDs, because they're not using protection properly.

 

[WaterGal]

All things being equal would you prefer you wife to have been with 5 guys before you or 50?

Why would he care? I've never asked Mr WaterGal how many women he slept with before we met, and I couldn't care less. 5, 50, what difference does it make if someone wants to commit to you?

 

[Steve]

And therein lies the problem with our education system today. The education system should NOT be teaching "flavors" of anything, they should be teaching facts. If facts are presented, it is up to the parents to teach proper morals, religion, ideology. Those are things that I taught my children, and I didn't care for the schools attempts to counter my teaching.

While schools should be teaching facts, certainly, we should be teaching skills. Critical thinking, for example, is a skill that kids should be learning.

I agree with the idea that the most successful people in business and technology are those who can rapidly learn, unlearn and relearn. Learning, unlearning and relearning is a skill and kids should learn it.

So, schools should be teaching facts AND skills. And in order to learn critical thinking and analysis skills, we have to challenge them with nuanced subject matter. Philosophy, religion, politics and other subjects are, IMO, ideal because if you're doing it right, it forces kids to acknowledge that there are multiple sides to any issue.

Schools should not advocate a particular position. I would have a real problem with a school advocating one religion over another or one political position over another. But I'd LOVE IT if they took a complex, nuanced issue (Such as, "Should sex ed be taught in schools?") and facilitated a discussion presenting multiple sides to the issue.

One of the biggest problems I see with our education system now is that we don't seem to be emphasizing the skills aspect of the education and are focusing too much on facts.

 

[ballen0351]

Okay, thanks, ballen. I appreciate your answer, and it sounds like we have a different understanding of what a false dillemma really is. That makes sense.

What makes your question a false dichotomy isn't the question itself. It's your insistence that the only legitimate answers are one of two options you provide, and you disregarded any others. For example, "Do you like eggs?" isn't a false dichotomy. The question is, if genuine, a simple one to answer. Possible answers would, as you say, include "yes," "no," or a variant of "it depends." Limiting the answers to Yes or No is what makes it a false dilemma. So, as you say, "Do you like eggs?" Good. "Do you like eggs? Yes or no." Bad.

In the same way, "Which would you prefer, a person with 5 prior sexual partners or 50?" Fine. "Which would you prefer, and you must choose one or the other." False dilemma.

Make sense?

Except when given choice between possible anserwers not a yes or no question. Would you prefer closer to 5 or closer to 50. You have a preference even if its slight if you thought about it for a second you could answer it. Even if the preference is very slight like you don't really care but I choose A. You refuse to answer because your answer would agree with my point that given the choice people would choose less then more if everything else were the same

 

[ballen0351]

Why would he care? I've never asked Mr WaterGal how many women he slept with before we met, and I couldn't care less. 5, 50, what difference does it make if someone wants to commit to you?

The question wasn't do you care how many the question was if they told you the number would you rather it be low or high? If you and your husband were talking about the past and he said you know honey your number _____. Would you rather hear 5 or 50 come out of his mouth. Of he did give a really high number what would you think?

Don't bother answering because I really don't care anymore.

 

[ballen0351]

Because parents aren't/weren't. If every parent taught their child about how/why their body is changing, what sex is, how to not get pregnant/STDs, what is consent, etc, sex ed wouldn't be necessary. But they don't, and this stuff is absolutely vital information for every person to know.



Because it doesn't work. Studies have shown that teens who are taught "abstinance only" have almost as much sex as teens who are taught about birth control, and are more likely to get pregnant and STDs, because they're not using protection properly.

It does work look at the study I posted from heritage foundation about s county that started a huge don't do it campaign. Pregnancy and teen sex rates went way down

 

[granfire]

It does work look at the study I posted from heritage foundation about s county that started a huge don't do it campaign. Pregnancy and teen sex rates went way down

the campaign did not seem to liken the kids to refuse if they did though, it's a different energy all together, much more positive IMO. Don't do it is in itself not a bad idea. But it has to be in context. You tell kids what happens - and not with the intend to gross them out, because eventually we need them to go on and have sex and kids, but here is how it work, this is what can happen. The chances of X, Y or Z are So-and-so %, meaning the failure rate is such.
The not doing it becomes an informed choice, but no better or more socially acceptable than the alternative (hopefully equally informed and accordingly prepared).
Sex isn't immoral.

 

[ballen0351]

the campaign did not seem to liken the kids to refuse if they did though, it's a different energy all together, much more positive IMO. Don't do it is in itself not a bad idea. But it has to be in context. You tell kids what happens - and not with the intend to gross them out, because eventually we need them to go on and have sex and kids, but here is how it work, this is what can happen. The chances of X, Y or Z are So-and-so %, meaning the failure rate is such.
The not doing it becomes an informed choice, but no better or more socially acceptable than the alternative (hopefully equally informed and accordingly prepared).
Sex isn't immoral.

Of course you need more then "don't do it kid". Its an entire campaign but she was just brushing it off as useless and its not. It can be effective if done right. That countybseems to have ffigured something out that's working

 

[granfire]

Of course you need more then "don't do it kid". Its an entire campaign but she was just brushing it off as useless and its not. It can be effective if done right. That countybseems to have ffigured something out that's working

So in the end you agree with me.
Just say that I'm right.

Now, was this so difficult?!

 

[ballen0351]

So in the end you agree with me.
Just say that I'm right.

Now, was this so difficult?!

Or you agree with me so you say I'm right.

 

[granfire]

Or you agree with me so you say I'm right.

I said it first

Nice try, Honey...but I win this round!

 

[Steve]

Except when given choice between possible anserwers not a yes or no question. Would you prefer closer to 5 or closer to 50. You have a preference even if its slight if you thought about it for a second you could answer it. Even if the preference is very slight like you don't really care but I choose A. You refuse to answer because your answer would agree with my point that given the choice people would choose less then more if everything else were the same

You think I'm sharing my opinions, but the definition of a "false dilemma" is not my opinion. It's not subjective. Anyone other than you would look at your question and see that it is clearly a logical fallacy. You're just being obstinate and, in my opinion, it doesn't reflect well on you. I thought you genuinely didn't understand, but it's clear to me now that you're just effing with people in order to be argumentative. So, there it is. I sincerely wish it were otherwise.

And for what it's worth, I've already said that I prefer women who know what they're doing. I've also said that I think the entire foundation of the preference of some men to want a woman who has few previous partners is insecurity and a fear of comparison.

 

[Big Don]

Comprehensive sex ed. should indeed include a discussion of abstinence...and contraception, and abortion, and social skills for navigating the kinds of situations kids find themselves in where they're feeling pressured to do certain things, and a sense of the range of typical, normal adult behavior (including differing sexualities), and hygiene, and what to do in the aftermath of a sexual assault, and just a host of things.

It might also be nice to point out that if you are known for being promiscuous, people will think less of you. Male or female.

 

[Dirty Dog]

It might also be nice to point out that if you are known for being promiscuous, people will think less of you. Male or female.

SOME people will think less of you. Just as SOME people will think less of you for any number of stupid reasons.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk.

 

[ballen0351]

I said it first

Nice try, Honey...but I win this round!

Curse you and your little dog too.

 

[ballen0351]

You think I'm sharing mbpinions, but the definition of a "false dilemma" is not my opinion. It's not subjective. Anyone other than you would look at your question and see that it is clearly a logical fallacy. You're just being obstinate and, in my opinion, it doesn't reflect well on you. I thought you genuinely didn't understand, but it's clear to me now that you're just effing with people in order to be argumentative. So, there it is. I sincerely wish it were otherwise.

So ignore me then if it bothers you.

And for what it's worth, I've already said that I prefer women who know what they're doing. I've also said that I think the entire foundation of the preference of some men to want a woman who has few previous partners is insecurity and a fear of comparison.

So you do have an opinion but just a little bit ago you said you have none.

 

[ballen0351]

SOME people will think less of you. Just as SOME people will think less of you for any number of stupid reasons.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk.

Not just some.

 

[Big Don]

Not just some.

Most.

 

[granfire]

Most.

Nope, not most, just some.

 

[granfire]

Curse you and your little dog too.

[yt]aP3gzee1cps [/yt]

she's all scawed now! :lfao: